[Deck] TES - The EPIC Storm

[emidln]

Ad Nauseam makes Grapeshot a viable win condition on its own. That it can deal with hate bears or lessen the necessary storm to win with Tendrils (Burning Wish -> Grapeshot then play Tendrils) are yet more reasons to play it.

[Arsenal]

well , the only situation in which our opponent is at 10 life when we start the combo is... never¡ even we can win with tendrils in this situation with simply less storm..

You're telling me you've never cast a non-lethal Tendrils before? I can remember plenty of times my opponent was able to go broken early, or get a horde out before I could setup anything. In these situations, I used Tendrils for about 8-12 life, just to buy me a few more turns. A non-lethal Tendrils is a bit more common than you make it seem.

[thebadmagicplayer]

ad nauseam can make it a kill card and it's one more thing that you can win with so it isn't a bad option for the side board.
@arsenal : I prefer not to do that but sometimes I do throw one out for 12-14 when I'm out of options.

[Arsenal]

@arsenal : I prefer not to do that but sometimes I do throw one out for 12-14 when I'm out of options.

Oh, I wasn't implying that your goal should be casting a non-lethal Tendrils, but there are times when it's either (a.) losing the game, or (b.) casting a Tendrils for 8-12 life and living for a few more turns. My non-lethal Tendrils response was to Pelikanudo's claim that "the only situation in which our opponent is at 10 life when we start the combo is... never".

[Corwin]

Don't you all think that it's better to cast Empty the Warrens when you don't reach 10 storm count? That's why I still have it mainboard, and not just side.

EDIT: How do you side against merfolk?

[GreenOne]

How do you side against merfolk?

I bring in Blasts and Xantid Swarm. Blast doubles at board control and Swarm is good, since monoblue has zero ways to deal with a resolved xantid.

[Arsenal]

Don't you all think that it's better to cast Empty the Warrens when you don't reach 10 storm count? That's why I still have it mainboard, and not just side.

EDIT: How do you side against merfolk?

In the scenario I presented (mid-game range, opponent has good board position, I just had to cast non-lethal Tendrils to buy a few more turns, etc), I would go for Grapeshot over EtW given the chance. Going all in with EtW, especially in the situation where it's already mid-game, opens you up to WoG/EE/Keg/Deed/etc way too much.

EtW, to me, is a card that I'll use if it's turn 1, and I'm on the play versus an unknown opponent.

[Corwin]

@GreenOne: so do you think that shusher isn't necessary?
@Arsenal: Ok, so you prefer to try to clean the board killing as more as creatures as possible I see, I have to try this way.

[GreenOne]

@GreenOne: so do you think that shusher isn't necessary?

I'm not playing it, so I don't board it
Shusher, however, is a good card against counterbalance, and they're not running it. I probably wouldn't board him.

[Arsenal]

@Arsenal: Ok, so you prefer to try to clean the board killing as more as creatures as possible I see, I have to try this way.

To be honest, I rarely opt to EtW unless I have a neutral board and loads of information about my opponent's current/upcoming hand. Winning through the red zone is unappealing to me due to various token sweepers. Ideally, if I can EtW for 8-12 early (turn 1 or turn 2), I will. If it's later in the game, I don't feel comforable spending so many resources for 1/1 tokens, only to see them swept away when I pass.

EDIT: Although, I'm admittedly new to TES (been playing AnT UBw based stuff), so I may be wrong in my assessment of EtW. Perhaps more experienced TES players would care to chime in about EtW?

[jrp]

The effectiveness of ETW depends on the matchup. Some blue-based decks, like Team America, for example, have no realistic way to beat a resolved empty for more than 8 goblins at really any point in the game, short of already having a Tombstalker on board. Matchups like Team America, where your resources will be strained, are precisely the type of matches where you will sometimes have to go for ETW due to mana/hand size or in situations where you cannot use IGG. Other matchups where your opponent will have tons of dead sweepers game 1 (Landstill:Deed, EE, C//P, Wrath, etc) are the matches where EtW is a risky move that should be used if it is your only possible path to victory. EtW will rarely be relevant in non-blue matches, becuase if you resolved Burning Wish, you're more than likely to be able to loop IGG into the immediate win anyway.

@Shusher - I've never really liked the card. I'd rather just board in 5-6 blasts and hope for the best against Counterbalance decks.

[Arsenal]

That is sorta what I found with EtW; subpar in most matchups and situations, and only "good" in a select few. Although, I suppose it's effectiveness varies depending on game 1 vs. game 2/3, no?

[SuperBean]

I find that Empty the Warrens is very useful against most control match ups... Especially before pre-boarding, it gives you a kill that you don't have to D-Returns, ADN, or go to 10 spell count to kill with. Something that you may have to wait for, versus using whats in your hand to get to 5 or 6 spell count and put your opponent on a 2 turn clock where most control decks especially in the beginning are slow and quite frankly can't deal with 10-12 goblins very easily.

I'm also considering putting 1 Grim Tutor in the deck, so it would be -1 Infernal Tutor +1 Grim Tutor. I've been doing quite a bit of play testing with it on MWS and it's proved to be useful to get you a spell that you don't happen to have in your hand like Infernal Tutor requires.

[GoldenCid]

I saw the last modifications in the Cook's first page list i got surprised:

1- He cut the copies of duress to 2 between main deck and side, i supposed that the utility of this cards was greater to run at least 3x.
2- He included xantid swarm in the SB in addition to the 4x Orim's chant and 2 vexing shusher and decreased de copies of pyroblast...why?
3- Wipe away was added to SB is this due to chalice @1 or MUC/counterbalance match ups?
4- The additonal copy of forbiden orchard is healthy vs glimervoid or undiscovered paradise??

Finally..is this list a "metagame list"? or it is tending to be a "tuned goblal list"??

[Bryant Cook]

I saw the last modifications in the Cook's first page list i got surprised:

1- He cut the copies of duress to 2 between main deck and side, i supposed that the utility of this cards was greater to run at least 3x.
2- He included xantid swarm in the SB in addition to the 4x Orim's chant and 2 vexing shusher and decreased de copies of pyroblast...why?
3- Wipe away was added to SB is this due to chalice @1 or MUC/counterbalance match ups?
4- The additonal copy of forbiden orchard is healthy vs glimervoid or undiscovered paradise??

Finally..is this list a "metagame list"? or it is tending to be a "tuned goblal list"??

You're looking at an old list. My current list looks nothing like that.

[Arsenal]

I find that Empty the Warrens is very useful against most control match ups... Especially before pre-boarding, it gives you a kill that you don't have to D-Returns, ADN, or go to 10 spell count to kill with. Something that you may have to wait for, versus using whats in your hand to get to 5 or 6 spell count and put your opponent on a 2 turn clock where most control decks especially in the beginning are slow and quite frankly can't deal with 10-12 goblins very easily.

I'm also considering putting 1 Grim Tutor in the deck, so it would be -1 Infernal Tutor +1 Grim Tutor. I've been doing quite a bit of play testing with it on MWS and it's proved to be useful to get you a spell that you don't happen to have in your hand like Infernal Tutor requires.

In the scenario you presented, I'm assumming you're talking about EtW on turn 1/turn 2? If it's anytime after that, I don't feel comfortable as three turns is an awful long time to let them dig/draw/tutor into an answer.

[Joe_C]

with merfolk becoming a DTB. How should our board look like?

Presently mine is:

4 Pyroblast
3 Shattering Spree
2 Duress(2 maindeck)
1 Ill- Gotten gains
1 Grapeshot
1 Diminishing returns
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Wipe Away


Has anyone even used wipe away? Everytime I board it in it seems like getting to 1 just isnt happening fast enough. Other options?

[Dark_Cynic87]

On Grim Tutor: I think it's a waste of space, not to mention the obvious dissynergy with Ad Nauseam both in the cmc and in function, losing you 3 life both ways or 6 in the worst case scenario. Also, I think you may have some problems comboing off with it because of it's awkward cmc.

Pce,

--DC

[SuperBean]

Well, that idea of running Grim Tutor would be to get to ADN quicker, or potentially get to ADN. Through testing it seems beneficial, I just need to find one at a reasonable price..

[Dark_Cynic87]

As a one-of though? it would make more sense to me to just run another Ad Nauseam, or with your logic of saying use it to get AdN, more Mystical Tutors. Grim Tutor just isn't good enough.

Pce,

--DC