So this is the hot new deck on the block?
Have any of you boys ever worked out the problems associated with burn? I don't mean the deck, I mean the burn that you find in Threshold, Goblins, etc. I'm thinking that if they can take out the lords, you can find yourself in trouble.
Here's my list I worked out with the guy who won Iserlohn (I actually had to convince him that Brainstorm is a bad carddraw in this deck oO) and took to a 11-1 (8-1 without droppers) finish in the league of mtg-forum.de
// Lands
12 [UNH] Island
3 [MM] Rishadan Port
4 [TE] Wasteland
// Creatures
4 [LRW] Silvergill Adept
4 [LRW] Merrow Reejerey
4 [7E] Lord of Atlantis
3 [EVE] Wake Thrasher
4 [SHM] Cursecatcher
2 [LRW] Shapesharer
// Spells
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [DS] AEther Vial
3 [NE] Daze
4 [SC] Stifle
3 [OD] Standstill
2 [DS] Echoing Truth
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [BOK] Threads of Disloyalty
SB: 2 [IA] Hydroblast
SB: 2 [B] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 4 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [SOK] Pithing Needle
19 lands are really ok. I for myself almost never had any problems with mana screw. Also I would play the 4th Thrasher, but I don't find any room for it.
Maybe -2 Shapesharer, +1 Port, +1 Thrasher
Sorry, but I don't get it.. I mean, why Standstill'd be a better CA than Brainstorm? We just have Vial to abuse it, and if we don't we're quite screwed.
For my liking is a bit too situational... I would simply add some more lands, some fetches and put back Brainstorm.
Otherwise Cold-eyed selkie... maybe?
Witness the man who raves at the wall
Making the shape of his questions to Heaven.
Whether the sun will fall in the evening
Will he remember the lesson of giving?
Set the controls for the heart of the sun..
You forgot the creatures that you play, and that you are an aggro deck...Originally Posted by Daeniel
Selkie is crap. Really.
Spector : that's thekind of list I defend. I just can't understand why you'd prefer to play echoing truth over rushing river and why you keep playing cursecatcher which has been a really bad card in my testings, when daze is maybe even better than force of will. In clear, remove the cursecatchers, fill the 3-of slots, exchange the echoing truths with rushing rivers and you got approximately my build (I just play mutavault, in order to be able to play standstill more easily).
I hope it amounts to much more than that.
Pre-board, the burn in Threshold isn't too huge of a concern. While they may able to use it to take out your creatures one by one, UGr Thresh only runs 8 creatures, iirc, and maybe some sideboard. All you really need to do is save your counters for those, and target either their red or green sources with your land disruption, and you come out to roughly a coin toss. Sideboard, depending on what they run, can be horrendous. Pyroclasm, Pysoblast, and REB, to name a few, really go to town on Fish.
Aside from Ldisrupt, Sygg, River Guide. It's not Crystalline Merfolk, but it's your other best protection against burn. That, and you can use it to colorwalk and it has independent Islandwalk, so it's not too bad on it's own.
Goblins...I have not got around to working this one out. I can only imagine that it's worse (if it has not already been proved so beyond reasonable doubt), since they have some burn...and alot more creatures than Thresh does. Islandwalking is difficult, if not impossible, and Goblin Piledriver is a nightmare to face (who thought that the pro-blue might be relevant one day?)
Because Standstill gives you card advantage, while Brainstorm gives you card quality.
So far, I've found Cold-Eyed to be worth inclusion, especially against anything running Islands. Independent islandwalk is good, and the chance of drawing more than one card a turn is not to be overlooked.
Team Chimera: Something is Amiss...
Cursecatcher may have been bad in your testings, but not in mine, since it's incredibly good to win counterwars or just stall removal from hitting my creatures. Additionally given the rising popularity of Eva Green in Germany and that it fills the cc1 slot quite nicely I would NOT think about replacing it anytime soon.
Also I prefer echoing truth much over rushing river, because the latter costs 3 mana and that is quite a lot. It can't remove all goblin, zombie or worm tokens from the board, where especially the last two can be so nasty. Removing multiple goyfs with rushing river costs you a land, with truth you don't have that problem. The only thing I see truth being worse in is against counterbalance, but against decks with counterbalance you can win anyways without bouncing it.
Mutavault would be a great card and i'd love to play it, but for now I only play 19 land and don't wan't to give up more blue mana oder mana denial.
Last edited by Spectör; 08-27-2008 at 09:33 AM. Reason: forgot the "not"
Yes, and...? What's that supposed to mean?
Come on, of course it's possible to abuse standstill with mutavault AND vial, but otherwise it's good only after a turn 1 vial (and then you've got to have both of the in your starting hand) or when you're "almost" already winning. In this second scenario would it really be so useful?
We can play standstill safely just with more that 1 merfolk on the board, given that the other player doesn't have a goyf/random critter in play. How often is that supposed to happen?
And on a larger scale, standstill is very situational; instead of helping some though match-up (someone said goblin?) it just makes some already good MU slightly better. So, again: is this really our only option of card advantage?
Witness the man who raves at the wall
Making the shape of his questions to Heaven.
Whether the sun will fall in the evening
Will he remember the lesson of giving?
Set the controls for the heart of the sun..
Rushing river ?
With two rushing river MD? Wow!
Still a bit situational for me. Really, it's fine if you like it, and I can see some of your points... that said, I'm still looking for a better alternative.
Other ideas? And, for curiosity's sake, why cold-eyed selkie sucks?
Witness the man who raves at the wall
Making the shape of his questions to Heaven.
Whether the sun will fall in the evening
Will he remember the lesson of giving?
Set the controls for the heart of the sun..
I have had Standstill experiences similar to Daeniel. And I was playing with Mutavaults, and Cursecatchers (to come down turn 1). I just don't see a long list of opponents that Standstill would hose.
Furthermore, Selkie has won some games on her own. When choosing which creatures to play, I always keep the Selkie until last. That way the opponent has a hard time dealing with her, and my hand is in need of replenishing, etc. It's great for winning games that are longer than you would like (like Standstill can) only it has all the advantages of being a creature, and a Merfolk. I have played both with and against this deck a great number of times now, and I am fairly pleased with the effect the Selkie has on games.
One final note, Rushing River with 19 lands, 4 of which are Wastelands, seems a tad scary. But in my 21 land version, I will be testing it. 3-mana means it is better against Counterbalance, a major target.
Last edited by Finn; 08-27-2008 at 11:29 AM. Reason: More on this thought
The sacrificing part of rushing river is not mandatory. Everybody speaks as if it was. As for myself I play 22 lands in my current build.
Mutavault seems to be the only solution against Piledriver.
When Goblins resolve a first turn vial, there is not out against the piledriver, because we can't counter him anymore.
In my opinion, in a metagame with a lot of goblins, no mono Blue merfolk or at least with mutavaults with a single chance to block the piledriver.
Otherwise, UW merfolk with swords main or in the board to fight them.
Any other solutions or experiences from anyone?
I like to play this deck in the german legacy championships next sunday, and I am not sure about the perfect list for a completly open field and metagame.
The main problem with pilly is not as an attacker but as a blocker. As a attacker we calm him down with propaganda.
Which helps you against things like Goyf too, which can occasionally steal a Thresh game from you. However, I don't think StP is going to be enough to swing the Goblins match in your favor. IIRC, it's one of those matches that you have to just let go in order to focus on making the good ones better. Also, running a UW manabase opens you up to mana disruption from Goblins.
Or that (Propaganda). That's probably one of your best shots at the Goblins matchup. Now you just need a way to keep Piledriver from blocking your Wake Thrashers (Merfolk Piledrivers anyone?).
Team Chimera: Something is Amiss...
Tidal Warrior + Lord of Atlantis can do the job. Hardly easy to pull off, though.
Either that or Sygg.
(Interestingly, I've made two copies of Sygg work reasonably well alongside maindeck B2B: 4 Flooded Strand and 2 Plains were enough to consistently cast it when needed. It becomes tough to drop it with 1W open, but getting to four lands is not easy in the first place.
I want to try now 3 Sygg by running 1 Plains and 1 Tundra to fetch with the Deltas. Losing one land to your own B2B seems acceptable.)
YOU'RE GIVING ME A TIME MACHINE IN ORDER TO TREAT MY SLEEP DISORDER.
True.
I've been running between 2-3 Sygg maindeck, thought not with B2B main. It's a good card to include. The color protection gives you a little more of a chance against decks that aren't running islands (color walk your Wake Thrasher right through). He also works nicely with Wake Thrasher in pumping him up. EOT, just tap as many lands as you can and grant color protection, and on your untap steps he gets an extra +2/+2 at least.
Team Chimera: Something is Amiss...
I wouldn't do that unless you're completely unafraid of removal. The most annoying thing about playing Sygg is that it completely invalidates any removal I'm holding.
I'd recommend Sygg though, because at worst he draws removal immediately, and if he sticks around, he'll give blocking tricks, and protect from whatever removal you're scared of.
I would seriously consider using Sygg if he (with STP included) significantly improves the Red Thresh and Goblins matchups. Something like this perhaps?
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Wake Thrasher
2 Sygg, River Guide
2 Stifle
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
4 Wasteland
2 Rishadan Port
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
3 Island
1 Plains
This version seeks to keep much of the mana denial that has worked for us up until now. It gains some protection in Sygg and STP. It loses the excellent mana base in exchange for one that is designed to work with Sygg. It also loses some card advantage in favor of more robust cards. It should have a much stronger game against Threshold, especially post-board. I am not sure about Goblins, though. I can't stand rickety manabases. And now Blood Moon has a good chance of f@cking you.
How does Dance of Many look to you guys? It can copy one of your own quality Merfolk, an opposing goblin, or an opposing 'goyf. If you do play UW, you could play Wanderwine hub.
Losing two blue a turn is not something you want to do, even if you have Aether Vial out. If you really want to copy creatures, you can play Shapesharer.
You could play Wanderwine Hub, but what would you take out? Tundra is by far the superior choice. You can't fetch for the Hub, so it would be replacing a basic, which opens you up even more to land disruption.
Team Chimera: Something is Amiss...
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