[Deck] TES - The EPIC Storm

[Di]

Yes. Now shut the hell up. At least it still hits Counterbalance and Force of Will. :-/ Unless you want to go with blind Cabal Therapies all day long, Duress is the best substitute for Thoughtseize.

[rsaunder]

Yes. Now shut the hell up. At least it still hits Counterbalance and Force of Will. :-/ Unless you want to go with blind Cabal Therapies all day long, Duress is the best substitute for Thoughtseize.

Hoe often do you really deal with MM/Teeg game 1? And besides, it's not like you don't have outs to it *coughburningwishcough*. Duress>Thoughtseize in the initial 60.

EDIT: Unless you see enough survival to worry about teeg game 1, it's not worth the two life lost against everything else. amiright?

[Di]

Hoe often do you really deal with MM/Teeg game 1? And besides, it's not like you don't have outs to it *coughburningwishcough*. Duress>Thoughtseize in the initial 60.

EDIT: Unless you see enough survival to worry about teeg game 1, it's not worth the two life lost against everything else. amiright?

That's why I'm arguing for Duress. Srsly, there's a random 1-of Teeg in a handful of Survival decks maindeck. The odds of people opening him and playing him turn 2 are slim. Then again, as Bryant knows, I happen to open him every single game against him. Still, Duress is fine. If you're playing against a deck with Gaddock Teeg, you should be winning before then. And if not winning, at least Chanting during the upkeep, and winning the following turn. If you can't do that, then you probably suck.

[Bryant Cook]

That's why I'm arguing for Duress. Srsly, there's a random 1-of Teeg in a handful of Survival decks maindeck. The odds of people opening him and playing him turn 2 are slim. Then again, as Bryant knows, I happen to open him every single game against him. Still, Duress is fine. If you're playing against a deck with Gaddock Teeg, you should be winning before then. And if not winning, at least Chanting during the upkeep, and winning the following turn. If you can't do that, then you probably suck.

If this is the case, why even play a protection spell? At this point something else would be better. Probably add in more acceleration. Although, I don't want to add in Cabal Rituals or SSG's. It'd have to be something cheaper. I want to keep the casting cost of the deck lower.

I could add Xantid Swarm back in if I still wanted protection that doesn't cause lifeloss...Just a random thought.

[rsaunder]

Duress is excellent though. It's a proactive solution to counterbalance and gets rid of forces if you're going with an AdN win. Was thoughtseize seriously just in there to deal with mage/teeg?

[Bryant Cook]

Duress is excellent though. It's a proactive solution to counterbalance and gets rid of forces if you're going with an AdN win. Was thoughtseize seriously just in there to deal with mage/teeg?

I know you haven't played in awhile, however, Teeg is a serious problem. I'm thinking about puttting an additional Chrome Mox and Grapeshot in these slots. Grapeshot is a answer to creatures and a win-condition. Now much easier to have a high storm with Ad Nauseum.

[rsaunder]

I'm getting back into it! And if that's the case, that creatures are that bad for you, I'd still probably advise grapeshot, although you do lack a good way to find it outside of comboing out which you have trouble doing if something's already preventing AdN.

Honestly, how much of a difference has thoughtseize been making for you? Like, does running 2x honestly help in those situations where you need it?

[Windux]

I run Duress atm, too. Just to test how AdN works, here is my testing list:

4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
1 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Forbidden Orchard
4 Orim’s Chant
4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame
4 Lion’s Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Burning Wish
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Chrome Mox
3 Duress
2 Spirit Guide / 2 Cabal Ritual
1 Cruel Bargain
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
3 AdN
1 Tendrils of Agony

SB:1 Diminishing Returns
SB:1 Ill-Gotten Gains
SB:1 Cleanfall
SB:1 Tendrils of Agony
SB:1 Empty the Warrens
SB:1 Grapeshot
SB:3 Pyroblast
SB:3 Shattering Spree
SB:3 Vexing Shusher

I don't know anything better then Cabal Ritual. Should I cut the SSG for the Rituals? I like the Guides, because you need red, Both "just" adds 1 more mana to your pool.
Manamorphose is just worse as a random 0cc Cantrip, but at least it fixes.

[Aj-capra]

This is my list now

// Lands
4 [8E] City of Brass
4 [WL] Gemstone Mine
1 [VI] Undiscovered Paradise
1 [CHK] Forbidden Orchard

// Creatures
2 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide

// Spells
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
2 [TO] Cabal Ritual
3 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
2 [SHM] Manamorphose
4 [PS] Orim's Chant
4 [CS] Rite of Flame
4 [MM] Dark Ritual
2 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [CST] Brainstorm
3 [LRW] Ponder
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
4 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
2 [LRW] Thoughtseize

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 2 [SHM] Vexing Shusher
SB: 1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 [AL] Diminishing Returns
SB: 1 [CHK] Cleanfall
SB: 2 [IA] Pyroblast
SB: 1 [TSP] Grapeshot
SB: 2 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 1 [DS] Echoing Ruin
SB: 1 [PT] Pyroclasm
SB: 1 [CS] Deathmark

I play MD two manamorphose because they're a good ctrip and switch easy my mana.
In my SB I play echoing ruin versus chalice of the void and deathmark versus gaddok teeg.
I think to play - 2ssg + 1 chrome mox + 1 cabal ritual, but I must testing this solution.
Pyroclasm is necessary in my metagame because there're a lot of aggro

[GreenOne]

I run Duress atm, too. Just to test how AdN works, here is my testing list:
1 Cruel Bargain

I don't get the 1xBargain, especially in combination with 3 Ad Nauseam.
The random drawing it and playing it will screw your Ad Nauseam Plans, and I doubt you are going to fetch it with hellbent IT.

Shouldn't it be some acceleration piece?

[Dark_Cynic87]

Just built and played non-AdN TES for the first time; lost to FDDT 2-0, beat Ichorid 2-1, with me winning turn one game one, him turn 1 game 2 and me turn 2 game 3. Quickest. Match. Ever. Sick. I pulled game 3 out of my ass, honestly. It's a fun deck, but FDDT has way more ability to screw this over due to the ease of finding Chant. Chant in response to burning wish=bad news for combo turn...You all knew this, but I'm just learning how to play it. It's a lot easier to play than FDDT, and way more explosive. I like it.

Pce,

--DC

EDIT::: I know this topic has probably been beaten to death, but is there any way to find chants easier? They are pretty important for me in my meta, and when I play this I seem to get screwed without them...I'm sure it's been talked about, but I'm asking again: Is there any way to squeeze some amount of Mystical Tutors into the list? I'm gonna work on it.

Also, why are you playing more than one, two at the most of Ad Nauseam? 4 seems bad, and 3 seems pretty horrible as well...You can IT for it and whatnot...I think figuring out how to use it will be the biggest thing.

[GreenOne]

If I had to play M. Tutor in a TES list, I'd play this.

// Lands
4 [CH] City of Brass
4 [TSB] Gemstone Mine
1 [VI] Undiscovered Paradise
1 [OD] Tarnished Citadel

// Creatures
4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide

// Spells
4 [CS] Rite of Flame
1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
1 [6E] Diminishing Returns
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [TE] Dark Ritual
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [PS] Orim's Chant
4 [LRW] Ponder
1 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
2 [6E] Mystical Tutor

More than 2 Mysticals is really too much sucky.
In some metas you can also try something like
-1 Ponder/Chrome Mox
+1 Draw4/ETW

[Maagler]

If I had to play M. Tutor in a TES list, I'd play this.

// Lands
4 [CH] City of Brass
4 [TSB] Gemstone Mine
1 [VI] Undiscovered Paradise
1 [OD] Tarnished Citadel

// Creatures
4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide

// Spells
4 [CS] Rite of Flame
1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
1 [6E] Diminishing Returns
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [TE] Dark Ritual
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [PS] Orim's Chant
4 [LRW] Ponder
1 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
2 [6E] Mystical Tutor

More than 2 Mysticals is really too much sucky.
In some metas you can also try something like
-1 Ponder/Chrome Mox
+1 Draw4/ETW

Tarnished Citadel seems anisynergetic with ad nauseam. Have you ever had a problem with too much lifeloss from this?

[myselves]

Is AdN realy worth cutting EtW and Draw4?
I agree that it's a bomb, but EtW or Draw4 are also great.
But compared to those two you could have some disadvantages against EvaGreen/Deadguy/Pox and so on, also EtW shines vs. ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh in most cases.

I haven't tested Landstill enough yet, but I assume that resolving AdN could be more difficult than Draw4 and you don't give the opponent the opportunity for some nearly epic trades.

So where is AdN superior compared to the good old cards?

[Dark_Cynic87]

-1 Tarnished Citadel
+1 Forbidden Orchard

Fixt.

That list looks decent, might give that a go.

Pce,

--DC

actually, how about this:

// Lands
4 [CH] City of Brass
4 [TSB] Gemstone Mine
1 [VI] Undiscovered Paradise
1 [COK? I quit during this block; it sucked...] Forbidden Orchard

// Creatures
2 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide

// Spells
4 [CS] Rite of Flame
2 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
1 [TS] Empty the Warrens
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [TE] Dark Ritual
2 [SHM] Manamorphose
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
3 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [PS] Orim's Chant
4 [LRW] Ponder
1 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
2 [6E] Mystical Tutor

I like manamorphose's ability to free cantrip into what you just tutored for, fixing mana and being a "free" +1 on storm. One more thing, 4x Chrome Mox seems silly. I get it's a free storm count without losing life to AdN, but is 4 really reliable? It's horrible card disadvantage. I rarely *WANT* to get rid of something out of my hand...Maybe I'm wrong.

Also, is the semi-synergistic play of Seething Song-->Manamorphose-->AdN something to at least look at? Maybe that is just another deck...or horrible. That could be it (teh OMG I broke teh 4mat!!!!!!11!!one1!).

It's my contention that you don't need the Draw-Xs other than Ad Nauseam with the 2x Tutors, and 2x IGG is the most reliable way of going off other than AdN. Graveyard hate whatevah. Ad Nauseam through that, and any other time IGG, you still have burning wish to get you the draw-7 if you are in a very desperate situation...I just hate that card, and frankly, if there's any way at all, I'm not using it. I'll leave it in my sideboard, but other than that it can GTFO.

On a lighter note, I like the way this list looks. Now, if it just WORKS...

Pce,

--DC

Second Edit: Damn, no Duress...how would I squeeze THOSE in?

[Bryant Cook]

Do we really need all of these decklists? Let's be logical here. Just post your changes.

Manamorphose- You're running this over Moxen, terrible idea. Not to mention it sucks with Ad Nauseum compared to a Mox, which actually adds mana. Ad Nauseum should also be a 3-4 of. 1-2 seems weak.

Mystical Tutor- What is this good with? It finds Chants or your singleton Nauseum. Just play more protection and more Nauseums. This way you cut away the time tutor takes away.

Ill-Gotten Gains- Two is one too many. You only need one to get to storm 10.

ETW+Returns- These should be pushed to the SB for Nauseum. You don't really need them anymore maindeck. Still very solid wish targets.

Whoever was playing a Draw 4 - Awful with Nauseum, just play another AdN.

Duress vs. Thoughtsieze - I prefer Thoughtsieze, I haven't found the two life to be crucial at all in my testing. Being able to take creatures is huge.

...I think that's all for now.

[GoldenCid]

Is ad nausseam really better than plunge into darkness??

[J.V.]

Is ad nausseam really better than plunge into darkness??

Lets think about our posts before posting... Plunge into darkness is at best a bad tutor that costs you X life. Ad Nauseam a game breaking spell that creates ridiculous card advantage (for the most part it wins you the game immediately) for x life. so yes Ad Nauseam REALLY IS better than Plunge into Darkness

[Bryant Cook]

Is ad nausseam really better than plunge into darkness??

I'm not sure if this is a joke or not. I'll answer seriously. Nauseum allows you to draw 10-15 cards for 5 mana and X life where X is the amount of life payed. Plunge into Darkness puts one card into your hand out of X where X is the life you pay.

[Omega]

but one has a CC of 5 and the other of 2, if it is relevant :O

Robert