Ha ha omg, i did mess that kid up...ha ha, totally blanked that game on threads.
Ya my vial stays at three. My board is weird right now...
Kira in my board just won mirror match.
QUIT double-posting or I'll start handing out warnings.
-TOOL
Best play in magic: Tundra, vial, - Force vial-Daze force...I win.
How about a couple of MD SoLS/SoFI?
Since our creatures suck so much alone, this would at least make a solo creature a significant threat.
I'd lean more towards SoLS for pro spot removal, creature recursion, and a greater life swing.
It might be a little expensive, but who knows (I just thought of it now and don't have time to test).
Are you talking about the game we had on MWS ? Seriously guy, kira didn't do anything at all there. You won both the matches because you drew far better than me (i always got cursecatchers or adepts, no lords at all or thrashers). I think that, to prove if she's effectively consistent and has a function, you should test against decks like the Rock or Goyf Sligh. Kira doesn't resolve almost anything with MUC, since the only things that targets in a normal MUC is Shackles, and at this point i prefer to prevent shackles by running the far more polivalent needles in sb. Also, i quote Phoenix when he says that an early jitte hurts so much our army, SO MUCH. And you can't always hope to arginate their creatures, since this deck doesn't run removals at all.Originally Posted by JohnnyCage
Pithing Needle is required , in this deck. The aforementioned cards, along with other bitches such as Lavamancer, Powder keg ( returning to the MUC issue) and also Top + CB, hurt this deck and not in a small impact.
Also, I really don't understand how threads can be good. Leave them to faeries, who have controllish abilites but smaller body. Merfolks have a faster race, they can handle the majority of the threats. The things that could worry really are dreadnought , tombstalker, and sometimes also Exalted angel or a pumped Rakdos pit dragon, and none of these creatures have cmc< or = 2. tarmogoyf, with the add of relics, has become hugely less offensive, i guess.
What other shall we fear ? Lavamancer, ok. But is it really worth to spend 3 mana to steal a cc1 creature? better to stop it with needle. Not to mention that, against dreadstill , it's easier for the opponent to daze a 3 cc enchantment in a easier way.
Do you hate Echoing truths so much?
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Kira isn't in place of Needle. It's in place of the 3 chill or 3 hydroblasts. It just helps out that she is great against MUC and I guess good in the mirror match.
Although it is a bit funny how defensive you are of losing to him. If Dreadnought is large in your area I see no reason to not add in Threads. I don't think it's good enough for me, but the card is pretty hot on its own.
Some people just hate losing, but don't feel bad i did like win the last world legacy championship.
Best play in magic: Tundra, vial, - Force vial-Daze force...I win.
Yeah baby, we're all to serve you in fact, since you're the next big think in legacy, i guess.
However, I wasn't trying to defense my defeat, but just to underline how, in that matches, Kira didn't do anything at all. Merfolks did it, not Kira. We're now discussing about her utility and her single role, not about the whole match.
But I still feel she's a little too slow for increasing the chances to race Goyf Sligh's cc1 removals, though.And i fear that , when you drop kira, the opponent just won't care anymore about burning your creatures and he'll begin to burn your (already low, i suppose) points and mass-attack, leaving you very little time to pull off a decent army or to organize a "defense".
Just my thought, in any case.
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Yeah baby, we're all to serve you in fact, since you're the next big think in legacy, i guess.
However, I wasn't trying to defense my defeat, but just to underline how, in that matches, Kira didn't do anything at all. Merfolks did it, not Kira. We're now discussing about her utility and her single role, not about the whole match.
But I still feel she's a little too slow for increasing the chances to race Goyf Sligh's cc1 removals, though.And i fear that , when you drop kira, the opponent just won't care anymore about burning your creatures and he'll begin to burn your (already low, i suppose) points and mass-attack, leaving you very little time to pull off a decent army or to organize a "defense".
Just my thought, in any case.
Ha Ha u called me baby...but anyways, the relic of pro is the reason we can race goyf, and kira greatly improves our bad get our dudes killed matchups...im now trying two main instead of threads.
Best play in magic: Tundra, vial, - Force vial-Daze force...I win.
See, that's all I was saying. He's the non-merfolk lord that merfolk needed. Crystalline merfolk, if you will.
If it's so bleak that shutting down their removal on our creatures has no effect then screw it, I'm just going to start playing goyf sligh and go Super Sayan 3 on everyone's ass. Like Johnny said, having relic shuts down goyf, so they shouldn't be doing assloads of damage without getting lucky with a couple Figure of Destinys. After hitting Kira (and honestly, you saying it takes too long really invalidates playing Thrasher and Reejery), the game really does swing your way. Kira is good against most removal in the game, there really isn't a good reason for her to not be in the deck. It's like relic, sure it's only good against 80% of the decks out there, but that is obviously something you want in the maindeck.
BTW, ignition, divert has been better then chill for burn and goyfsligh, their land count is low enough to support it.
Best play in magic: Tundra, vial, - Force vial-Daze force...I win.
I know, that was never an issue, I've been using 3 divert for a lot of different decks that it's good against.
Kira, again, was only replacing the chills.
3 divert were always in the sideboard.
I guess, since it's come up twice, I should post my new sideboard.
2 Kira (2 mainboard already)
3-4 Divert
2-3 Pithing needle
2-3 Propaganda
3 Echoing Truth
0-3 open slot (back to basics)
Been following this discussion for a while. Sound like Kira is to merfolk what Wirewood Symbiote is to elves, to a certain extend anyway. Keeping your lords alive is of importance so protecting them makes sense.
There's another way to protect your dudes and that's by splashing white with Syg, River guide. Just like with goblins, you might want to consider splashing a color for off-color utility... can't imagine that having access to STP as well is a bad thing either..
I'm up to 3 Kira, main, they have been incredible, my board has been 4 Divert, 3 Mind harness, 3 echoing truth, 2 propaganda, 3 back to basics. I still don't like needle. Why are we running it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nessaja View Post
Been following this discussion for a while. Sound like Kira is to merfolk what Wirewood Symbiote is to elves, to a certain extend anyway. Keeping your lords alive is of importance so protecting them makes sense.
There's another way to protect your dudes and that's by splashing white with Syg, River guide. Just like with goblins, you might want to consider splashing a color for off-color utility... can't imagine that having access to STP as well is a bad thing either..
We run back to basics side however, and syg is to mana intensive to keep going.
Last edited by JohnnyCage; 01-10-2009 at 08:21 PM.
Best play in magic: Tundra, vial, - Force vial-Daze force...I win.
*sigh* see this is where I wish I could use Johnny's answer that got him a warning.
Is it possible to read the thread before giving "ideas" that have already been discussed thoroughly and thrown out. Is it possible to be a contributing member to this thread without having to give a reason every other day why certain ideas are good or bad. Is there any possible way for someone to read the discussion on the deck they've been contributing to and playing for a month without having to answer the most redundant questions or "incites" without going insane!?
No, the whole point of the deck is that splashing a color is not necessary. The whole thread has been showing that. Yes, if we want to splash a crappy 2/2 for 2 who eats mana like there's no tomorrow to possibly be a secondary (and crappy) Mother of Runes that actually helps the deck, we already would have. Swords to Plowshares has been suggested a countless number of times, and just isn't necessary. Splashing in the extra colors makes us susceptible to all of the mana-base hate that has been making tier 1 decks win. We nullify so many of their cards by just going mono blue with mutavaults.
EDIT:
Jitte, any other equipments (pre-emptively shuts down every equipment), and mainly SDT which with Counterbalance is a huge bitch. Seismic Assault, Mishra's Factories (landstill is sometimes a problem) and even vial or sharpshooter or siege gang against gobbos. Also, at Monster Den it shuts down the random Cursed Scrolls.
*sigh* see this is where I wish I could use Johnny's answer that got him a warning.
Is it possible to read the thread before giving "ideas" that have already been discussed thoroughly and thrown out. Is it possible to be a contributing member to this thread without having to give a reason every other day why certain ideas are good or bad. Is there any possible way for someone to read the discussion on the deck they've been contributing to and playing for a month without having to answer the most redundant questions or "incites" without going insane!?
No, the whole point of the deck is that splashing a color is not necessary. The whole thread has been showing that. Yes, if we want to splash a crappy 2/2 for 2 who eats mana like there's no tomorrow to possibly be a secondary (and crappy) Mother of Runes that actually helps the deck, we already would have. Swords to Plowshares has been suggested a countless number of times, and just isn't necessary. Splashing in the extra colors makes us susceptible to all of the mana-base hate that has been making tier 1 decks win. We nullify so many of their cards by just going mono blue with mutavaults.
EDIT:
Jitte, any other equipments (pre-emptively shuts down every equipment), and mainly SDT which with Counterbalance is a huge bitch. Seismic Assault, Mishra's Factories (landstill is sometimes a problem) and even vial or sharpshooter or siege gang against gobbos. Also, at Monster Den it shuts down the random Cursed Scrolls.
I know right...But i honestly would rather have the 60/40 we have because of those problems and sow up goyfsligh then run needle, we have vial and three drops for top. Assualt is too slow and back to basics is better. And goblins aren't even in our meta anymore. And Kira eats curse scroll...
Best play in magic: Tundra, vial, - Force vial-Daze force...I win.
Well in our meta I haven't seen goyfsligh yet. And really, there's probably 50% of the decks that run Aggro Loam, whicch needle is better against. Granted, aggro loam has an answer to pretty much everything, but if they actually do land a seismic assault against our little fishes it's a land to kill each (or 2 to kill Kira first) and then it's over. BEBs might be of more use just to kill them, but needles will probably help us more.I know right...But i honestly would rather have the 60/40 we have because of those problems and sow up goyfsligh then run needle, we have vial and three drops for top assualt is too slow and back to basics is better. And goblins aren't even in our meta anymore. And Kira eats curse scroll...
I also realize that we can beat Aggro Loam with a Relic, but they also can run pithing needles, so adding in an extra few cards is definitely worth it.
Get off your high horse sir, I was by no means under the impression that I was either suggesting something different nor innovative. I said that the only other way to protect your lords was by splashing white and that is in fact correct - nothing new nor innovative - merely a realization. If we take that we want to protect our creatures to the extend that it makes or breaks the deck then either the white splash needs to be reconsidered or you play Kira simple as that.
I'm not in full agreement with you that splashing a color would totally destroy the deck - nor everyone else that claims so for that matter. But that wasn't the point.
He isn't on a high horse, he was saying why he has to repeat a reason that the general population has considered to be optimal. If you choose for your mefolk to run white and have bad grizzly bears that chew up the little mana we run then do so, but people have already figured out white is not the proper direction and have moved on from that conversation. We only ask you do not pull us back to dicuss that which has already been discussed. Thank you.
Best play in magic: Tundra, vial, - Force vial-Daze force...I win.
OK been following this thread with interest and preparing the next tourney Iam going to test the following list:
//Lands (19)
12 [MR] Island
4 [TE] Wasteland
3 [MOR] Mutavault
//Creatures (20)
4 [u] Lord of Atlantis
4 [LRW] Merrow Reejerey
4 [LRW] Silvergill Adept
2 [EVE] Wake Thrasher
4 [SHM] Cursecatcher
2 [SOK] Kira
//Spells (21)
4 [OD] Standstill
4 [DS] Aether Vial
3 [NE] Daze
3 [SC] Stifle
3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
4 [AL] Force of Will
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [MI] Mind Harness
SB: 3 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [5E] Divert
SB: 1 [MM] Misdirection
SB: 3 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 2 [SOK] Kira
Thoughts on changes maindeck: For I couldnt find an adequate 20th creature I will now try Kira as well. I reduced the list by one Wake Trasher to make room for 2 Kira because running 1 just seems random. One Daze had to go as well. As has been said, Daze is only good during the first turns, later on ppl tend to play around it. That was my impression in many games. I would like to up Stifle to 4 because in 75% of all games it would have been the correct number. Unfortunately there are these games were you just need none, so in the end I guess 3 is OK. Have you considered running the 4th sideboard? Relic of Pro now is 3 main instead of one.
Thoughts on SB: Now this is difficult. Due to having Kira main, 2 more to complete the playset against direct targeting seems obvious. It more or less fills the slot of Hydroblast potentially doing much more then its predecessor if you can make it hit the board. 3 Divert (only three for the same reason as Daze) and 1 Misdirection. They also are a reason not to play Hydroblast and they are not that color specific. 1 Misdirection because it is better on the draw and lategame. Echoing Truth as solution to so many things. Mainly putting the two main from previous list to the SB. 3 Pithing Needle against Jitte and Enginnered Explosives (which I see regularly in our meta). It surely is good against so many other things. 3 Mind Harness at last although Iam not so sure about them. Of course it is great to steal a big red or green creature but then, Goyf should be small, DragonStompy we own anyway ... so is there such a lot of guys we love to take over?
Not running BtB or Propanganda. BtB too many ppl are expecting and are prepared to effects like this, especially after playing Game 1 against Stifle and Wasteland. Propaganda just does not seem necessary in our meta. Looking forward reading your opinion on my list soon.
Just a question to those who run Kira maindeck and have tested enough: How do you feel having 8 3-cc creatures ? Does this compromise the speed of the deck , risking to rely too much on aether vial to cast them and being forced to slow down the game in the first turns, or nothing changed ? because, at this point, if kira is being run and the mana curve gets higher, we'd have to slow down a bit the opponent... perhaps Rishadan Port here can find an adequate application.
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@Nekrataal:
List looks exactly like what I would run, sideboard doesn't need mind harness in my opinion but if your meta has rampant red/green creatures then go for it. Propaganda is mainly against goblins/elves/mirror/ whatever super aggro decks you can find. Also game over vs. ichorid, and extremely helpful if people try to empty the warrens (which happens more than you'd think since we have so much disruption they might not be able to gete 10 storm). You could fit in the extra stifle, but I like B2B just because I run into a lot of aggro loam/landstill where i play.
I wouldn't say this slows down the deck any just because the creatures we replace are either Tidal Warrior (who sucks, lets face it) or Whirlpool Rider (who doesn't go aggro). Kira, however, wins games by herself, saving the rest of the creatures so we can go aggro. Also 2/2 flying, while not an ideal power for an aggro deck, at least has evasion and gets 2 damage in there each turn. I really haven't minded having 8 3cc creatures, because it's better to have a heavy top end for vial to sit on and know that you will be hitting more 3cc than 2cc creatures (before it was 8-6, now it's 8-8). 3cc also usually gets around countertop, which isn't a bad thing in general.
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