[Deck] UW(x) Landstill

[Citrus-God]

As I havent gotten to play with it is espeth a real game changer? Dif and I were talking about it in theory but I have not been able to play one as of yet.

It's good if you run Humilities. Play those, stall, land a Humility and make everything indestructible eventually. Elspeth is an amazing card, but the problem I personally have with her is the fact she costs 27 bucks.

[rockout]

It's good if you run Humilities. Play those, stall, land a Humility and make everything indestructible eventually. Elspeth is an amazing card, but the problem I personally have with her is the fact she costs 27 bucks.

Crack them in boosters by winning a draft the day before the tournament where Elspeth and legal and go to town like this guy.

[3duece]

Martial Coup - XWW
Sorcery (R)
Put X 1/1 white Soldier creature tokens into play. If X is 5 or greater, destroy all other creatures.

Anyone seen this? I know its no decree or elspeth but it seems strong, specifically with the wrath ability, under humility or not. I don't know, not bad as a one or two of. Thoughts?

[rockout]

Martial Coup - XWW
Sorcery (R)
Put X 1/1 white Soldier creature tokens into play. If X is 5 or greater, destroy all other creatures.

Anyone seen this? I know its no decree or elspeth but it seems strong, specifically with the wrath ability, under humility or not. I don't know, not bad as a one or two of. Thoughts?

I definitely think it's good, but it's nothing like instant, uncounterable soldiers in your face like decree.

[Misplayer]

I have a couple of questions about UWb Landstill, specifically the inclusion of Brainstorm. I'm not a big Landstill player so you'll have to bear with me. In lists like konsultant's, is it there mostly to keep the blue card count high enough to run Force of Will? I understand it's one of the most powerful cards in the format, but it seems like an E. Tutor package would be more synergistic with the deck and would allow for the inclusion of powerful 1-ofs such as Crucible or Humility (neither of which are apparently necessary, although rockout seemed to like his crucible). However, that cuts the non-Force blue card count down to 12 which seems way too low, and then you're pitching much more powerful cards like FoF/Standstill (cards that provide actual card advantage) or other counterspells. This combined with E. Tutor providing card disadvantage and I can see why Brainstorm gets a spot in the deck. If I'm way off in my assumption please let me know.

Secondly, on (non-Factory) win conditions, konsultant's list with 3x Decree and 2x Dragon and rockout's list with 2x Elspeth, 2x Decree and 1x Dragon both seem like a lot when this deck runs such powerful draw spells and doesn't need to see a win-con until the mid to late game. Are 4+ win-cons necessary to prevent massive amounts of drawn rounds? I apologize if this is the stuff you learn in Landstill kindergarten, but again, I'm not as familiar with the deck.

[Citrus-God]

I have a couple of questions about UWb Landstill, specifically the inclusion of Brainstorm. I'm not a big Landstill player so you'll have to bear with me. In lists like konsultant's, is it there mostly to keep the blue card count high enough to run Force of Will? I understand it's one of the most powerful cards in the format, but it seems like an E. Tutor package would be more synergistic with the deck and would allow for the inclusion of powerful 1-ofs such as Crucible or Humility (neither of which are apparently necessary, although rockout seemed to like his crucible). However, that cuts the non-Force blue card count down to 12 which seems way too low, and then you're pitching much more powerful cards like FoF/Standstill (cards that provide actual card advantage) or other counterspells. This combined with E. Tutor providing card disadvantage and I can see why Brainstorm gets a spot in the deck. If I'm way off in my assumption please let me know.

The concept of running Brainstorm is simple in this deck; you tend to cast Brainstorm when you're looking for a specific card, optimizing or hitting UU on Turn 2 to have Counterspell mana open (even for bluffing purposes). Yes, you can run more cards in place of Brainstorm like say 2 more Fact or Fictions or a playset of Spell Snares. The problem with this is that you won't be able to capitalize on your draw spells as well as you used to and you have to mulligan more hands.

The Blue count in Landstill has always been 18 Blue cards minimum. The reasoning for that is that you don't really cast FoW early game often unless it is against combo. Against Threshold or other random aggro decks, you tend to save FoW in your hand to help reinforce your board sweepers and removal. So personally, I wouldn't go any lower than that.

ETutor must be used in addition to Brainstorm, otherwise it just sucks. It's also a shuffle effect, so why would you exclude Brainstorm here?

Secondly, on (non-Factory) win conditions, konsultant's list with 3x Decree and 2x Dragon and rockout's list with 2x Elspeth, 2x Decree and 1x Dragon both seem like a lot when this deck runs such powerful draw spells and doesn't need to see a win-con until the mid to late game. Are 4+ win-cons necessary to prevent massive amounts of drawn rounds? I apologize if this is the stuff you learn in Landstill kindergarten, but again, I'm not as familiar with the deck.

Landstill actually finishes rounds quickly if you've practiced with your deck. You should be making quick and decisive decisions since many decisions tend to become quite intuitive. Rabid Wombat, many claimed, had the same problem simply because it's a control deck. All the good players played Wombat well within round time because they have experience with the deck. Good players should always be able to play Control well within the 50 min round limit.

As for the extra win conditions, it's just to diversify win conditions and control mechanics. Elspeth is basically a Bitterblossom that makes Humility indestructible as the game progresses. Why you're running her is because she's just synergistic and aggressive.


I have tested extensively with Elspeth, but I am saddened because Elspeths are 30 dollars. : (

[mossivo1986]

The concept of running Brainstorm is simple in this deck; you tend to cast Brainstorm when you're looking for a specific card, optimizing or hitting UU on Turn 2 to have Counterspell mana open (even for bluffing purposes). Yes, you can run more cards in place of Brainstorm like say 2 more Fact or Fictions or a playset of Spell Snares. The problem with this is that you won't be able to capitalize on your draw spells as well as you used to and you have to mulligan more hands.

The Blue count in Landstill has always been 18 Blue cards minimum. The reasoning for that is that you don't really cast FoW early game often unless it is against combo. Against Threshold or other random aggro decks, you tend to save FoW in your hand to help reinforce your board sweepers and removal. So personally, I wouldn't go any lower than that.

ETutor must be used in addition to Brainstorm, otherwise it just sucks. It's also a shuffle effect, so why would you exclude Brainstorm here?



Landstill actually finishes rounds quickly if you've practiced with your deck. You should be making quick and decisive decisions since many decisions tend to become quite intuitive. Rabid Wombat, many claimed, had the same problem simply because it's a control deck. All the good players played Wombat well within round time because they have experience with the deck. Good players should always be able to play Control well within the 50 min round limit.

As for the extra win conditions, it's just to diversify win conditions and control mechanics. Elspeth is basically a Bitterblossom that makes Humility indestructible as the game progresses. Why you're running her is because she's just synergistic and aggressive.


I have tested extensively with Elspeth, but I am saddened because Elspeths are 30 dollars. : (

So I guess that answer would be Library manipulation is something that landstill thrives on to control the early game and get into th late game where it has inevitability against most decks in this format.

Some newer builds are running a recent addition of ponder as it allows you to continuously dig and keep your library t3 in good shape. This is exceptionally usefull against decks with hymn or decks with top because it allows you to keep up with their card manipulation as well.

Though I do agree that elspeths final ability is relevant with humility I would say its more about making your factories/soldier tokens indestructable then humility per say. Now granted humility + elspeth is just wicked.

That said I did want to ask if people are more willing to sac at 8 or if they tend to go to 9 to keep her in play? I tend to go to 9 just to play carefully, but I don't know if theres a tempo difference. I also tend to make my tokens and be passive with them if my opponent has opposing mishra's or goyf or almost anything in play because for the most part I can wait them out and go inevitable like I said before.

Also has anyone tested relic in the main? My testing results of dif's list have been very successfull with it as goyf and tombstalker are a thriving part of the metagame right now.

thoughts? Feelings? Donations? j/k :)

-Joel.

[Irish_Mafia]

I could see how relic would be useful in the main, but the problem is what would you cut from the main for it. I mean you already have 3 wraths, EE, and humility to deal with those creatures.

[mossivo1986]

I could see how relic would be useful in the main, but the problem is what would you cut from the main for it. I mean you already have 3 wraths, EE, and humility to deal with those creatures.

Landstill is HIGHLY interchangable unlike some other decks in this format, and one of the key bonus's is that there really is no limit to where this deck can go. "see dreadstill." Bottom line if you want to metagame correctly then it can very well be the dtb at any tourney.

[Citrus-God]

That said I did want to ask if people are more willing to sac at 8 or if they tend to go to 9 to keep her in play? I tend to go to 9 just to play carefully, but I don't know if theres a tempo difference. I also tend to make my tokens and be passive with them if my opponent has opposing mishra's or goyf or almost anything in play because for the most part I can wait them out and go inevitable like I said before.

I wouldn't dismiss her first ability that much; I mean, she's a Bitterblossom for godsakes! Granted, that's not a reason to run Bitterblossom, but her 3rd ability is reason enough.

I tend to crack her on 8 when I have a DoJ or 2nd Humility in hand or if I'm facing Grips. It makes sense to crack her ASAP then.

[mossivo1986]

I wouldn't dismiss her first ability that much; I mean, she's a Bitterblossom for godsakes! Granted, that's not a reason to run Bitterblossom, but her 3rd ability is reason enough.

I tend to crack her on 8 when I have a DoJ or 2nd Humility in hand or if I'm facing Grips. It makes sense to crack her ASAP then.

I dont know if it's even worth it. The ends justify the means to me enough to keep her alive most of the time I would say. Especially against decks packing stifle. And alot of people out there playing random decks know that if they dont use their grips quick they just sit in their hand as dead cards as more then likely im not going to give up the prize after ive seen the bait in the previous game.

bottom line I totally agree with elspeth and all of my playtesting shows its amazing, but the question remains 1-2. Alot of lists ive seen run 1, but I do usually feel like 2 for the standard lists is a must.

[Citrus-God]

I dont know if it's even worth it. The ends justify the means to me enough to keep her alive most of the time I would say. Especially against decks packing stifle. And alot of people out there playing random decks know that if they dont use their grips quick they just sit in their hand as dead cards as more then likely im not going to give up the prize after ive seen the bait in the previous game.

It shouldn't matter really, because your Factories are indestructible then. Even if they do Stifle your DoJ, you still have more better creatures than they do.

bottom line I totally agree with elspeth and all of my playtesting shows its amazing, but the question remains 1-2. Alot of lists ive seen run 1, but I do usually feel like 2 for the standard lists is a must.

I playtested with 2 copies of Elspeth. She's amazing. Only problem is actually finding copies of her and having them be affordable. I refuse to spend 30 bucks on a magic card right now though. I already bought the staples, so yeah...

[Benie Bederios]

It shouldn't matter really, because your Factories are indestructible then. Even if they do Stifle your DoJ, you still have more better creatures than they do.

Didn't he mean someone Stifled Elspeth, when you remove eight of eight counters??

BB

[Citrus-God]

Didn't he mean someone Stifled Elspeth, when you remove eight of eight counters??

BB

I don't think you can Stifle Planeswalkers. I'm not completely sure of this atm, but if it does, then it really just comes down to what decks you play against. I can see myself moving up to 9 counters pre-board, but post-board, I might be more aggressive with Elspeth.

[GUnit]

You can absolutely stifle the activated abilities on planeswalkers.

[FredMaster]

You can absolutely stifle the activated abilities on planeswalkers.

Therefore you can even Needle them :/

[rockout]

I would hope I wouldn't be a bad enough player to walk into a stifle on my ultimate activation.

I found a post about planeswalker's abilities being activated if you want to do a quick read.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...t=planeswalker

[thefreakaccident]

I don't understand why Konsultant's list does not include sensei's divining top...


The card has been my MVP every game I have played in the last two months.

It does everything this decks needs:

1. early landdrops
2. lategame push
3. plays under standstill amazingly


The card has been nutz, especially since it allows me to run a slightly lower land count (23 from 24, not big, but still), and it allows me to play the powerhouse of a card we know as counterbalance in the board.

Counterbalance usually comes in for humilities/Wogs against combo/burn, and it usually works out great as the curve lowers with its' inclusion... and it shuts them down (plus I also run runed halo for those MUs as well)...

Combo has been amazing for me postboard as of late.


I also want to discuss elseph...

I tested her for a couple of days, and I didn't like her too much... It felt like I was simply stallblocking with the tokens until I could get something else... she was great w/ humility, but that doesn't really matter as you usually just win with humility anyways.

I think that she is not worth the slot IMO, at least not for my metagame.

[Irish_Mafia]

I would rather bring in Runed Halo and Meddling mage over counterbalance. counterbalance is awesome but it requires top. Where as Halo or MM requires just one card to be effective.

Although top could be a good inclusion into the deck.

And as for elspeth, the card is amazing. It pumps out blockers if needed. and makes the mirror a joke. Not only if it gets to 8 you win but it makes factories and such able to deal a lot of damage. It is amazing under standstill. I am in love with the card.

[Team-Hero]

I would rather bring in Runed Halo and Meddling mage over counterbalance. counterbalance is awesome but it requires top. Where as Halo or MM requires just one card to be effective.

Is Meddling Mage better than Runed Halo in the side?
I'm just really scared of AngelStaX. Other than Sacred Ground, what else is good against them?