[Discussion] Control Versus Ichorid

[Wiw]

So, I was feeling the need to learn how blue-based control decks might prepare for ichorid. Green, White, and Black are frequently splashed so cards of those colors that would actually make an appearance in a control deck (so not like Mogg Fanatic or elephant grass) would make for helpful suggestions

I was thinking Propaganda, Crypt, Echoing Truth, and Engineered Explosives aren't terrible though they may be underwhelming or too slow.

So how do ya'll keep ichorid at bay?

[freakish777]

Most control decks these days are splashing at least one color.

If you're a diehard Mono Blue Control player, 4 Tormod's Crypt in the board is a necessity.

Further, I'd imagine you'd already want to be running Powder Keg and Vedalken Shackles in the main. Keeping Keg on zero keeps them from comboing you temporarily. Stealing Narcos in their draw step when they dredge them before they can sac them to Therapy/Dread Return gives you a blocker for a turn against Ichorid (forcing them to remove another black creature the next turn).

Lastly, if you have Force of Will in your opener, Force whatever discard outlet they play on turn 1 to slow them down.

Propaganda out of the board is fairly strong, but it's not particularly good against other matches, and even against Ichorid they can still draw Chain of Vapor, and resolve it after Therapying your hand to ensure they resolve it (so don't just board 4 and think, hey this is my Silver Bullet, because it isn't a silver bullet).

Sadly MUC has an abysmal match against Ichorid and it doesn't get much better post board, so if beating Ichorid is a concern, consider splashing other colors.

[Wiw]

yep you're right, Ichorid typically destroys MUC. But if you're playing a control deck in a similar fashion with a splashed color, like lets say Blue/White Control Your Soul or landstill, or some variety of coutner-aggro, what "control" card is going to save you against ichorid?

[Forbiddian]

Swords slows them up a lot.

Crypt, Swords, and Force of Will, Keg, Stifle, and Engineered Explosives can often buy you one turn each. If you have them, Disrupt, Daze, etc. are good choices. It's really uphill, though, don't expect to win very many. Basically try to get your kill condition out ASAP and go to town. You can't afford to dick around, even though a lot of your cards are effective, Ichorid can come back the next turn with more.

One trick is to pay 3 to make morphling into a 6/0. It dies, removing the Bridges.

[DeathwingZERO]

When playing MUC, I actually didn't have much of a hard time at all dealing with Ichorid. Typically THEY are the ones on the clock, namely Powder Keg on turn 2 and Propaganda turn 3 and beyond. Shackles hitting the table once Propaganda resolves is also handy, being able to steal zombie tokens they make (or Imps, etc) to kill off their Ichorid recursion makes for a very nice stall.

I personally don't think Crypt is an absolute necessity vs Ichorid, though I'd probably play 3 just for overall metagame choices. I really don't see the matchup getting any better than Keg -> Propaganda and just keep digging for more.

The only thing I'd really want Crypt for is early amazing dredges. Getting rid of 2 or more of Ichorid or Bridges early on is enough of a cripple effect, but don't rely on it to be game sealing.

EDIT: And ya, as a last resort taking down one of your own Morphlings isn't a bad idea.

[Finn]

If you guys have an active Morphling, shouldn't the game be over? I mean you are on, what, turn 6 atleast? Powder Keg is the single best mainboard card, so I would think it would be a staple.

[DeathwingZERO]

An active Morphling is actually not very good against a savagely huge Grave-Troll, which I've faced a few times in testing.

However, with my build's 1 of Keiga, if I can get to him, it'll seal the deal guaranteed against the big pink guy.

[Forbiddian]

If you counter his discard on turn 1, he goes to 5 cards (if on the play).

Draw to 6 on his turn 3.
Draw to 7 on his turn 4.
Draw to 8 + discard on turn 5.
Dredge goes off turn 6, maybe they hit two bridges and an Ichorid or Narco, more than enough to overrun you. If they only hit one bridge, just race with Morphling (esp if you can get Shackles or a Keg).

It's not the BEST situation, but it happens enough that it's worth mentioning. Often you can untap for a zombie blocker and only pay 1U to kill your Phling. Note that if you block Ichorid, their Ichorid dies at the same time, so they get zombie tokens from the Ichorid death before bridge can be removed.


A lot of times, you'll do this after you swing in for 5 or you'll do it at their draw phase if you see a lot of Bridges or Therapies + Narcomoebas.

[kirdape3]

Bluntly speaking, I'm not going to even bother playing the first discard outlet if I know you're monoblue. There's basically no chance in hell that I can possibly lose game 1 if I get anything going whatsoever without them having a card like Propaganda, so I'm going to be very conservative, draw to 8 on turn 2, discard my Stinkweed Imp, and go from there.

Also, Dread Return doesn't go for the combo in this case. It goes explicitly for a Grave-Troll, because they can't do anything about that guy if you've done your job properly.

[freakish777]

yep you're right, Ichorid typically destroys MUC. But if you're playing a control deck in a similar fashion with a splashed color, like lets say Blue/White Control Your Soul or landstill, or some variety of coutner-aggro, what "control" card is going to save you against ichorid?

Black offers Extirpate/Leyline/Yxilid Jailer out of the board, and gives you access to cards like Innocent Blood, Smother, Shriekmaw, Damnation, Thoughtseize, Psychatog, and Duress pre-board (obviously not all of them) against decks that aren't ichorid.