[DTB] Vial Goblins

[Mantis]

Maybe they got alternatives, such as going off before Pillar is on the board or ending with 1-3 life while killing you, discarding it with a first turn Duress/Thoughtseize, countering it or simply bouncing it EOT. IGG doesn't take much to setup, unless there's graveyard disruption in the way. Depending on the combo deck, it may force a response from them, but nothing that they can't already do. Combo is forced to deal with Counterbalance. Pillar is so much weaker than and as fast as that.

Take into account that most storm decks only run 1 copy of IGG, so they need to use a tutor to get it and then also have the appropriate cards in the GY to go off.. Also, an Ad Nauseum deck might end up on 1-3 life without Pillar, they need to deal with Pillar first before Ad Nauseum can be used. Sure they can bounce it EOT but that disrupts their combo as well as they need to use a tutor to find bounce and then use their bounce spell, losing 6 life in the process and also go off the following turn otherwise you just replay it.

I think dealing with Pillar is not easy for storm but there's nothing that can't be done. It's not failproof by any means and Pillar won't beat a godhand. Still it's one of the better spells we got. It's either this or discard assuming Chalice is mandatory.

Someone stated that Goblins has become a glass cannon in the present metagame and I might agree. So perhaps we should focus the sideboard on the other matches instead. However, I do believe that with a dedicated sideboard the combo match can be winnable, never in the 60+% range but winnable nonetheless.

[kicks_422]

If you've ever played Tendrils combo, you'd know that Pillar is one of the SB cards that you WANT to see.

[Rood]

I ruled Earwig Squad over Pillar in the board definetally because not only does it KO combo, but it also laughs at E-plague =]. Anyone else run a full set in the board or tested it before?

[Media314r8]

I ruled Earwig Squad over Pillar in the board definetally because not only does it KO combo, but it also laughs at E-plague =]. Anyone else run a full set in the board or tested it before?

I run three squads main in place of drivers 2-4. I've been very happy with them, and once won against UGb thresh through two E Plagues with Wort and two squads (the first one took their E plagues 3-4, the second two tombstalkers to ensure that they/ wort would go the distance). They are rarely dead, and often can grab nasty things like moat, humility, deed, ect in game 1 as well as pound face.

Wort is good in the mid-late game, and as a one-of MD, I think is justifiable, in addition to random shenanigans like recurring incinerator or wierding. Fear is a huge boon nowadays, as bob, dreadnaught and TS are about the only things outside of sui-black that block her. (wastes and incinerators vs factories) Recurring chump-blocking demonic tutors every turn is also the bees-knees.

[Ectoplasm]

I agree with the above sentiment on Wort. Apart from the obvious card-advantage, she randomly just wins games, through stuff like bringing back dead matrons/ringleaders. You can compare her a bit to the sharpshooter, she seems situational at first and she's a huge lightningrod in terms of spot removal, but the stuff you can pull off with her is just incredible and oftentimes gamebreaking.

She's also a pretty beefy beater with her 3/3 body plus evasion, surviving stuff like pyroclasm and setting you up to flood the board again straight afterwards.

Dunno why I wrote this, just some random Wort advertising I guess :) But I've been noticing people leaving her out of the MD which is in my opinion a mistake.

[Rood]

I agree with the above sentiment on Wort. Apart from the obvious card-advantage, she randomly just wins games, through stuff like bringing back dead matrons/ringleaders. You can compare her a bit to the sharpshooter, she seems situational at first and she's a huge lightningrod in terms of spot removal, but the stuff you can pull off with her is just incredible and oftentimes gamebreaking.

She's also a pretty beefy beater with her 3/3 body plus evasion, surviving stuff like pyroclasm and setting you up to flood the board again straight afterwards.

Dunno why I wrote this, just some random Wort advertising I guess :) But I've been noticing people leaving her out of the MD which is in my opinion a mistake.

Maybe I'm playing Wort incorrectly but I dropped it for a 1x Gempalm incinerator because out of about 65-70 rounds I played with Gobz online everytime I drew Wort it either seemed like either win-more or I just wanted to play a Goblin Ringwinner/Siege Banger instead.

[Mantis]

Is Earwig Squad fast enough to deal with Storm combo? Post side they are always going to start one game (or you 0-2 and then it doesn't matter anyway), that means they have 3 turns to combo out before Squad comes online.

Wort was so bad I replaced it. Every game I won, it just sat there in my hand doing nothing, I never Matroned for it and when I was losing it just got removed anyway. In the higher mana cost range, both Siege-Gang and Ringleader have immediate effect on the game, if they get removed the damage is already done. Additionally Wort and Relic of Progenitus are not synergy.

[kicks_422]

Is Earwig Squad fast enough to deal with Storm combo?

It's not. It's not for Storm combo anyway. It can sometimes get in against a bad hand for them, but I wouldn't bank on that.

Like I said, if only Ethersworn Canonist were a Goblin. Or if there was a True Believer Goblin. Or a Meddling Mage Goblin. I can only hope.

[Media314r8]

Squad can help against storm combo, but you need to buy turns, thats why you pack chalices. The great thing about squad is that it lets you know exactly how your opponent's deck works. If it doesn't have the igg loop, you can usually take their only tendrils and two burning wishes leaving them with only 2 ways to get their wincon (and four tutors to find those remaining two wishes.) while they're burning up their resources thrying to find them, hopefully you're bashing with your 5/3 to disable their AdNausuem, and the game is over if you get them to low enough life and have taken out their igg loop. Like I said, he is also useful for taking out deeds, e plagues, moats, humilities, ect against random decks and is often a 5/3 for 2B or even 1B. More versatile than driver, and trades with goyf just as often.

[Ectoplasm]

Plopping down a squad against solitaire often means you win the game, since you can rip out their wincon right then and there. Against slower decks like The Rock it's just unfair because they rely on boardsweepers like Deed to keep you in check :) I play 1 in the side and I've been loving the squad.

[Mantis]

I totally agree with one Squad in the SB (or MD). You would rather have some disruption such as Thoughtseize or Therapy to slow them down and then set up Matron --> Squad instead of having a Squad in your hand and losing on turn 2 to a Tendrills with storm = 10.

[Media314r8]

I totally agree with one Squad in the SB (or MD). You would rather have some disruption such as Thoughtseize or Therapy to slow them down and then set up Matron --> Squad instead of having a Squad in your hand and losing on turn 2 to a Tendrills with storm = 10.

Discard in the MB of goblins has been discussed and dismissed for the same reason I don't like it in the side: Duress/Thoughtseize/therapy are not tribal goblins. I would rather play chalice at 0 and a lackey than not play a lackey and hope my discard spell gets there. IMO chalice + squad gives goblins enough of a chance to beat combo, and while discard IS sometimes relevant against other decks, why would you board out goblins for it, its not like anyone runs tividar's crusade anymore, and the only decks that run pyroclasm can wish for them.

[Mantis]

I would run discard in the sideboard to have a shot against combo postboard. I already sideboard in 4 Chalice. I side in vastly different things against decks that have a gameplan that involves gaining control by Pyroclasm. I have 2 open slots which I want to spend on combo, I initially thought about Pyrostatic Pillar but the replies here were that it didn't work so I dropped that idea. So the choice is between either 2 Thoughtseize/Duress/Therapy or 2 Squad (I already run 1 Squad in the side).

I do agree with you that Chalice helps to slow down combo and Prowl Earwig Squad, but what if you do not draw Chalice and have an Earwig Squad in hand. Combo does what it's supposed to do on turn 2 and you never get a chance to play your Squad. Suppose that Squad was a discard spell, now you slow down combo a bit, then play Matron fetch Squad and play it next turn.

Also, discard is very good in general against combo as they keep a lot of hands that contain all mana accel and one bomb, or all bombs and few mana to cast it. Port/Waste + discard can temporarily lock them out of the game and give your men enough time to go the distance.

I do agree however that Squad is maybe even more versatile than discard is against a varity of decks for the reason that you don't want to side out a lot of Goblins. But I believe I have a fair shot against every deck out there besides combo. So if I play tight and get a bit lucky I can win every round except for combo, thus I need my sideboard slots to win those matches. The other approach is to just pray and hope you don't get to play combo (glass cannon) but I chose this one. Testing will hopefully show if I'm right about this assumption.

[Citrus-God]

Port/Waste + discard can temporarily lock them out of the game and give your men enough time to go the distance.

Ports/Wastes used to lock them out of the game. Nowadays, you Port one of their lands, they tap for mana and float it to draw step; then they proceed to cast Rituals and crack their LED and just cast Ad Nauseum for like half their deck.

[Mantis]

Ports/Wastes used to lock them out of the game. Nowadays, you Port one of their lands, they tap for mana and float it to draw step; then they proceed to cast Rituals and crack their LED and just cast Ad Nauseum for like half their deck.

If they have only 4 mana max or they want to use Burning Wish, Infernal Tutor or IGG it helps. Rishadan Port is not the ideal disruption component against combo as you pointed out, but it can help. At least, Port has helped me win me a few games against combo.

[Rood]

The Earwig Squads have proven to be absolutely insane out of the board...I'm very impressed with them right now. People apparently either don't believe in Plague anymore or I am the luckiest person alive...had it dropped maybe twice out of all the rounds I've tested so far. I'm tempted to cut green entirely and just go strait RB...Grip is good but I really have not needed it at all in any of my matches

[Media314r8]

I'm tempted to cut green entirely and just go strait RB...Grip is good but I really have not needed it at all in any of my matches

I'm currently runnig RB, but I can see the appeal of Tin street as a tutorable one-of alongside a singleton Taiga. I, however, am currently running 3/2 bannerets/warchiefs, as I find dropping banneret turn two allows for much for brokeness turn three, (and daze-proof matrons) while speeding up the deck. Hate is really only relevant when you have taken board control and are swinging for the win, we drop our important guys EOT through vial anyhow for insurance. Thus, tin street more often than not fails at doing anything, so I've opted for tinkerer in his place. I also don't have to worry about my one black source being wasted and cut off from mad auntie/wort/wierding mana because I fetched a Taiga for my tin street.

Glad the squads are working out for you.

[Mantis]

Frogtosser Banneret sounds interesting as it fits your curve, and especially the Vial curve, a lot better than Warchief does. On the flip side, Warchief is much more powerful as it gives your guys haste. I will most definately give the Banneret a spin.

I've been thinking, if you run Earwig Squad in the side and the combo matchup becomes more prevalent, perhaps Skirk Prospector should be played in the main instead of Mogg Fanatic. He allows for a second turn Squad or for a third turn Squad with Matron. People have already talked about putting Fanatic in the board so perhaps Prospector is the ideal replacement. Additional pro's are: He's nuts with Sharpshooter, he's nuts against MUC as you can sac the creature they are attempting to steal in resp. and generate mana so you can get through Propaganda, he helps against manascrew allowing you to cast that much needed Warchief. Against Ichorid you lose the ability to destroy Ichorids and Moebas, but you gain infinite sac outlets to remove Bridges. However Fanatic is much, much better in combat.

Also, Null Rod could be good against combo? Not sure it's better than the other alternatives, but maybe something to look at as well.

[Shimster]

Although I turned away from Goblins some time ago, I really fell in love with Earwig Squad.

What do current Rb lists look like?

// Lands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Mountain
2 Badlands
1 Swamp
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland

// Creatures
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Earwig Squad
2 Mogg Fanatic
2 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Siege-Gang Commander

// Spells
4 AEther Vial
3 Warren Weirding

I've got no more love for Mogg Fanatic, so I would really like to cut him and leave him in my Vintage TMWA. He's very good in there.

[ScatmanX]

2 Fanatics is kind of meh. Leave 1 if you want the tech, and add 1 Sharpshooter main, cause with 3 Warren Weirding, and only 2 Gempalm, 2 Siege-Gang and 2 Fanatic, your mirror must not be good at all...