What happens if you have a Empyrial Archangel in play enchanted with Pariah and your opponent bolts you? What happens to the damage? is it continuously bounced between you and the angel?
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
So in your scenario the pariah would redirect the damage to the angel then the angel would redirect it back to you. The pariah does not redirect again since it has already been used for this event.419.6a A replacement effect doesn’t invoke itself repeatedly and gets only one opportunity for each event.
While the question may be theoretical, I don't quite understand the point. Empyrial Archanngel has Shroud and thus cannot be enchanted with Pariah.
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Perhaps there was a humility in play when it got enchanted then the humility was destroyed, or maybe it was replenished back into play (if I recall correctly that doesn't target).
Auras can be attached (see Simic Guildmage) and don't target.
Zur, the Enchanter. He can do things like that.
Keep moon-walking.
Close, but no cigar. TBH, it doesn't matter how it gets on it, just that it is.If you find an Aura, you have to choose a legal target or it just remains in your library. [Coldsnap FAQ 2006/06/14]
EDIT: See cdr's post below.
Last edited by Tosh; 10-29-2008 at 01:35 AM.
To the original question:
Empyrial Archangel and Pariah have the same ability: "All damage that would be dealt to you is dealt to (Empyrial Archangel/enchanted creature) instead."
You choose one effect to apply, and the other will then no longer be applicable.419.9. Interaction of Replacement or Prevention Effects
419.9a. If two or more replacement or prevention effects are attempting to modify the way an event affects an object or player, the affected object's controller (or its owner if it has no controller) or the affected player chooses one to apply. If any of those effects are self-replacement effects (see rule 419.6d), one of them must be chosen. If not, but any of those effects would modify under whose control an object would come into play, one of them must be chosen. Otherwise, any of the applicable effects may be chosen. Once the chosen effect has been applied, this process is repeated (taking into account only replacement or prevention effects that would now be applicable) until there are no more left to apply. If two or more players have to make these choices at the same time, choices are made in APNAP order (see rule 103.4).
Example: Two permanents are in play. One is an enchantment that reads "If a card would be put into a graveyard, instead remove it from the game," and the other is a creature that reads "If [this creature] would be put into a graveyard from play, instead shuffle it into its owner's library." The controller of the creature that would be destroyed decides which replacement to apply first; the other does nothing.
In case you meant Empyrial Archangel and Blood of the Martyr (or a similar effect):
Blood of the Martyr WWW
Instant
Until end of turn, if damage would be dealt to any creature, you may have that damage dealt to you instead.Since each replacement effect will only apply once, the two effects will effectively cancel each other out. Damage that started on the Angel will be dealt to the Angel, and damage on you will be dealt to you.419.6. Replacement Effects
419.6a. A replacement effect doesn't invoke itself repeatedly and gets only one opportunity for each event.
Example: A player controls two permanents, each with an ability that reads "If a creature you control would deal damage to a creature or player, it deals double that damage to that creature or player instead." A creature that normally deals 2 damage will deal 8 damage-not just 4, and not an infinite amount.
(Bonus: Blood of the Martyr is not ideal for this example because you can choose not to use the ability.)
To whether an Aura can enchant something untargetable:
The wording of the Coldsnap FAQ entry quoted by Tosh is unfortunate (read: wrong). You have to choose something that is legal to enchant per the Aura's enchant ability, but only Aura spells target.212.4. Enchantments
212.4e. An Aura spell requires a target, which is restricted by its enchant ability.
212.4j. If an Aura is coming into play under a player's control by any means other than by being played, and the effect putting it into play doesn't specify the object or player the Aura will enchant, that player chooses what it will enchant as the Aura comes into play. The player must choose a legal object or player according to the Aura's enchant ability and any other applicable effects. If no legal choice can be made, see rule 212.4k.
Last edited by cdr; 12-21-2008 at 07:33 PM.
“It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.”
-David DeLaney
I see, so the whole "legal target" is only applicable to the "Enchant Creature" ability of Pariah so you can't put it on, say, a non-creature land.
Right, but using "target" there was a really poor choice of words - there's no targeting going on.
“It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.”
-David DeLaney
No kidding, that's confusing as hell.
Next Question :
What if I have 2 Empyrial Archangel in play, and my opponent bolt me. .
Is it 3 damages for each angel??
n my baby says,"papa papa, u don't payat upkeep. ."
"Tidal forces of the blood moon wrench and buckle the land, drawing monoliths of stone and soil toward the flaming orb"
you chose which angel gets 3 damage, same story with 2 pariah in play enchanting 2 different creatures
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Angel is Legendary. But yes, if somehow that happened, read above
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No....
Please read the card before answering.
Empyrial Archangel {4GWWU} |Creature -- Angel| 5/8. Flying, shroud / All damage that would be dealt to you is dealt to Empyrial Archangel instead. ALA-M,Vin,Leg,Ext,Std,ALABC,NewStd
Magic Level 3 Judge
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To be fair, neither did the person who started this thread or the first person who responded.
“It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.”
-David DeLaney
Reading cards is for noobs.
I read the rules on that once, but can't find it: can you split the damage from a single source between two or more replacement effects? For example, assign 1 damage from the Bolt to Archangel A and 2 to Archangel B?
And does the wording of the replacement effect matter with respect to that ("If damage would be dealt" vs. "If a source would deal damage")?
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You may have read that because the rule is quoted above (419.9a.). It's also in the Gatherer rulings for Pariah.
For every event, if there is more than one replacement effect that would apply, the player affected chooses the order they are applied. Once one Archangel/Pariah effect applies to an event, others will no longer apply to that event.
Archangel et al's event is "damage being dealt". Lightning Bolt creates a single event, combat damage being dealt creates a single event (combat damage is dealt all at once). It's possible for a single spell or ability to create multiple events for Archangel if it deals damage in two separate statements.
There's a big difference there, primarily relevant to combat. Combat damage is dealt all at once even if there are multiple sources. Combat damage would always be one event with the former wording, but would be one event for each creature for the latter.
Last edited by cdr; 11-02-2008 at 02:06 PM.
“It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.”
-David DeLaney
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