People played RW a couple of years ago, how recent are those decks? Also, they could be from random 17-man craptourneys with bird decks in the top 8 etc.
Hello friend.
I think that's a bit of a dense statement.. Anyway, browsing through pages I don't see much american tournaments at all.. if any, so the same applies both ways.Originally Posted by Seriously
As far as I can see the wins posted are just as legit as the wins posted for R/Rb/Rbg goblins. The w splash has an advantage in the mirror as well against several other decks (aggro) that are apparently more dominant in the places where the deck is played. What color you splash (if at all) should be a meta call, I don't believe one is better then the other by definition.
I dont. the same applies to tournaments in small towns in the US. people in foreign countries and those who live in smaller towns who prefer to trade for cards instead of buy them online have access to smaller card pools and are more prone to run less than optimal decks. a lot of ebay sellers wont ship internationally and then even if they do they still wont ship to certain countries, like italy or spain, specifically due to high theft rates. just because every last US tournament isnt listed on deckcheck doesnt mean that they didnt take place.
also, I never said that the wins werent legitimate. but from the few pages I looked through, there were more 1st place wins from other variants than RW, even though there seemed to be more RW decks posted. I saw a lot of dates going back to atleast july 07, warren wierding wasnt as popular back then, I dont even know if it was printed at that point. so I can see how RW could have been somewhat better. you may not believe the black removal is better than the white, but I do. most of those decks ran only 3 copies of swords. 3 copies that arent tutorable in any way and get completely hosed by ringleader. sure its one mana cheaper, but at a loss of a lot of syngery.
Last edited by Seriously; 01-03-2009 at 03:26 PM. Reason: forgot to quote
Sir, you really don't need Ebay to get cards, just because that's the way to get it in the US doesn't mean that the rest of the world needs to do it the same way. I stick with my opinion, it's a dense statement. Comparing the rest of the world to "small towns in the US" is... you know lets just stay on the topic of Goblins.
I don't see why you would go back all the way to 07, just look at the past year and R/w has a strong pressence, regardless of what you believe or what synergy there is, apparently it gets results.
But if you want to talk about StP vs Warren's Weirding
StP
+Targettable
+1 mana
Warren Weirding
+Tutorable
Note that white gives Disenchant in the sideboard as well without the need to splash another color and also orims chant, for what it's worth. Again, I believe that the color splash is meta dependand and for the people that T8'd with Rw goblins they likely made the right meta call.
In what kind of meta you would suggest playing Rw standart Rw list over standart Rgb list? Which splash would be most efective in trash-goblins-affinity meta?
I'd go with a green and white splash for 8x enchantress effects and just play enchantress in that meta.
Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.Deck
Current Record: 1-83-2
You also have to remember if you flip a Warren Weirding off of a Ringleader it goes to your hand and probably 70 percent of the time Warchief is making your Weirdings cost one. As far as the disenchant effect goes Krosan Grip is mostly superior in the format of Counterbalance.
Team Intuition - Living on the Canadian border....savage tech
Hi, I was wondering about my own Rbg decklist, I know I'm no expert but here is what I've come up with:
SPELLS (38)
3 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Mogg Fanatic
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie
4 AEther Vial
3 Warren Weirding
LANDS (22)
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Badlands
3 Taiga
3 Mountain
2 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
SIDEBOARD (15)
3 Krosan Grip
3 Pyrokinesis
4 Relic of Progenitus
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Earwig Squad
I was wondering about my mana base because I don't see that many basics really...just wondering what you guys thought...and in the Rw debate, you are both right: it's a great build for an undeveloped meta, perhaps the best for goblins, if it needs targeted removal THAT bad..but that's about it.
@Nessaja:
Thanks, that explains it. They probably expect a lot of mirror matches so Goblin Pyromancer and STP make a lot of sense. Although I fail to see why Mono R would not be straight up better in those metagames as you are immune to Wastelands and have Gempalm Incinerator to deal with their Goblins.
But there are a lot of suboptimal lists out there, you just can not defend stuff like Goblin Goon. I fail to see why those people don't just run more Siege Gang Commanders instead as I found that and Gempalm Incinerator the way to beat the mirror match.
You do not side in Krosan Grip to deal with Counterbalance, that is just wrong. Counterbalance is not really good against Goblins, as Lackey and Vial will come down before Counterbalance. The rest of your important spells cost 3 or more and Counterbalance has a hard time answering those. In fact, smart Counterbalance players side out the Balance against Goblins. An exception could be made for Dreadstill where you want Krosan Grip to deal with Dreadnought.
2 of my friends play Dreadstill and I must say that their chances of winning increase tremendously at the moment they drop a cb, even if it's without top.
They can just keep a trinket mage in their library with top assistance and shut down half of your curve (or at least 9 cards if you're running a shooter) and an early vial or lackey often catches a fow.
I wouldn't trivialize CB like that :) Dreadstill is a good matchup for us, since the inherent card disadvantage in stifling a dreadnought AND keeping a backup plan in case of a tin street hooligan/weirding is exactly what a goblin player likes, but free counterspells like CB can and will make up for this.
Hello friend.
But most of the people playing Counterbalance (and the correct thing to do, too) side them out Games 2 and 3 against Goblins for more removal/sweepers, so siding in Grips for CB is wasted. Correct me if I'm wrong.
The Source: Your Source for "The Source: Your Source for..." cliche.
Only time I care about CB is if they also have a Dreadnought out. That is to say, I will side in Krosan Grip to deal with Dreadnought, it's never a dead card in the matchup because Grip deals with Factory, Top and sometimes EE, B2B and the ocassional player that didn't do his homework and kept Counterbalance in. I'm not sure how good Weirding is against Dreadstill, they can just sac a Trinket Mage or activate Factory in resp and sac that.
Anyway, against Counterbalance Threshold I would advise you to not side your Grips in, assuming they don't run Moat or Moatlike enchantments.
Siding in grips against Dreadstill is never a wasted effort, like Mantis already said.
I'm just trying to make a case against trivializing CB :) I know it can be played around (just keep a lackey/vial in your hand, play it and if he isn't lucky and gets a dreadnought/stifle on top of his deck he'll have the choice between putting his top on his library and getting the same 3 cards next turn, while you can play everything else, or getting uncounterable goblins on the other side of the board because he was foolish enough to let you play a vial) but fact of the matter is, he *will* get a dreadnought in his top 3 sometimes and he *will* get blind counters right when you don't want them.
I don't know, I just don't like playing against CB
Hello friend.
Doesn't the rise of Tombstalker and Phyrexian Dreadnought make Stingscourger more favorable than Warren Weirding? It can be vialed in, doesn't require a splash, gives you a blocker/attacker and can target creatures (except for Mongoose).
This is noted, except that Results don't always equate to Optimal, and none of the lists mentioned are running Orim's Chant.
This is noted, except that throwing arbitrary and probably exaggerated numbers around isn't a good way to make your point.
The bright side of this whole argument is that we aren't going to board in Krosan Grip to stop Counterbalance, we're going to board it in to kill Dreadnoughts and Mishra's Factories, and if Counterbalances happen to be included in the crossfire, yippy skippy.
How exactly is that more favorable than a card that for two mana kills either of the cards you mentioned?
Vialable means that it isn't counterable, against Dreadnought that's worth something. Stingscourger offers a lot, whether it's removing a blocker or a key creature against a deck playing creatures it should always be effective. Warren's Weirding is much more conditional in that respect.
Stingscourger wouldn't be counterable with vial, but it can be stifled. I hear Dreadnoughts come with those.Vialable means that it isn't counterable, against Dreadnought that's worth something.
Phyrexian Dreadnought is backup up by Mishra's Factory and Trinket Mage making it hard to hit with Warren Weirding (If it can get past the counters at all).
They need Stifle for their Dreadnought and they have a lot more countermagic than stifles in their deck.Stingscourger wouldn't be counterable with vial, but it can be stifled. I hear Dreadnoughts come with those.
Team America can remove your splash as early as turn 2-3 with Extirpate on your Badland. Stingscourger will also solve any problem that Tombstalker will give you. That leaves your goblins combined with Bloodmark Mentor to keep the Goyfs at bay while you your Siege-Gang Commanders win the game.
no, you dont need ebay and only ebay to get cards. however, ebay has the largest carpool to choose from out of anywhere else on the planet. buying cards from websites dealing in mtg resale has buyers at best, paying average prices and and worst paying exaggerated and outdated prices. also, those sites dont re-up on old stock at the rate it gets posted on ebay.
saying that foreign countries have equal access to a niche market collectable item on the same scale as that items country of origin is not only dense by incredbily biased as well.
ok, staying in 2008, there was a recent 1st place, beating out ichorid, merfolk, ichorid and solidarity. hardly the best decks in the format. aside from that, there wasnt a 1st place from RW goblins for 7 months before that, from december back to may. nothing. sure it had some wins going back from may into 2007, but warren weirding wasnt even released until february 2008.
stp
+1 can target
+1 one mana cc
warren weirding
+1 tutorable
+1 can be grabbed with ringleader
+1 can be recured with wart, for the people who insist on running wart
+1 can also possibly cost one mana with warchief out
they only made the right meta call if they got first place. disenchant in inferior to grip, thats almost as bad as suggesting R/G or R/G/B lists run naturalize.
Goblin Razerunners
2rr
Creature - Goblin Shaman? Rare
1{R}, Sacrifice a land : Put a +1/+1 counter on Goblin Razerunners.
At the end of your turn, you may have Goblin Razerunners deal damage to target player equal to the number of +1/+1 counters on Goblin Razerunners.
3/4
Looks pretty decent, except for being a huge lightning rod and potential graham's-number-for-one but I'm gonna try this guy out anyway.
Hello friend.
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