Has anyone tested Rafiq yet? He seems obscenely powerful to me, breaking almost every standstill you might find yourself in, and turning all your dudes (one at a time, of course) into full on powerhouse threats, rather than decently size beaters, during the lategame.
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
Referring to the art on Stasis:
Haha, busted, he's only 3/3. That makes him shabby. Srsly.
Team SPOD
<Der_imaginäre_Freund> props:
Adan for being the NQG God (drawer)
I no longer support rafiq he can be bolted, which he couldnt when he was spoiled. This significantly lowers his powerlevel. He should not be played.
I c h o r i d - my anti blue
Manaless Ichorid- At least its cheeper than standard.
We admit for the sake of the exercise that following is true:
Landstill > Fromat
Non-Basic Hate > Landstill
Basics > Non-Basic Hate
We can therefore logically conlude that
Basics > Format
yeah, he kinda blows now with 3 toughness
Are you really going to play Rafiq before you can protect him with CounterTop or other permission?
Rafiq is not going to be played in Threshold since he sucks and costs 10 Bucks (WTF on that).
He dies to everything while Mystic Enforcer is somehow proof against every non-Swords to Plowshares removal (Big Game Hunter, Shriekmaw, Ghastly Demise, Smother, Bolt, Flametounge Kavu can't harm him unlike Rafiq. And Enforcer is hardly taken down by Masticore).
That's why it's very simple to win when you have CB-Top out since he is then resistent to Swords to Plowshares and then virtually has "Shroud" printed on it. Having a Simic Sky Swallower for 4 Mana is broken.
Team SPOD
<Der_imaginäre_Freund> props:
Adan for being the NQG God (drawer)
Tarmogoyf dies to all of those forms of removal (depending on how many cards are in the GY) yet many people play it in their deck. Rafiq will NOT die to Smother, however, since its cmc is 4.
Attacking every turn is hardly the best use of Rafiq anyway. I would attack with Goose instead, making it a 4/4 double-striker with shroud. Once Enforcer is on the board he becomes a 7/7 flying pro-black double-striker, hardly anything to sneeze at. One attacking Enforcer with Rafiq in play is worth more damage than an Enforcer and Goyf attacking together. The difference is that the Enforcer has evasion.
Who plays Smother? Seriously. The little amount of Smother should be sufficient for us to not take account of it when choosing creatures.
About Rafiq. Tarmogoyf should never die to a signe lighting bolt. If it does, i have no idea what you are doing. I played many times 0/1 Goyfs in Tournaments. But that's because i knew there was no threat. If you suspect oppoenent to have bolt, you should wait
In your example, it requires you having 2 creature. Id rather have the enforcer FTW. I wouldnt play a deck with both Rafiq and Mystic Enfocer
Robert
Fair enough. I'm not saying I'd lose a Goyf to a bolt, I'm just saying that Goyf is nearly as vulnerable as Rafiq when it comes to removal. The guy above said that Enforcer is great because he's pro-black and CounterTop handles a StP... yet a Bolt is just as easy to deal with as StP with that same CunterTop - you are countering two 1cc spells. I'm not saying Rafiq will improve the deck, I'm just saying it's at least worth some testing. He's a good attacker all by himself - my point was that he has synergy with the deck's other beaters too.
In any case, this is all academic, the real test is to put him in a deck and see how he fares in the meta.
You shouldn't be playing him in addition to other beaters. Getting more and more creatures in the deck, specially since they are all aggresive, not utility or card advantage producers, you lose flexibility. By losing flexibility, you lose games. Therefore, you must see if it deserves to be in the spot of a creature that is as costly, can handle Goyfs by itself in many cases, won't get removed to anything other than STP and won't get blocked by anything other than Faerie Stompy's creatures or a copy of itself.
You can't say surviving to burn is not a good reason tu run a card. Goyf Sligh is running rampant everywhere and UGr Thresh is by far the most played aggro control deck. Obviously, CB can suck up Bolt as easy as STP, but without CB, you are open to much more removal. And under CB locking all that removal, you will have to care about your opponent blocking it and taking the time to find answers to whatever they have answers for.
Keep moon-walking.
I see your point. *sigh* I guess I've just been bitten by the cool card bug then. Oh well. :)
Well, I'm not saying this is reason enough to run rafiq, but an advantage he has is that he enables a 4th turn kill... Maybe agaisnt a slow combo deck... I don't know...
At least is a point to take into acount
Edit: Nevermind, I haven't done my maths well...
Last edited by Zinch; 10-03-2008 at 02:43 PM.
Well, ThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh isnt about 4th turn kill. Establish a soft control in the early games with daze, CB. End the game with Goyf or geese backed by force of will.
Instead of trying Safiq, i think we should try and analyze how Shards will affect legacy format. And if affected, how must UGW ThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh respond to it.
Some of the planeswalker looks like bomb. I dont know their names, but the green/red one is certainly broken on paper. It can definately see some play in green/red or maybe green/black deck. I dont know if it is hyped yet.
My list already run 2 Oblivion ring which can respond to it. And obviously, i need to adapt my strategy, keep the FOW for the most dangerous spell.
Back to my experience against ITF. Would Meddling Mage maindeck be an appropriate response to it? MM have always been a hard card to play with, but maybe if i am capable of naming the good card, can i have some chance slowing opponent.
And a assuming i am playing with MM, what should my targets be first?
-Assuming an empty board. I think i would name Intuition.
-Assuming i have board advantage (Creature + CB): I think i would name EE or Pernicious Deed. I would probably name Deed first.
-Assuming board disadvantage, i think MM is useless.
does this sound correct? Or maybe i should play pithing needle maindeck. With needles, if i can shut down his mass removal, i think i can win the game before he can abuse of his engine
Robert
So, lots of people seem to be playing 2 Oblivion Ring.
Can we have a serious discussion comparing Oblivion Ring to Bant Charm.
Yes, Bant Charm can't deal with Counterbalance, which is a pretty significant weakness.
But it has so many very significant strengths as well.
O. Ring is extremely vulnerable. All your opponent has to do is destroy or remove it and they get their removed card right back. This happens fairly often.
O. Ring is not an instant. You can't leave your lands untapped for it till the end of your opponents turn and play it then.
O. Ring can't counter instants. This is very relevent against both counter heavy decks and certain combo decks where the most threatening spells are often instants.
O. Ring can't be pitched to FoW. So if you don't think there's anything worth spending three mana to get rid of, too bad, you're stuck with it.
Surely, I can't be the only one who thinks all these very relevent strenghts make up for the weakness of not being able to deal with enchantments.
Frankly, I was hyping Oblivion Ring because I did not want to lose against UWb Landstill's Hu,ility preboard. But Oblivion Ring is still more versatile than Krosan Grip as it can remove nearly everything that could be a pain in the ass, namely Counterbalance, Bitterblossom, Humility, Crucible, some creatures that are in your way...
But I don't see when Oblivion Ring is handled preboard since only a few decks really play cards in their maindeck which can deal with Enchantments.
The other point you mentioned would also apply to Vindicate which I'd play if it would not wreck the manabase. Oblivion Ring is actually Vindicate which can easily be cast.
Bant Charm does less than Oblivion Ring. Enchantments were actually the main issue why I started playing Oblivion Ring. Bant Charm is only a Couterspell that can hardly be cast since it requires all 3 colors. The other 2 effects can be neglected in this compairison since Oblivion Ring is better at disposing artifacts and creatures.
I am still not really convinced by any Shards of Alara card. Except by Oblivion Ring since it has got a more beautiful artwork than the one from Lorwyn.
Team SPOD
<Der_imaginäre_Freund> props:
Adan for being the NQG God (drawer)
bant charms are bad. The mana requirement is insane. If it would be counter target spell and not instant, then yes, it would be decent. But its not, so its bad. Oblivion ring acts as removal #5-6+. This gives ThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh more outs.
On another thoughts, people seem to be hyping over Ad nauseum. What are our answers to it, if its truly that amazing?
Robert
First off, it is spelled T-h-r-e-s-h.
Bant Charm is bad so I hope no one plays it. Ad Nauseum still loses to Force of Will/Counterbalance.dec. They will go off turn one more often so mull to those Forces.
Force of Will, Counterbalance, SB: Meddling Mage/Gaddock Teeg.
Team SPOD
<Der_imaginäre_Freund> props:
Adan for being the NQG God (drawer)
Also, don't underestimate Predict's usefulness. Mystical Tutor (and to a lesser extend Brainstorm) can be hit by it.
im just reading those crazy mini reports where they claim that their 4 duress, 2-3 orim's chant can bypass all hate.
My only concern is that the deck needs only :
5 mana + ad nauseum. Usually, its 2 dark ritual and ad nauseum. That's pretty much a three card combo.
Robert
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