The Adept System (SB)

[ACME_Myst]

Cause honestly, my patience is wearing thin.

At the risk of getting my account kicked because of this, I'll still say it:

WTF dude? Wasn't this thread meant to evaluate and critique the current system of, let's say.. "leadership and honoured members"?

This is exactly what's going on now. Why is your patience running thin because of this?

[Bryant Cook]

At the risk of getting my account kicked because of this, I'll still say it:

WTF dude? Wasn't this thread meant to evaluate and critique the current system of, let's say.. "leadership and honoured members"?

This is exactly what's going on now. Why is your patience running thin because of this?

It's one thing to criticize or give a suggestion, it's crossing that line when you call the people who run and maintain the site an asshole, ass, ect. Show some respect people.

[Nightmare]

Look, call me an ass if you want. That's fine, and probably true.

But FUCK YOU if you honestly believe that I'm the (or one of the)

biggest problems these forums face.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Actually, I have to say, the mods have acted extremely childish in this thread.

If you feel that the line has been crossed, then lock the thread. Referring to people's complaints when they feel them to be legitimate as "whining" IS unnecessarily rude and hostile.

Lock the thread or take the higher road. But don't round up your little power posse.

[Nightmare]

Actually, I have to say, the mods have acted extremely childish in this thread.

If you feel that the line has been crossed, then lock the thread. Referring to people's complaints when they feel them to be legitimate as "whining" IS unnecessarily rude and hostile.

Lock the thread or take the higher road. But don't round up your little power posse.

Point me to a place (aside from the graph, which is an obvious joke) where I even mentioned the word "whining."

[ACME_Myst]

Look, call me an ass if you want. That's fine, and probably true.

But FUCK YOU if you honestly believe that I'm the (or one of the)

You're (generally) not an ass. Currently, however, you are being one, and I think that that's what xsockmonkeyx meant.. Your attitude right now is dismissing very relevant points (in the eyes of multiple members). If this thread is supposed to lead to a better forum and community, dismissing ideas like that IS a big problem for the site as a whole. That's not saying you don't do your modding job well, it's just referring to this thread.

[FoolofaTook]

I'm not sure I understand the whole individual bias issue. People are going to be biased whether or not they're labeled adepts or not. Do we really expect that conferring the status of adept upon somebody is going to somehow elevate their discourse beyond the normal constraints that exist on it?

I'm much more concerned about the bias that an adept system creates towards a shared status quo than about the bias of any individual poster, adept or otherwise....

Sorry to edit your post but we have like 5 issues going on in this thread already - let's not bring that one in too!

-PR

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Point me to a place (aside from the graph, which is an obvious joke)

Jokes are not always harmless, and the phrase '"Just" joking' never applies to reality.

Using sarcasm, and going at lengths to use sarcasm, smacks of teenage angst, and is clearly meant to demean and insult the other person. It is NOT what I would expect from either you as an individual, or any moderator on this site. And you should not be surprised that your insult hit.

[Belgareth]

@Peter (or any other admin): The post counts can be turned off, made only visible in profile etc. However it's not a simple task and can't be done in the admin CP easily.
It involves a certain amount of code editing or a "hack" to do it well and without issues.

It shouldn't really matter, as anyone who can't pick out good content without looking at post count is probably not worth the time anyway.

[Peter_Rotten]

• Post count issue = whining. And now it's pretty much a dead issue since since I really scoured the Admin page and finally figured out HOW to do it but Zilla is the only Admin with the ability/permssion to do it.
• People ignore me because I'm not an Adept. I call bullshit on this one.
• Mods are burnt out and some have a bad attitude. Maybe, but name some names and specifics if you have a complaint. Don't make over-arching, generic, unsupported claims.
• Revamping/New Ideas = a worthwhile discussion
• Adept program? Worth it or not = worthwhile discussion

The last two bullets are the ones that I'd like to continue discussing.

[Nightmare]

The only point I've dismissed is that getting rid of post counts will somehow reduce the elitism on this site. It won't. People are exclusive by nature. There is a social hierarchy established in every group. If it isn't done by post count, it will be done by something else. Join date, whatever. If you want to believe that creating a forum where no one has a distinction from others, and everyone is on the same field of play, will create a better environment for posting, then I say you're kidding yourself. What it will do is create a signal-to-noise ratio that is virtually insurmountable, because there will be little way to tell the difference between someone who knows what they're talking about, and someone who is spouting bullshit. If, in your mind, you make a distinction between the two, and create a subset of posters who are "worth listening to," then we're back at square one, and the point of the system is lost.

Please, tell me where I'm wrong. This is me being open to discussion.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

The only point I've dismissed is that getting rid of post counts will somehow reduce the elitism on this site. It won't. People are exclusive by nature. There is a social hierarchy established in every group. If it isn't done by post count, it will be done by something else. Join date, whatever. If you want to believe that creating a forum where no one has a distinction from others, and everyone is on the same field of play, will create a better environment for posting, then I say you're kidding yourself. What it will do is create a signal-to-noise ratio that is virtually insurmountable, because there will be little way to tell the difference between someone who knows what they're talking about, and someone who is spouting bullshit. If, in your mind, you make a distinction between the two, and create a subset of posters who are "worth listening to," then we're back at square one, and the point of the system is lost.

Please, tell me where I'm wrong. This is me being open to discussion.

I don't disagree with your point, only your method of making that point.

[Nightmare]

I don't disagree with your point, only your method of making that point.

That's fine. There are times I disagree with your methods as well, which is only natural. Not that it's any justification, but I've only been antagonistic after being called the site's biggest problem.

I strongly believe that in recent times, I've worked harder for the site and by extension, the format, than any other single person (save maybe a handful - and by a handful, I mean Bardo). Call it egotistical if you want, but it's true in my mind.
Having that work not only called into question, but outright dismissed as invalid, and told that I'm the problem, pisses me off in a way I didn't exactly expect to have to deal with.

[xsockmonkeyx]

Adam: you know that I like you, and I've told you this. But consider that you being in a position of power here may not be the best thing for the site (and there is a considerable chance that I am dead wrong). I KNOW that I cant do what you guys do, and would be terrible at it. But being this abrasive is stifling, and not what I would consider to be good qualities for a leader.

I apologize for if Ive hurt anyones feelings, that was never my intention.

I will now walk away from this thread as I feel that it would be better for everyone if I did.

Have a nice day.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

I mean, if we want to talk about anger, how do you think I feel that everyone and their mom has been credited with developing my deck? I can sympathize with anger.

But unfortunately, because you are a moderator, the mantle of leadership means not letting your anger get the best of you, I think.

It's like if the president used the State of the Union address to have at it with some random citizen. The powers aren't equal. You should not be flinging mud with random users, because there are a host of people who will listen to you and suck up just because you're a mod, and the random user has no adequate way of dealing with that.

It is, in fact, Bleweissish behavior.

[Peter_Rotten]

So, why don't we move one with something useful now?

[Parcher]

It is like you just said, "Hey guys! My secret sligh list is awesome tier one goodness. It has a 110percent game against the current DTBs! Believe me, but I won't share it." Essentially you've made a ridiculous claim with no support.

This is total bullshit and completely ignores my point. No one execpt possibly you could have inferred this from my statement when I pointedly said that the deck or decks referred to did well in tournaments. That alone would have likely gotten them listed here. But more importantly, I specifically wrote that the person or persons doing so then posted the decks themselves here on this site, and had detailed their choices and reasoning behind them in discussions here.

Since my point was missed, it was more that the relevant work was given less "weight" due to it not being in the DTB or Established forums.

Name which Adepts you are talking about. Name the dates they where made into Adepts. When was tournament success removed from the guidelines? Which Adepts have a high post count, and what exactly is a high post count - 1000 posts? 500?

Once again, tournament success has nothing to do with discussion ability.

Whatever. I'll do some of the work to put those postcounts in some context:
Nihil Credo > 500, too much to display
Tacosnape > 500, too much to display
Pinder 377
Bryant Cook 346
Der_imaginäre_Freund 262
Zach Tartell 252
SpatulaOfTheAges 249
freakish777 226
Eldariel 206
Deep6er 170
TheInfamousBearAssassin 159 (he wasn't here for how many months?)
Obfuscate Freely 117

Here's a good slice. More than half these people were made Adepts in the past year. Of the ones who weren't, two are famous for internet debate which leads to the high post count. And one doesn't have a high post count. The rest are only on there because of their post count.

Fact: Not to put too fine a point on it, for example, one had a tremendous run of tournament success, but was not promoted until recently because his post count was considered too low.

Fact: The quality over quantity arguement doesn't work either. Another nominee who overqualifes in deck, format, and Magic knowledge, with the tournament success to back it up, and post extremely well on said subjects was not voted in as an Adept recently. The required reasoning by most? Very low post count.

[Nightmare]

But consider that you being in a position of power here may not be the best thing for the site

Why? I think it's reasonable for me to ask for an explaination.

But being this abrasive is stifling, and not what I would consider to be good qualities for a leader.

Do me a favor. Go back through the thread, and find the point at which I went from being the same person I always am (that being a sarcastic realist), to an abrasive stifler of thought. Then look at the posts that came before it. Come back, and we'll discuss.

[Nightmare]

I mean, if we want to talk about anger, how do you think I feel that everyone and their mom has been credited with developing my deck? I can sympathize with anger.

But unfortunately, because you are a moderator, the mantle of leadership means not letting your anger get the best of you, I think.

It's like if the president used the State of the Union address to have at it with some random citizen. The powers aren't equal. You should not be flinging mud with random users, because there are a host of people who will listen to you and suck up just because you're a mod, and the random user has no adequate way of dealing with that.

It is, in fact, Bleweissish behavior.

Conversation = worthwhile. Moved to PMs.

[Peter_Rotten]

Here's a good slice. More than half these people were made Adepts in the past year. Of the ones who weren't, two are famous for internet debate which leads to the high post count. And one doesn't have a high post count. The rest are only on there because of their post count.

Fact: Not to put too fine a point on it, for example, one had a tremendous run of tournament success, but was not promoted until recently because his post count was considered too low.

Fact: The quality over quantity arguement doesn't work either. Another nominee who overqualifes in deck, format, and Magic knowledge, with the tournament success to back it up, and post extremely well on said subjects was not voted in as an Adept recently. The required reasoning by most? Very low post count.

You're lack of names is maddening. Which memebers/Adepts are you talking about? I look at that list and I'm not sure which Adepts were promoted in the past year! At what date was Tacosnape made an Adept? What date ObFreely? Spat? Freakish? What is the exact post count at which we judge a member worthy of Adepthood?

You points hold little weight without specifics.