[OLD] UGr Threshold

[Arkarian]

I've been meditating more about the Tempo Threshold sideboard... A sideboard like: 4x REB 4x Submerge 2x Pyroclasm 2x Krosan grip 2x Gilded drake 1x EE wouldn't be ok? I mean, with Submerge Gilded drake is cool and in a desperate situation we can stifle him to have a 3/3 flyer; it's also useful against Ichorid because if you don't want to exchange it goes to the graveyard, removing bridges... The lack of Tormod's crypt could be bad, but stealing the opponents creatures could be interesting. What do you think?

[sauce]

I've been meditating more about the Tempo Threshold sideboard... A sideboard like: 4x REB 4x Submerge 2x Pyroclasm 2x Krosan grip 2x Gilded drake 1x EE wouldn't be ok? I mean, with Submerge Gilded drake is cool and in a desperate situation we can stifle him to have a 3/3 flyer; it's also useful against Ichorid because if you don't want to exchange it goes to the graveyard, removing bridges... The lack of Tormod's crypt could be bad, but stealing the opponents creatures could be interesting. What do you think?

your ichorid matchup is never going to be positive unless your whole board is dedicated to it, imho... you just burn their guys so they have a hard time dread returning/cabal therapying you and swing in with goyfs while wastelanding/stifling the coliseum threshold and forcing the breakthrough.

[Arsenal]

Is there a clear cut verdict on Quirion Dryad vs. Werebear? On deckcheck.net, I see them both being played with reasonable frequency, and each creature has advantages/disadvantages that are unique. Is it a personal preference or is there a legitimate reason why one is supposed to be run over the other?

[sauce]

can someone share their experience vs geddon-staxx?
my board has:
2 annul
3 krosan grip

i think spell snare is only useful vs chalice @ 1 in this matchup, but still i would keep it as i can pitch it to force otherwise.. im not sure if i should just take out 2 spell snares for 2 annul and then 3 bolts for 3 grips?

i know fire/ice is ok to tap down trinisphere during their eot so you can cast some spells on your turn or tap down magus to get in for dmg w/ goyf...

daze is really good as they often times tap out to cast their bombs.

the worst card for us in this matchup seems to be crucible cuz i only auto lose to that resolving due to wasteland lock = gg.

stifle seems to help alot against their wastelands as well while we wasteland their stompy lands...

how do you guys play against this matchup besides what i mentioned?
what type of hands do you try to mull into besides the obv FoW/annul/grip combos?

[spirit of the wretch]

So I won the monthly Hassloch tournament yesterday (35 people) playing my latest Next Level Grow list that featured 2 Snakeform and 3 Fire/Ice in the metagame-slots. Despite playing the Grow-mirror for 5 straight matches Snakeform never did anything for me other than pitch to FoW. Pretty disappointing! F/I wasn't that great either, but as it really shines in the Tribal-Aggro MU, cycles, pitches to FoW and provides reach, I'll keep playing them.
At the moment I'm tinkering with Vedillion Clique or more likely Krosan Grip (yeah, a fricking third of the decks played yesterday contained CB) to replace Snakeform.
Anyway, has any of you guys some tech to make the mirror (against Thresh with CB) more favorable?
Oh, and Quirion Dryade is a real powerhouse! MVP all day.

[Smog]

Has this build ever considered dropping a couple of each dual to get some basics in to help against b2b / wasteland lock / etc?

[spirit of the wretch]

When it comes to nonbasic hate, I think the manabase is pretty resistant (as a matter of fact, it's the old MoonThresh manabase):
Blood Moon doesn't effect this deck all too much, if you get down an island and an forest (Magus of the Moon isn't a problem at all, obviously).
You can play around BtB if you expect it (and in MU where you expect BtB post board, you most likely want to board in some Pyroblasts anyway).
The only concern are recurring Wastelands. I never had a problem with the manabase (and haven't even thought about changing it since I picked up the deck), but if nonbasic hate runs rampant in your metagame you can go down to two copies of each dual and 5 basic lands (Clemens Thresh/w list ran this configuration).

[Muradin]

If you want to improve your matchup against CB Threshold you should probably be running some Krosan Grips in your sideboard. Besides I think that you build is already quite well equipped for the mirror match. Another possibility might be the addition of some Spell Snares in the maindeck as they are quite versatile and can counter some of the most important cards in the CB-Threshold mirror (Goyf, CB). At least that's what they are supposed to do in this matchup when you are playing with Canadian Threshold against Counterbalance Threshold.

[Shugyosha]

Anyway, has any of you guys some tech to make the mirror (against Thresh with CB) more favorable?
Oh, and Quirion Dryade is a real powerhouse! MVP all day.

With so many CB in your meta I would consider Vexing Shusher, so you won't always loose if your opponent has Balance first.
Cryptic Command is also quite nice in mirrors and against control if you can get to 5 mana (against Daze).

[Smog]

What is the general concensus in regards to countertop or trigon in a canadian thrash build? Or does their inclusion take it too far from tradition for the deck to even be called that?

[sauce]

What is the general concensus in regards to countertop or trigon in a canadian thrash build? Or does their inclusion take it too far from tradition for the deck to even be called that?

cb is too slow when youre trying to stifle/wasteland things. trygon can go in the board if you really want it. i rather play grip.

[Enigma]

I've just partcipated to the Time walk beta tournament in Montreal. There was 55 players and I finish 5th with Next Level Grow /r, here's my list:


// Lands
2 Polluted Delta
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
3 Island
1 Forest
3 Flooded Strand

// Creatures
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Trygon Predator

// Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Daze
2 Predict
4 Force of Will
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Fire/Ice
1 Pithing Needle

// Sideboard
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Price of Progress
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Firespout
SB: 2 Pyroclasm
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Pithing Needle

I was anticipating a lot of Landstill (they all play Elspeth or Deed) so I really wanted something against Elspeth MD, which been the Needle. I also knew a couple of guys playing chalice.dec (1x Dragon Stompy, 2x Faerie Stompy, 1x Stax...) so I decided to play the trygons MD as Stefen(spirit of the wretch) does. I decided to play the Goose and they have been so great all day long. Both Needle and Trygons has been good against Merfolk also which I faced thrice. A lot of aggro hate on the Board, and the top8 really sees how many aggro decks was present today:


1-2. Survival Elves
1-2. BW Fish (jitte, bob, Mother of runes, Serra avenger, Sinkhole...)
3-4. Merfolk
3-4. Merfolk
5. Next Level grow (me)
6. Eva green
7. ANT
8. UWB Landstill
(Not still sure about positions 6-8 but sure about mine)

What I faced:

First round:
1-2 against Merfolk

1: I win toss. I decide to go aggro with 2 goose and a goyf but wake thrasher + LoA has just been too much quick.
2. He play 2 vials but I kill all his creatures with Fire/ice, bolt and pyroblast and goes for the win with Trygon predator.
3. He forces my goyf. I'm able to take care of Loa and Reejerey but he's beating me down with 2 Cursecatcher. Trygon comes too late.

0-1

Second round:
2-0 against UGW Winter Thresh

1. Loss toss. He play Mox Diamond + goose first turn. I cast my mongoose. He's stick on 1 land + 1 Mox and I'm able to daze everything. I finish him with my gooses having thresh and goyf.
2. Pretty much the same scenario. I deal with everything he does except his Ghostly prisons, which I really don't care of. Goyf win.

1-1

Third round:
2-0 against UR Dreadstill

1. Loss toss. He mulligan at 6. I manage to have CB + goyf and bolting his Mishra's. I don't see a single stifle/Dreadnought but the standstill+volcanic says me it's dreadstill.
2. I go quick CB again and slowly go with mongoose and then Trygon predator which keep him far from top/relic/CB.

2-1

Fourth round:
2-0 against WB Fish

1. Loss toss. He plays first turn Mother of runes but I have needle for it. He's stuck on 2 lands and I daze pretty much everything and finish him with Goose + Tarmo even after 3 Path to exile on my tarmogoyfs.
2. I force his 1st turn vial when he kept a 1 land hand with 2x Mother of runes, 1x Dark confidant and 1 jitte. I fire/ice all his creatures and slowly go for boosted goose while he's again stuck on 2 lands.

3-1

Fifth round:
2-0 against Imperial Painter

1. Loss toss. 1st turn top for me. He takes me at 8 with an Imperial + a Painter but I have CB down. I finally find a goyf and a fire/ice + a bolt to attack on a clear board.
2. 1st turn top again and 3rd turn CB. Pretty much the same situation.

4-1

6th round:
2-1 against Merfolk

1. Win toss. 1st turn top. He puts me at 13 with Cursecatcher but my mongoose grow quickly and I manage to have 2 goyfs finishing the job.
2. I put him at 4 with goyf, predator and a goose but a shit turn with Wake + Loa puts be down on 1 turn.
3. CB + Needle on Vial shuts him down and double goyf finish the job.

5-1

Top 8:
0-2 against the same Merfolk

1. Loss toss. He has 2 quick Curse and me 1 goyf putting him at 7. He finds a Loa + Kira and he just goes more quick,
2. He calms my goyf with 2 relic and while he's at 11, he puts 6 merfolk on the same turn with Reejerey, untaping vial and lands + Loa. I find Pyroclasm next turn but it's been too much because he has Loa + 2 Reejerey so they are all 4/4 and 4/3.

I take the 40$ and let the aggro decks go top4.

[Omega]

I played at the same tournament but played something "weaker"

4 tarmogoyf
4 quirion dryad (he was MVP in most MU)
4 nimble mongoose

4 fow
4 daze

4 brainstorm
4 ponder
3 sleight of hand (worst card, ever)

4 lighting bolt
3 fire/ice
1 rolling earthquake (good all day)

2 krosan grip (I met 0 CB... 0 dreadstilll)
2 rushing River (one of the worst card, of my deck)

18 lands

2-0 Against Dragon Stompy. He mulls to five, so just win. Game 2, I somehow survive to trinisphere and Blood Moon. My Quirion Dryad was 9/9 and beat him to death

1-2 Against Painter Servant : He goes nuts game 1, and i lose because i keep bad hands. Game 2, he goes nuts again. Turn 1 painter (no counter from me, yea). He plays 4 Red Blast on me, so im stuck with 0 lands

2-0 Against Goblin. Game one, i simply own him with Tarmogoyf and Quirion Dryad (have i said how much i love them?)
Game 2, i have a triple pyroclasm hand, 1 ponder, 1 mongoose and 2 fetch. The game is won already. (Well not already, my ponder could have failed me...)

2-0 Against Counterslive. Game one, i double force of will to save my tarmogoyf (he stp, i fow, he fows, i fow again). I win the game. Game two, my quirion dryads were 6/6 and 7/7. The beat him down to death.

1-2 Against Merfolk. Game one, i lose because i can't read cards, or because i can't judge a card. He played Wake ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresher (+1/1 when you untap permanent). I can burn it, i dont. So i attack, he obviously doesnt block. He start tapping his vial and turn his muta into man. He untaps 6 permanents and swing for 7. Im still not burning. He swings again. Im down to 4. And suddenly, i realize how strong Wake ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresher is. I burn it. But the game is already over. GG me.
Game two. Quirion Dryads do what they are supposed to do (he had 2 relic of progenitus in play. LAUGH!)
Game Three : I keep a crappy hand (im good at this). 2 land, 1 sleight of hand (have i said how bad these were?), 2 quirion dryad, 1 nimble mongoose, 1 tarmogoyf. He wins the game, because i dont see anything blue/red after that sleight of hand.

Im 3-2, i know im out. So i play out. 0-2 against aggro loam.

Anyway, it was a good tournament. Red Thresh is best at against tribal deck. But i feel it is not good enough against mirror or control. Needs more tuning and testings

Robert

[cwt1220]

I don't know if this has been talked about before or not, but is volcanic fallout better than pyroclasm in the board? I can't decide what I want to play in Chicago. They both have there pros and cons, but I would like to hear from other players on the subject. Thanks

-Chris-

[Smog]

I prefer pyroclasm as it comes online a turn earlier.

[spirit of the wretch]

In my opinion Pyroclasm > Firesprout >> Volcanic Fallout.

Fallout basically only has the advanage in the Merfolk MU and even there the casting cost of Pyroclasm might also do the trick (read: protect you from Daze and Cursecatcher).

[Shugyosha]

Volcanic Fallout also deals two damage to players which isn't good when playing the control role.

Firespout is really good to finish of Goyfsligh creatures while leaving your Trygons alone but I guess in a Goyfsligh heavy meta one wouldn't play this deck anyways.

[undone]

I am playing traditional canadian threshold (4s across the board save 1/1 bounce spells and 2/2/2 fetch lands) What changes can be made to this build possibly against the bounce spells to change this? I was thinking vendillion clique over a bounce spell might be good as it gets in there for 3 and makes sure it lives once it resolves.

[Shugyosha]

I am playing traditional canadian threshold (4s across the board save 1/1 bounce spells and 2/2/2 fetch lands) What changes can be made to this build possibly against the bounce spells to change this? I was thinking vendillion clique over a bounce spell might be good as it gets in there for 3 and makes sure it lives once it resolves.

Me and my teammate were quite successful with Vendilion Clique. It's really awesome as 1-off, as it surprises the opponent and almost always connects more than once. It's just never dead.
But you should run it over F/I because its the worst card in the deck and you usually don't want to see too many of them. Don't get me wrong F/I is still good but 3 copies are enough. Bounce on the other hand swings so many games that I would never cut it. I also rarely board both bounce spells out.

[Henrik]

@post above

Hey, that is a pretty neat decklist! Quite inspiring. Winter orb in the board looks like a sweet tech, but in what specific matchups do you board it in?

No love for pyroclasm, disrupt or submerge?