[Deck] Vial Affinity

[Xero_2285]

I think that this is a poor example of why vial is so good. Your goldfish situation with drum and the same hand could easily be:
T1: Artifact Land, Drum, Thopter, DotV
T2: Artifact Land, Plating, Equip Thopter, Thopter swings for 5
T3: Artifact Land, Ravager, Thopter swings for 7 + DotV for 1 if there are no blocks. If either DotV can get through or your opponent has cracked a fetch you win.

That's actually a better explanation. But the one I gave was considering facing disruption. I always consider disruption in any game plan. And mine is less susceptible to disruption because of Vial. If they waste a Force on my 1st turn Vial, I'm almost alright with that, less counters I have to face later. Keeping an extra mana open 2nd turn for Daze or not playing a 2cc 2nd turn due to Spell Snare, things like that. But yes, facing NO disruption yours is a better way to go. Turn 1 Drum is really no different than Vial. They both accel for later turns and are both targets for counter, so saying my turn 4 kill is worse than your turn 3 because you drop your whole hand overextending while I play it safe and kill you turn 4, is shenanigans, wich is why I run both, I get to decide wich to play based off of what I'm facing. But, VIAL GETS BY COUNTERS, DRUM DOES NOT. It was an actual winning scenario I have played out in actual games many, many times, not something I just came up with. (Combo and Control are real big in my meta)

[kicks_422]

Agree. Drum might seem faster in some cases (maybe even most), but the uncounterability that Vial grants is just awesome. I used to think Vial is bad for the deck too, as it looks like it could slow the deck down (e.g. if I had Drum instead of Vial, I could have cast these 2 Frogmites one turn earlier!), but in actual play, Vial is much more valuable. Also, the key is playing BOTH of them, as some think that playing Vial means not playing Drum.

[4eak]

@ jseed

So it's pretty obvious that in terms of speed drum is better. I think a better example of vial superiority would be a real game against some kind of blue deck

The situation is not:

Drum or Vial, and not both.

Running one does not mean we expect you to stop running the other. I expect both cards to be in Vial Affinity. You'll see a ton of reasons to run both in the past 10 pages.

Some games having that reach after just getting wrecked by deed/wrath/etc it would be nice to be able to just try to burn them out. Has anyone successfully put them in their deck with MoE?

If you mean "made the best Vial Affinity deck possible" by the word successfully, then the answer is no. The card has fallen out of favor for many reasons.




peace,
4eak

[Proz0r]

A few pages back people are discussing about Arcbound Worker being too weak for the deck. What about Goblin Welder, could he be added to the deck instead? Of course he doesn't add as much aggro, but he is very strong against permission decks. Has anyone tested him?

[Dark_Cynic87]

It's not too weak. It's needed even though it doesn't seem powerful. It can kill a lackey and give it's power and toughness to a flyer (Thopter). It's a double-pump to ravager and a turn one play. It's just got all these little synergies that make it necessary. I'd keep it over Enforcer...

Pce,

--DC

[Zappa]

I have been playing this build for a bit, just gold fishing and stuff. Sunday, I finished my 100th gold fishing runs. I am not really sure but is the deck a little slow? Or does it sound just about right?

The deck list I am running is:

4 Glimmervoid
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Tree of Tales
4 Vault of Whispers
2 Blinkmoth Nexus

4 Paradise Mantle
4 Thoughtcast

4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Master of Etherium
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Frogmite
2 Myr Enforcer
4 Ornithopter
4 Arcbound Worker

4 Aether Vial
4 Cranial Plating

SB: 4 Krosan Grip
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
SB: 3 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 4 Pithing Needle

Out of 100 Games gold fishing (not on MWS), I've had this results on when I got to kill the opponent on certain turns out of a hundred games.

Turn 3: 3%
Turn 4: 55%
Turn 5: 39%
Turn 6: 1%
Turn 7: 2%

Does that sound just about right to you guys experinced with the deck? Or does it seem a little slow?

I am also trying a 100 games of test run of a UBW build running enlightned tutors instead of Thoughtcast, and Seal of cleansing instead of Krosan Grip, and Ancient Den instead of Tree of Tales, adding also an Executioner's Capsule in the sideboard.

I understand that thoughtcast is probably superior, but I don't want to automatically ignore the card without trying for a bit. Has anyone also tried Enlightened Tutor for their affinity? Here's what I am currently testing out.

4 Glimmervoid
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Den
4 Vault of Whispers
2 Blinkmoth Nexus

4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Springleaf Drum

4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Master of Etherium
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Frogmite
2 Myr Enforcer
4 Ornithopter
4 Arcbound Worker

4 Aether Vial
4 Cranial Plating

SB: 3 Seal of Cleansing
SB: 1 Executioner's Capsule
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
SB: 3 thorn of Amethyst
SB: 4 Pithing Needle

Though at the moment since all I am really doing is just gold fishing and sometimes playing my friends, but mostly goldfishing. The sideboard is pretty pointless at the moment since all I do is just gold fish it.

I will then later try to run it through a gauntlet.

But for those of you have has already plenty of experience with this deck, and on a competitive level. What's your take on E. Tutor?

[1maarten1]

Hmm, i dont think cutting thoughtcast is a good idea at all :P. And why are you running mantle? In the list u posted first i would cut 1 vial and 1 drum for 2 enforcers because i think they are great! I dont know about tutor but i do know that its not smart to cut thoughtcast.

~Maarten

[GreenOne]

4 Paradise Mantle
[...]
Out of 100 Games gold fishing (not on MWS), I've had this results on when I got to kill the opponent on certain turns out of a hundred games.

Turn 3: 3%
Turn 4: 55%
Turn 5: 39%
Turn 6: 1%
Turn 7: 2%

Does that sound just about right to you guys experinced with the deck? Or does it seem a little slow?

Replacing Paradise Mantle with drum speeds up the deck a lot. You'll probably have more turn 3 this way.

But for those of you have has already plenty of experience with this deck, and on a competitive level. What's your take on E. Tutor?

I tested it a bit. Having a toolbox was underimpressing, but running the tutor allowed the deck to play the Painter-Grindstone combo. Standard build of affinity are better anyway.

[4eak]

@ Zappa

Out of 100 Games gold fishing (not on MWS), I've had this results on when I got to kill the opponent on certain turns out of a hundred games.

Turn 3: 3%
Turn 4: 55%
Turn 5: 39%
Turn 6: 1%
Turn 7: 2%

I appreciate your time and effort. Given your decklist, those numbers sound right. I think GreenOne's advice is spot on.

While I'm definitely concerned about the clock of the deck, I'm not exactly sure that Vial Affinity is best represented by how fast it can goldfish an opponent's 20 life (even though this is the usual concern for most combo decks).

If this were the goal, by itself, then I would much rather play ANT. You can make builds that goldfish 50% on Turn 1 (at the expense of resilience and protection, and including an equal chance to be on the play and draw).

Vial Affinity isn't blazing fast, and there isn't a way to make it fast enough to compete with other true combo decks. In order for the deck to even be competitive, it really must play a different role. Where a pure combo deck will fail an aggro-combo deck may not.

Vial Affinity is an aggro deck first and a combo deck second.

The strength of an aggro deck in Legacy is that it can play so many raw threats in the deck. Few decks can afford to play 30 creatures in it, and even fewer can play such synergistic ones that build each other up. It is difficult to answer that many creatures, especially if they are coming out as earlier as turn 3. There are not many control and aggro-control decks that can honestly answer us unless they are sideboarding specifically for the deck (Energy Flux, etc.).

The deck isn't looking to goldfish opponents, but rather it is looking for inevitability. Of course dropping fatties early is important, but the resilience to permission and the difficulty in establishing board control against the deck (outside of a few sweepers), makes Affinity a competitive choice in metagames that combo would just fail.

This deck drops raw power on the table, that is all. It has a unique ramp, excellent fatties, and sometimes combos into strong creature-based damage positions. A single FoW doesn't destroy a hand of Affinity, or even timewalk our opponent very much. It is fast, but also resilient against 1 for 1 control cards, and it bombs the opponent.





peace,
4eak

[Zappa]

I apologize I don't know why I put down mantle when it is supposed to be Springleaf Drum . I used to use Mantle for the deck until I read what you guys have discussed. I had the deck list saved in a text file in my desktop on my computer. I guess I completly forgat to write over the mantle. But yes, those were the resuts I have had with the spring leaf drum.

The reason why I considered the enlightened tutor vs thoughcast was out of those games, there was several games.. I think maybe 3 or 4 games out of 100. Where I casted thoughtcast and drew no relevant cards... just either two artifact lands, or thopter vial, or something and drum. I understand that It's not really that bad since it does power up Master of Etherium, Plating, Diciple + ravager combo. However those were the games that I did not have a Any of those said cards out and was hoping to draw into them.

I was thinking that perhaps instead of the card advatage I can tutor for the card that I need to really turn the game around. let it be...

Cards I sideboarded (Either needle, chalice, seal of cleansing, thorn of amethyst)... Then again this part is untested since I have been just gold fishing and no actual match results.

Or just fetch for what I need to drop... Master, plating, ravager, or thopter.

However, you guys have by far more experience with the deck. So I'll take your word for it and just stick with Thoughtcast.

For those that has had experience with this match up, could you, if possible share your experience on how you fare against:

1)Burn

2)B/W Confidant...Pikula/home brew... whatever its called. The one running Confidant, Hymn, Sinkholes, Wasteland, and Shade.

3) and the one that I am really concerned with is, how does our match up look like against Landstill? I have been wondering on the proper action when you've calculated that you can deal a near lethal damage to them by over extending but not enough to kill them, and you're aware that Wrath of God is coming down soon.

I guess with experience I'll understand what to do, but right now I am still inexperienced with the deck, so advise is greatly appreciated .

Replacing Paradise Mantle with drum speeds up the deck a lot. You'll probably have more turn 3 this way.

Yeah I don't know why I forgat to write over the mantle. I had the decklist saved in a txt file in my computer desktop, but I guess I forgat to change it. However, those reults were indeed the one with springleaf drum. Maybe I was just getting unlucky then.

I don't like using MWS since I don't know why... maybe it's just my imagination, but it seems to do a poor job of randomizing my cards. I realize it (or imagining it) when I used to goldfish this one deck before called "Spring Tide" (Sorcery based version of solidarity)... I dunno maybe it's just my imagination.

But I prefer to table shuffle anyways after each test.


NOTE: My friend took a look at the deck list and said that, there's alot of threats in the deck and it is fast but mentions something like "backing up yourartifact threat with a non-artifact threat". What he's trying to get at I guess is not putting all the eggs in 1 basket in case of hate. But his solution for it as he said is since I am running Tree of Tales, Glimmervoid and Drums that I can splash in tarmogoyf. But then again, this person likes to stick this creature in every single deck that at times makes me wonder why it's even in there. But perhaps though, he may have a point. What are you guy's opinion on this one?

Possible extra threat? Or will it just make the deck look silly?

[GreenOne]

Burn is a so so matchup. Either Chalice or Thorn from the side is really helping, but if they're siding Shattering Spree it's not great. The game revolves around a fast Plating, MoE or big Ravager. Something that can race them. You gotta go for the throat, so they must expend resources on dealing with your board.

BW Pikula is a good matchup. Their creatures are small compared to yours, and you run more. You just need to stabilize in the midgame with some lands in play. Your topdecks are better than their (they topdeck discard and you can play whatever you draw).

Landstill strongly depends on which splashes are thy running. Wrath is a lot better than pernicious deed. Aether vial shines in this matchup. Krosan grip and winter orb, needle are nice SB cards.

I ran tarmogoyf when the deck did not have access to Master of Etherium yet. MoE is better. Playing Goyf in, say, Enforcer slot would be worse for the sinergies of the deck (less modular, less affinity, no +1+1 with MoE, less Plating DMG, less artifacts for Disciple and Ravager). Also, I would not play too many coloured cards in the deck. Your friend says that you need less artifact dudes due to hate. I say that if specific hate against artifacts is in your meta you should just NOT play affinity. If there are many Null rods, Serenity, Energy flux, whatever, just change deck. Tarmogoyf would be good but not busted, and it conflicts with the internal sinergyes of the deck. There's also no room unless you want it in the Enforcer slots.

Also, your deck is lacking Darksteel Citadel. I thought there were not many land destruction decks in your meta, but since you mentioned BW Pikula and Landstill (wasteland-crucible) then you may want to have 4.

[Captain Hammer]

Zappa, Enlightened Tutor is interesting but ultimately I don't think the card disadvantage it provides and the slots it takes up are justified.

The only thing you would tutor up is a finisher, so just play more finishers (ravager, that equipment, shrapnel blast, master, all deserve all those slots more).

[Soto]

This isn't Vial Affinty nor is it Ravager Affinity, but it is affinity, so I didn't feel like making another thread (there are 3+ threads that resolve around the same principle). Here's the list:


3 Glimmervoid
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Den
4 Darksteel Citadel
1 Chrome Mox

4 Springleaf Drum
4 Thoughtcast

4 Master of Etherium
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Ornithopter
4 Ethersworn Canonist

4 Street Wraith
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Cranial Plating
4 Swords to Plowshares

SB: 3 Disenchant
SB: 4 Orim's Chant
SB: 4 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 4 Pithing Needle

There you have it. So first thing that shines, is the absence of Arcbound Ravager. My reasons for removing it are simple, dissynergy with Master of Etherium (and to an extent Cranial Plating), and my personal annoyance with it for costing two. Since the deck plays with little mana, I want it to play as many things as possible that hurt the opponent fast. I didn't find that Arcbound Ravager achieved this fast enough.

Next, the absence of Disciple of the Vault. This was an obvious choice to exclude from the Maindeck once Ravager had been removed. At the same time, Arcbound Worker become obsolete without Ravager to get 2 counters, it was too slow. Black was also kind of useless as an extra color.

Now, instead of all that, I added Street Wraiths and Mishra's Baubles. You'll probably criticize the Baubles as bad top decks, and I am very much of that opinion, but I couldn't find anything better to thin the deck and help it out at the same type as Affinity fodder. The Street Wraiths do their job well, and will pitch to the 1 (maybe change this to more) Chrome Mox.

The Swords to Plowshares are pretty selp explanatory in the sense that the general metagame has become very aggressive with big creatures, and there is no spectacular cheap creature removal spell that is an artifact.

Another big change in the metagame is ANT. The Ethersworn Canonist are mostly in the Maindeck for that, but help against any deck really.

In a first draft of the deck, I wasn't playing Glimmervoids and hitting lands on my draws was rare, and since I need fast mana for my plays, I decided to add them. Also, Springleaf Drum is incredible boost with Ornithopter, or Frogmites if your hand allows it.

The rest of the creature base and other cards are needed in any Affinity deck.

The sideboard is pretty much whatever, but answers most decks. I usually side out the Street Wraiths and/or Mishra's Baubles.

The deck plays a sound amount of artifacts 49/56 (4 Street Wraiths). Getting the colors you need hasn't been difficult in testing.


The deck itself plays pretty simply. Ethersworn Canonist should come into play soon if you have it. With the Thoughtcasts, Mishra's Baubles, and Street Wraiths, you'll have a good amount of cards to play per turn, making answering your threats harder for your opponent. One difficulty with long lasting Affinity games was the fact that your opponent would play creatures to block yours. With Swords to Plowshares and Master of Etherium that shouldn't be a problem anymore.

My main concerns for the deck are the singleton Chrome Mox and the free draws.

All suggestions welcome, obv.

[Zappa]

Since the deck plays with little mana, I want it to play as many things as possible that hurt the opponent fast.

Hi Soto, I too am testing out a white splash of vial affinity to fetch anwers / threats agfainst certain match ups and positions, along with a singleton Hanna's Custody main decked. Even though I promised my self to reach 100 games of play test before I give it up, I have already played 76 games so far and I must say it is rather slow. SO my experiment may end already as I was more satisfied with the UBG version running krosan grip in the SB.

I must say though that I find it odd that you wanna put the hurting on the opponent fast but you ditched the cards that does it.

1) Ravager - you mentioned that this card has a bad synergy with Master of Etherium. But you know you don't really always have to commit to wiping your board clean. I see ravager as means of making use of what would normally die and make himself bigger in the process...
- Annoying combat trick
- Sacrifing something in response to what ever malicious spell aimed at
your threats.
- (With disciple) Ending the game where you normally couldn't have gone
though. Like Being faced with Ghostly Prison / Propaganda, Moat,
Elephant Grass (Enchantress), or your opponent just somehow managed
to build one heck of a defense against yours.

2) With your list your running a fairly low amount of creatures for a deck that really wants to be the aggro. I wouldn't consider the wraiths as clock either since you seem to be just using it for draw. That and the same reason that you mentioned ravager costing 2.

3) As for the Bauble, hmm, I don't like how vial was replaced for it.

I like how you're trying to work on cantrips though. But I'd rather focus on:
Speed, Synergy, and Threat Density.



A question I have for everyone though. Any opinion on Cursed Scroll perhaps even just as a singleton? It would make control think twice about letting it resolve, and it can atleast kill Kataki or Meddling Mage.

Just wondering coz I used to run 1 in my B/W Confidant, and just find it funny seeing as a 1 off.

[4eak]

@ Soto

Shuffled your deck up and played a few; the deck is slow. It has the classic aggro mistake of spending slots to answer other decks while tremendously decreasing your own synergy and speed. Essentially, you make the game go on longer, but you also win much later. You've not developed anything better than or equal to what we already have.

Removal of Ravager, Disciple, and Vial are unacceptable. (I'm not saying it dogmatically; years of testing will also show you this is true)

Who cares if MoE and Ravager have a slight conflict of interest? That conflict of interest existed long before MoE; see Cranial Plating. Games where both cards are active are games where you were already winning. Usually you'll only have one scaling card active on the board, and so playing as many scaling cards as possible (increasing the odds of having a bomb) is very important.

Ravager and MoE play different roles too. Ravager is still the strongest card in the deck. Ravager creates resilience and forces through damage where MoE cannot. Where MoE is better than Ravager, you were usually already winning -- and even then, MoE is only barely better than Ravager in those cases. Ravager turns losing game states into winning ones way more than MoE.

As for Vial, read the past 15 pages or so. If you aren't convinced, then test it. Test it against a serious gauntlet. With real play experience, you're going to see why we play Aether Vial in Vial Affinity.

Bauble/Wraith is an interesting choice, but it isn't a strong one (especially not at the expense of Disciple/Ravager/Vial). I consider it subpar in this deck because we have more complicated decisions and tempo requirements to make and meet about our cards than a more redundant deck like Burn. I will admit that your mana-base, while it only has 16 land, can actually be played when you play 8 free-cantrips. This is still not as strong as just playing Vial Affinity though.

In my experience, white cards should only show up in the sideboard.



peace,
4eak

[Zappa]

Has anyone seen one of the new spoiled cards for the new set? There's a white card there that I am wondering if it could make the BUW a nice choice.

With white we gain access (even if it's just sideboard wise) to:

- Disenchant / Seal of Cleansing
- Ethersworn Canonist

It seems like it helps us more get on the aggressive role faster, as well as having more ways of answring a turn 1 lackey as well. Here is the new card I wanted your opinion on.

Court Homunculus:
Artifact Creature - Homunculus
Casting Cost: W
Power/Toughness: 1/1
Ability: Court homunculus gets +1/+1 if you control another artifact.

[Damnosus]

It seems like it helps us more get on the aggressive role faster, as well as having more ways of answring a turn 1 lackey as well. Here is the new card I wanted your opinion on.

Court Homunculus:
Artifact Creature - Homunculus
Casting Cost: W
Power/Toughness: 1/1
Ability: Court homunculus gets +1/+1 if you control another artifact.

I will agree that I am liking the white splash a great deal: gives better answers for combo than green, and better against enchantments than red. It helps to even out some of the more difficult matchups (i.e. the ones that are nearly automatic losses).

That being said, the Homunculus is terrible. What would it replace? Worker (the first card I could think of that it would replace) is just so much better and synergistic. I would say CH is a big no no for this deck.

[Kilz88]

Ok, so I know I will be flamed heavily for this so maybe give me some slack...With the spoiler in mind and my recent over thinking about the deck I have come up with a new list with one very drastic and off the wall change:

4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Ancient Den
2 Darksteel Citadel
2 Glimmervoid
2 Blinkmoth Nexus

4 Arcbound Worker
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Master of Etherium
4 Ornithopter
4 Court Homunculus
3 Tidehollow Sculler

4 Aether Vial
4 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast
3 Springleaf Drum

SB
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Pithing Needle
4 Tormod's Crypt/Stifle
3 Seal of Cleansing

Now I know by now you are really to bite my head off but let me explain a few things.

First off, this is what I am TESTING not planning on taking to a grand prix or anything. Secondly, shuffle up the deck before you say a damn thing.

So. Lets start with some small changes and get them out of the way before I get to the big ones.

Nexus: I think this card is quite neccissary due to the overabundance of moat these days. Not to mention its ability to stay on the board as a threat if they hit you with serenity.

"4" Vials: Due to the most obvious creature change, I think this card is more important than ever. Not to mention standstills all over the damn metagame.

Now, 4 Court Munky: I have decided to cut ravager for a few reasons: #1, he is quite anti-synergistic with master. Master is one of the greatest things to have happened to this deck in a long time and I feel that in order to make full use of him, we need to keep our shit in play and on the board. #2, I have put off getting my foil ravagers for now and been rid of the non foil copies in the meantime. Lets work with what I got then...Now with ravager leaving comes the question, is disciple still worth it? I know they are the reason this deck is as successful as its is but one without the other is merely another "good" card. So munky is in disciple's slot and man is he been aggressive in testing. He is another target for modular, he keeps tempo with his being an artifact, unlike disciple, and he is a 3/3 under master. He will always be a 2/2 before mongoose is a 3/3.

I was then posed with the question...what could fill ravager's spot and still be an effective 2 drop. Well I thought of a few things ravager did besides sac stuff. He is an artifact, and he draws out counters. Well that gave me a few choices: Seeing how atog is the opposite of what I am going for he was pushed aside. Luckily for us we have this esper shard throwing us some very cool options (Oh and btw, dropped it to 3 for a 3rd drum...could go back up to 4 if the card that ends up in ravager's spot is a colorless guy):

Tidehollow Stix: The tarmo//dreadnought killer!!! and he has evasion!!! Honestly it is a cool option I may try in the future but we'll see.

Tidehollow Sculler: This guy does exactly what this deck needs, IMO. Against the matches that are difficult for this deck, he really can lend a helping hand. He is a creature and gets pumped by modular and master AND he pumps master himself while taking out that big blocker, counter/stifle, or sideboarded hate card giving you just enough time to smash in FTW. Vialing him in is AMAZING.

Etherium Sculptor: Havent thought he was too stellar yet. He makes you a little faster but is kind of ugh with vial.

Bringing canonist into the main: At first this is what I did, and may end up doing in the end. Combo is a hard match up and this gives you one more chance to win it. Not to mention it can randomly hurt loam decks and someone digging for a counterspell. /we then get another slot in the board, cool!

Epochrasite: Sweet with vial and sticks around after people rape you with mass removal. Me likey.

Lastly, here is this new guy that just got posted on the spoiler:

Salvage Slasher -
Artifact Creature - Human Rogue (C)
Salvage Slasher gets +1/+0 for each artifact card in your graveyard.
1/1

He upsets me because I think he may cater to the previous stratagies more than my current one but I wanted to hear some other feedback on him. I don't think he belongs in my build but maybe I am wrong...

Thanks for being patient and lemme know, in a polite manner, whether you think I am an idiot or an innovator.

[GUdrus]

Hi, guys. I'm the new guy, having just signed to this forum and am just discovering Legacy format. I play Affinity in extended, so just a few budget changes makes the deck Legacy worthy, so desided it will be a good deck for starting a new format.

I see Affinity as having a lot of room for subtle changes that makes it go a little different direction, and still can't deside wich way to go. Hope you will give me a few advices.

The deck I am currently testing:

Lands (18):
4x Seat of Synod
4x Great Furnace
4x Vault of Whispers
3x Tree of Tales
2x Blinkmoth Nexus
1x Glimmervoid

4x Arcbbound Worker
4x Ornithopter
4x Disciple of the Vault
4x Frogmite
4x Arcbound Ravager
3x Master of Etherium
3x Myr Enforcer

4x Thoughtcast
4x Springleaf Drum
4x Aether Vial
4x Cranial Plating

Sideboard:

3x Thoughtseize (against combo and threshhold)
3x Thorn of Amethyst (against storm based combo)
2x Engineered Explosives (goblins and belcher tokens, thought I'm thinking to changes these into pyroclasm)
4x Tormod's Crypt (ichorid and cephalid breakfast)
3x Ancient Grudge (other affinities)

I have 8 accelerant, and think about cutting 1, but can't deside wich. It seems you really want to have turn1 vial, so I am leaning towards cuting the drum.

Also, I still can't deside if Atogs and Flings have their place in the deck and do Myr enforcers and Masters belong in the deck. They seem a bit slow, but nether I am very happy with atogs and flings.

So, any suggestions?

[Zappa]

@Kilz88

I was doing a test on a white splash but only for the addition Enlightened Tutors, to fetch for the card that could swing the game around, as well as a silver bullet (Hanna's Custody or Cused Scroll). Addition of white also means being able to run a sideboard with Canonist and Seal of Cleansing.

I tried your list on MWS but used isamaru and pretended that it was the Homunculus. Upon testing that list that you gave, I have not seen any turn 3 kills, turn 4 kills were lower than usual, and I was seeing an average of turn 5-6, a few turn 7s as well.

Sculler is VERY hard to cast, and at times just sitting there in my hand until I can vial it in or hit a glimmer void (which you're only running 2), or drum (which you're only running 3).

Also a big note I wanna tell you is losing ravager and disciple is NOT worth it. These two guys is something that shouldn't really be touched. They speed up the deck, help dodge some removal or punish them for it, as well as having some nice combat tricks.

Ravager and master works well in the deck. with them you have more threats and better top deck, master makes ravager a fine 2/2 and ravager see master as potential food. Remember you don't always have to use ravager to sac your whole board, you use him to dodge removals.

From testing Isamaru the one i'm using as pretend to be Homunculus, it is not worth it. The deck slowly becomes diluted when more and more color specific casting cost cards are added in. Atleats with red if youre using Shrapnel/Fling and Atog those cards can end the game if unanswered... turn 10 clock on another hand is not worth it.

"4" Vials: Due to the most obvious creature change, I think this card is more important than ever. Not to mention standstills all over the damn metagame.

I was under the impression that vial is an auto include in the deck, hence the namesake.



@GUDrus
Hi and welcome to mtgthesource. As for the Fling and Atog, they're still pretty good, however, It just doesnt seem to be needed as much with the printing of Master, but fling and atog is still good choices. Just refrain from having getting too many colored cards in the deck. If you do, you'll notice that you'll find yourself holding back on cards due to difficulty of casting them, or finding yourself mulliganing alot more also.

I like the deck you have so far, with the exception of the mana base. But then again how could I not like it it's pretty much a standard build . But do you really need tree and furnace together?

The current decklist I am running is this one...

4 Glimmervoid
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Tree of Tales
4 Vault of Whispers
2 Blinkmoth Nexus

4 Springleaf Drum
4 Thoughtcast

4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Master of Etherium
4 Arcbound Ravager
3 Frogmite
3 Myr Enforcer
4 Ornithopter
4 Arcbound Worker

4 Aether Vial
4 Cranial Plating

SB: 4 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
SB: 4 Pithing Needle

If anything I wan't to keep my drum and glimmer to a maximum so I have an additional 8 ways to produce the mana I need. I tried a white splash also for some added versatility, however it lost the explosiveness from the Thoughtcast. Here's the White version I was tesing on MWS, if you're interested or just curious.

This one is what I am testing in MWS at the moment.

4 Glimmervoid
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Den
4 Vault of Whispers
2 Blinkmoth Nexus

4 Springleaf Drum
3 Enlightened Tutor

4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Master of Etherium
4 Arcbound Ravager
3 Frogmite
3 Myr Enforcer
4 Ornithopter
4 Arcbound Worker

4 Aether Vial
4 Cranial Plating
1 Cursed Scroll

SB: 4 Seal of Cleansing
SB: 3 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
SB: 4 Pithing Needle

The only difference here besides the ancient den, is thetutor and singleton scroll, and sideboarded cleansing and canonist, just basically went for the idea of being able to tutor up an a threat or answer depending on the situation.

However, I still prefer the first build as I'd rather have Krosan Grip.