[Deck] Fetchland Tendrils

[Omega]

Even knowing you are going to win next turn?

I havent been able to make a lethal Tendril yet... Can you put up an example? Fictional or not, it doesn't matter. Just for me to get an idea

Robert

[rsaunder]

Land, d. rit, LED, lotus petal, SDT, doomsday, anything in hand.

Play land, d. rit.
Play and sac petal for X.
Use BBB to cast DDay for (meditate, l.petal, d. rit, d. rit, tendrils)
Use the B from the petal to cast SDT
Play LED
Tap SDT and on the stack pop LED for UUU discarding your last card.
Cast meditate
cast petal, d. rit, d. rit for BBBBB floating
cast SDT with B
Draw off top and draw tendrils with BBBB floating
tendrils for 20, Win.

[emidln]

Even knowing you are going to win next turn?

I havent been able to make a lethal Tendril yet... Can you put up an example? Fictional or not, it doesn't matter. Just for me to get an idea

Robert

Read the doomsday section in my (still not finished because I'm a lazy bum) primer. I believe there is a copy on mtgsal. Look for "Previous Level Doomsday".

[m03]

second example
turn 2 (2land) eot mystical tutor for a second dark ritual.
turn 3, 3 lands, double ritual (5 mana + 2 mana untap) duress (4) dday (1) put helm, sensei, sensei, grapeshot and a duress or lotus petal if you dont have the Red mana.

Wouldn't it be better to cast Duress first to both gather information, and make sure that your Rituals aren't at risk of being countered.

[Omega]

uhmm yes, you are absolutly right!

Robert

[rsaunder]

uhmm yes, you are absolutly right!

Robert

If your opponent counters your rits, then you know you've won the game because your opponent doesnt know how to play against combo.

[Dark_Cynic87]

Regardless, you still play Duress before your rituals, as you never want to assume you are playing against retards. Even if it's true.

[rsaunder]

Regardless, you still play Duress before your rituals, as you never want to assume you are playing against retards. Even if it's true.

If I have the mana available before using a rit, then yeah, i will. But seriously, I want my opponents to waste their counters on my rits.

[Dark_Cynic87]

I suppose it depends on what you are playing against as well. IDK, I don't really go off unprotected unless I'm playing against non-blue decks, and I'll only try if I have to.

In other news, I played a small test session today and beat Ichorid 2-0. Again. Beat UGr Thresh 2-0, although he made a play error. I probably shouldn't have won. Oh well, play mistakes ftw!

Game 1: Chanted turn 1 and turn 2 going off turn 4 against Ichorid for 10x storm-counted Tendrils for a kill of 22. He was a little ticked.

Game 2: Can't remember a lot about this other than Extirpating his Therapies as he was about to rape my hand hardcore. I had an opening hand of triple-LED and he therapy'ed naming chant. He saw my triple LED, and passed the turn. I Brainstorm away 2 of my LEDs and he doesn't even realize it. Waddadouche. Anyway, I pass the turn, he drops a PImp and tosses his hand and then flashes back Therapy on LED. I reveal a grip with a single one and he goes "ah. Brainstorm." Duh. Anyway, drew into my other LED, Pondered into a Top and went for the infinite combo w/ Top and Helm into Brain Freeze because...I like irony.

I also did this because he was taunting me with the fact that if I didn't win that turn he was going to DR his Ancestor's Chosen. I told him that if he got another turn he could gain infinite life and I'd still whip his ass. He laughed at me, so I went off without giving him the chance to gain the life and milled his cocky ass into oblivion. And I was impressed. After the game, he was STILL cocky. Can you believe that? Jesus.

I want Extirpate MD'ed. It serves my meta and I'm going to find room somehow.

I tested Thresh also, and it did worse. Just sayin'...UGr Thresh.

Pce,

--DC

Edit:

Here's my current list:

1x Tendrils
1x IGG
4x D-Day
1x 'Pate
1x K. Grip
4x Duress
4x Chant
1x Bargain
1x Meditate
4x Ponder
4x Brainstorm
4x SDT
4x M. Tutor
1x Petal
1x C. Rit
4x LED
4x D. Rit

1x Swamp
2x Island
1x Scrub
1x Trop
1x Volcanic
1x Tundra
1x USea
4x Stand
4x Delta

Sideboard is being worked on with teh superxsecret TecH...will post after testing and what-not. Members of Storm Boards can go there for a heads up on what is under discussion. Teh rest of you can either wait or sign up!

Pce, (again)

--DC

[rsaunder]

So everyone, tell me your thoughts on the new draw spell that has gotten all the TES players all giddy: Ad Nauseum. I don't think it has much of a role here, as we're more tutor based and contract fulfills the role of "obscenely powerful draw with DDay" for less mana. Perhaps this is the card I can play as a 1-of over IT/IGG MB to get a little speed where we need it.

Thoughts? Questions?

[Brehn]

It's not even good as a 1-of. It doesn't speed up the deck, because with the current manabase you can't cast it before turn 3 and you can't win the same turn you cast it. And winning on turn 4 is not exactly fast.

So obviously you can't really use it as a storm engine. And as a setup card, it costs 3BB. What does Doomsday usually cost?
- UBBB with 2 cards + Brainstorm + LED
- 1UBBB with 2 cards + Top or Brainstorm
- 2UBBB with Top or Meditate
- 2UUBBB with Ponder
Usually, when you're able to cast Ad Nauseam, you should be also able to cast Doomsday. So you'd wish that this Ad Nauseam in your hand was Doomsday. And you end up replacing it with Doomsday.

I can only see one application: as an end-of-turn hand refill spell against slow discard decks, out of the sideboard. Disadvantage: it costs 5, which is not too good against discard decks with mana denial, e. g. Eva Green or Pox. All in all, it's too narrow.

[jegger]

If you think that this card is a not so good for FT, you never test it.
Why do you continue to play a deck strictly inferior? I'm trying a verson more oriented to TES with Burning Wish, Rite of Flame and in SB the classic bomb of TES: Diminishing Returns, IGG,...

But I've also changed FT because I like more the game style of this deck. This is the result:

4x polluted delta
2x flooded strand
1x bloodstained mire
2x island
2x swamp
1x underground sea

4x dark ritual
4x cabal ritual
4x lotus petal
4x LED
4x chrome mox

4x brainstorm
3x ponder
4x infernal tutor
4x mystical tutor
4x ad nauseum
4x duress
2x thoughtseize
1x ToA
1x wipe away
1x IGG

just try!

Usually if you play Ad nauseum also with 0 mana in pool you win. I understand that I'm OT and this deck is very different from original FT, but try it: consistent, fast, more simple to play: no grave hate, no denial hate and a costant win on turn 2-3. In sb all solution to the classic hate like counterbalance, extirpate, mage,...with perhaps the addon of a third color.

I like more the elegance of old FT game style, but this deck is stronger.
I presume they will bann this card early.

[Dark_Cynic87]

I refuse to play any combo list that doesn't include at least 4x Chant. I'm more comfortable with Chants and then discard as well. This has a disappointing 2x Thoughtseize (wtf? Change it to Duress, the lifeloss is incredibly relevant, and if it wins turn 2-3, I guarantee that you will NOT need to make them discard a creature--I don't understand how people refuse to acknowledge this). I need to see either 4 Duress or 4x Chant, but I'd be happiest seeing both. Even a 4/2 split (I'd be happiest to see a 4/3 split, respectively, though). Unprotected can just screw you. You AdN, lose 15 life, and then they Chant. Or Lightning Bolt and Fireblast you. Or Shrapnel Blast you. Or WHATEVER. It sux, and I refuse. I play against DS a lot, Ichorid a lot, and Spring Tide a lot. To reflect a bit on these, I see Chalice @ 1/0 quite often, get hit with a 6-card discard suite (4x Therapy/2x Unmask) from the damn Ichorid build, and Spring Tide goes off turn 3 AND runs FoW. Right...No protection on a game-by-game consistancy means I'll lose.

Pce,

--DC

[jegger]

Is the read so difficult?

...
4x duress
...

thanks for your careful reading.

[Dark_Cynic87]

Ok, my bad. Jeez.

Aside from that, no Chant. Thanks for addressing the issues at hand.

Chant >>>>>>>>>>>>> 4 Duress 2 Thoughtseize.

And C. Mox is serious Card Disadvantage.

Pce,

--DC

[Benie Bederios]

Ok, my bad. Jeez.

Aside from that, no Chant. Thanks for addressing the issues at hand.

Chant >>>>>>>>>>>>> 4 Duress 2 Thoughtseize.

Not really. Have you ever noted Vintage combo decks don't play Chant. Ever wondered why? Ill-Gotten Gains forces Legacy combo decks to Chant, but the difference is quite small. Where Chant can stop multiple cards and can force opponents to waste resources to counter it. Discard can hit other cards except counters, like Chalice or Trinisphere.

And C. Mox is serious Card Disadvantage.

Yeah it's a really bad card, That's the reason it's played in TES, SI, Belcher and Dragon Stompy, all bad decks because they change cardadvantage in very fast wins, nobody would do that in there right mind.

With a carddraw mechanism like Ad Nauseum you have cards enough to pitch. Please test a list before you say it is bad, or at least read it well. That said the list plays quite well, but I would play more lands. I don't know wich slots to change though. You could go -1 Chrome Mox, -1 Ponder +2 Lands.

BB

[jegger]

Thanks Benie Bederios, you understand all.

Yeah, sometimes I want more lands, I think to increase the number of them, perhaps I cut 1x Chrome because often it is useful only after I play AD Nauseum (AN from now for abbreviation).

My last changes:
-1 swamp +1 tropical island for K.Grip in SB.
-1 ad nauseum +1 ponder

I cut swamp instead of island because I want to be very solid against moon effect and I cut AN only because the only its problem is reveal another one during the process. We have 8 tutor + 3 AN + 8 manipulation to search it. I presume is enough.

[Brehn]

I haven't tested the list yet, but I'm curious: is this better than DDFT? And why?

You've cut protection and setup to build a manabase that supports Ad Nauseam. With the cutting of setup (Top) you've reduced your chances to finding solutions postboard. Your storm engine costs 5 mana as opposed to the 5-7 mana of Doomsday, not too much of an improvement. The only real benefit that you've mentioned is that you're killing turn 2-3 as opposed to DDFT's turn 3-4. But I wouldn't give up protection and consistency just for that.

Have you tested against Threshold and Eva Green? I can see the list struggling in both matchups.

Edit: also, how does this list play against Landstill? An advantage of DDFT was always that it could wait until it was at 4-5 life, then go off. That's not possible anymore with AN, how does this change the matchup?
And in general: how much life do you need to guarantee (~85%) a win after a resolved AN with empty pool?

[Omega]

"TES, SI, Belcher and Dragon Stompy, all bad decks"

yea, all bad decks.

SI, Belcher never really were a problem. Minimum of hate, in other words a decent legacy makes you win against them. Moreover, have you ever notice how much they mulligan in a tournament? Sure they beat unprepared deck, but i never saw them do anything, except goldfishing alone and asking opponent once in a while if they are going to counter them

TES : More skill intense, good combo overall, that can win through counters.

Dragon stompy : Explosive or completly unlucky. I wouldnt regard this deck as "very good", but simply as a good deck

You have to be able to turn the C. Mox into speed advantage, or else it is useless. Your deck runs Ad Nauseum. The chrome mox can be useful to help you get the mana, so it is a good choice to include them

Robert

[emidln]

If the card does become popular, Chant will become increasingly relevant. I've said this time and again, but Chant and Duress are different types of protection. Chant provides protection against any kind of instant-speed hate and is only affected by hard counters. Duress (Thoughtseize making you lose 2 life is terrible.) might take a Force of Will letting AdN resolve, but if an opponent is still holding stifle/lightning bolt/etc you've essentially lost the game. If AdN stays legal and sees play (which is a big if because, in my testing, the card just isn't good against decks that play both countermagic and threats (the deck we know as Threshold) or disruption and threats (the decks we know as Dragon Stompy (chalice of the void), Suicide Black (heavy discard), Eva Green (heavy discard), Survival (heavy discard, gaddock teeg, new white creature), and Aggro Loam (chalice of the void)) you'll find an upsurge in UGR Thrash-type decks. That doesn't actually leave a whole lot of matchups where it's good. I've yet to see a solid plan for attacking UWb or UWbg Landstill (especially postboard).