I am a strong supporter for the UBg running Tree of Tales in order to make use of Krosan Grip in the sideboard. However, I am not sold yet on counting out white for addition of main decked tutor.
I've been supporting UBg here and as well as giving support for it in wizards website. I have read the primer and I understand that it is a card disadvantage and does not get the card right away, instead waiting for it for 1 more turn.
But the card's versatility seems to be just too useful to ignore:
+ The whole deck consist of entirely artifacts, being able to tutor for pretty much almost any card in the deck.
+ Fetches for a card that pretty much swings the game in your favor:
Arcbound Ravager, Myr Enforcer, Thopter (in case of Moat), singleton Hanna's Custody/Karmic Justice, Cranial Plating, early tutoring for Aether Vial when facing control, as well as being able to find our sideboarded cards game 2 and 3. At worse the card can act as a mana fix.
I like UBg for a addition of Grip, removal that does it's business without worry, and a cantrip that gives us 2 cards right here and now. But when I would face decks packing alot of removal, or when trying to recovered after a blown deed... often times I tend to just draw into something irrelevant like lands and acceleration, or little creatures like worker and frogmite. When I wish I could draw into something that would allow for a comeback.
While I support UBg, I guess I just wanted to know, why to stay away from white. As we have plenty of support or compliment coming from it.
Fetches anything in the deck.
Fetches game swinging cards.
At worse acts as a mana fix.
Offers the following choices when running E. Tutors:
Hanna's Custody (singleton) or Karmic Justice (singleton)
games 2-3 able to tutor for either:
Seal of Cleansing
E. canonist
Pithing Needle
Tormod's Crypt / Relic Progenitus
Chalice of the Void
Please don't jump on my throat for this, but the idea has been haunting me for awhile now. Even with play testing, while I notice the white splash over a course of 100 games is a tad slower given the results. It is close enough to warrant comparison between builds. Hence why the idea has been haunting me. I am just playing it safe and went with green since K grip really is powerful to have, but the options made during matches in face of hate when running white is nice also.
I may be running into one of those... "You can take a good deck, and add a few bad cards... and it will still function as its supposed to and not notice the difference." While I may notice that it is a tad bit slower, it gives us options, chance to fight hate, and chance to come back when things does not look great.
Thank you.
@4eak: Great great primer. Seriously good job. These theories are things about affinity I always knew and had somewhat of an understanding of but you found a way to put them into words and you found a way to quantify everything.
I have been thinking of running this deck out in Chicago. I think most players that are not familiar with this format will definetly not see this coming because their little bit of research on the format will draw them towards the "powerful" Goyf or Dreadnaught decks, forgetting about the consistancey of Affinity over about 15 rounds of magic.
With that said, I believe we should start to think about how to best equip the deck to fight a GP level of an event. Its a little bit more difficult to predict such a large metagame but one thing we must keep in mind is the influx of non-legacy players we expect to play against.
When looking at those players we have to think of what will be attractive to those PT and PTQ players that are unfamiliar with legacy.
I believe Goblins will be out in a stronger force than a typical Legacy event. I know here in the Northeast, Goblins is rarely more than a two-of in a 30 man tournament. I also can see lots of non-legacy players looking at the Dreadnaught/Stifle combo as a strong starting point and going from there. Zoo or Goyfsligh decks I can also see people playing because of the popularity of Zoo in Extended, it only gets better in Legacy. One thing for sure is the Legacy decks that are harder to build for non-Legacy players should not be too high on this list. This includes Survival, Enchantress, 43 Land, Imperial Painter, Solidarity. Most PTQ players will most likely not be able to build this decks.
This is of course all speculative, and a conversation starter. I want to play a consistant deck over 15 rds of Magic and the best deck for this I believe could be Affinity so I want to be ready for what could come.
Hi furt and welcome! Don't forget to give credits to GreenOne also as he is a big contributer to the archtype and very knowledgable too.
The problem with trying to equip this for "GP event" is that the deck is already strong as it is. The only one we can pretty much toy around is the sideboard, which is kinda hard to gear when going in blind. But 4reak's and GreenOne's suggestion for a nice set up of along the lines of:
3-4 Krosan Grip
3-4 Chalice of the Void
4 Pithing Needle
3-4 Meta Card, or for matches that you think you'll come across.
The deck is very consistent indeed, the only worry is when hate starts coming in for the deck. But then again it's not something to be discouraged about anyways.
Always looking for more people to play in the Chicago area. Anyone interested send me a PM.
Of course a ton of congrats I'll send GreenOne's way.
I understand that there is little we can change and I definetly do not want to change the maindeck as I see it being the most optimal at this moment. I am just trying to think about those 3-4 meta slots. They are huge. As stated in the primer, a one to two card difference in this deck could be the difference between the most synergestic deck in history and a pile of clunk.
To determine what these slots should be we should discuss what an expected metagame could be and then think about what we need or don't need for the expected matchups.
This isn't as simple as any other Legacy event. This is going to be a large event with lots of diversity. We will see a large influx of non-Legacy accustom players at this event and we need to take this into account.
I like to look at like this.
GP: Chicago is not a Legacy event, rather a high level event that happens to be Legacy format.
I don't know if Affinity will be the right choice for GP: Chicago for some reasons:
- There will be combo decks
- People will be coming from other formats, not being legacy-only players. Probably some of them will be pros and some standard/extended players with good knowledge of how affinity works and how to play against it. You can take advantage of Vial/Disciple as cards not present in extended though.
But there will be the great advantage of just little hate. You will find EE and Deed, but that's it IMO.
That said for the meta slots I'd go with something you won't regret to play and is sided against a good number of decks even if its effect is not devastating. There's no reason to play something strong against a single archetype (like Plague for goblins) in a 1000 round event.
So, here is how I'd build the SB:
4 Krosan Grip
4 Needle
3/4 Chalice
4/3 of one of those in order:
1/2 Relic + 2/1 Tormod: You get the surprise factor and the needle reliability. See below for description of the cards.
Relic of Progenitus: some form of graveyard hate. Great against Loam, EE recursion, The Rock's witness/therapy/volrath's, Goyf.dec, Tombstalker.dec, Mongoose. It's slower than crypt but better if the games goes over turn 5-6. Also better as topdeck.
Tormod's Crypt: helps with the affinity factor, so actually accelerates your clock instead of slowing it in some cases. It's faster and doesn't require mana open, but it's one shot and helps less against Goyf and Tombstalker. It's a lot better against Ichorid.
Thorn of Amethyst: Helps against combo, but we're a bye anyway for them, it's good against control and a bit against aggrocontrol. Also very good against Burn. Making them run in manascrew, making Moat/Humility/Wrath a turn later if they have the fifth land, etc is really huge against control. It's also unfairly one sided.
Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.DeckOriginally Posted by Tacosnape, TrialByFire, Silverdragon mix
Current Record: 1-83-2
It is true that combo will be played at the GP but there are two things to keep in mind.
1. The amount of combo. I have always seen Legacy as a format where combo is vastly vastly underplayed. The combo decks are strong and consistent and I believe Legacy should have more combo in it. This may contradict my point but because it is underplayed, when these non-Legacy players research the format, they will not see any combo dominance and I theorize this will cause them to play the aggro-control decks.
2. The other thing to keep in mind is how big this tournament is. In a GP you can make top 8 with an X-3 record sometimes. I know its not a way to plan a tournament but with the low representaion of combo decks in the format, I'm willing to run the gambit and predict I won't face it more than three times in the tournament.
Running Affinity at a large even is like glass cannon theory. A powerful deck that can be fragile if hate is played or it gets its dreaded pairings. Most recently it had a good showing at GP LA in Extended. Affinity has its unwinnable matchups in Extended, just as in Legacy, specifically TEPS. Two different people were able to navigate through the swiss rounds to end up in the top 8 as well as one to the finals. Pretty good showing for a deck that has defined unwinnable matchups and has a problem with any well preparded deck.
I want to run it at the GP because I feel very few people will actually be well prepared for it. Running Grip in your board does not mean you have a good plan against Affinty. As we read in the primer, the one for one removal never beats you. Yes we fear Deed and to a smaller extent EE, I see not too many rounds of playing against that for the same reason.
This is what makes the deck a decent choice for the GP if you like taking risks.
My latest idea for a sideboard is:
4 Chalice
3 Grip
4 Needle
2 Crypt
2 Relic
The 4th Grip just seems to clog up th draws too much in the post board game. Usually only need to see one to win the game.
With Conflux, Affinity has gotten a strong new contender: Esperzoa. So now, without any ado, here is the list I propose for its inclusion:
I'm unsure as to whether I should add in a third Esperzoa.// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)
// Lands
4 [8E] City of Brass
4 [MR] Vault of Whispers
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
1 [MR] Tree of Tales
4 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
// Creatures
1 [AQ] Ornithopter
4 [DS] Arcbound Worker
4 [MR] Disciple of the Vault
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
4 [ALA] Etherium Sculptor
4 [ALA] Master of Etherium
2 [CFX] Esperzoa
2 [MR] Frogmite
4 [MR] Myr Enforcer
// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
2 [LRW] Springleaf Drum
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 4 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 4 [TSP] Krosan Grip
You don't really want to see it in multiples, but on the other hand, it may just save you an artifact or two from Deed.
I go by the name of Zasz on Magic Workstation.
Somber Hoverguard, eh? And Qumulox. Seriously? That's plain mind-boggling. Did you even look at my list before replying?
I'm running playsets of Etherium Scultpor and Aether Vial, none of which have synergy with either Hoverguard or Qumulox.
Also, reliably getting UU before turn 5 is impossible. Albeit it comes online a tad later, Esperzoa is Affinity's Sea Drake.
I go by the name of Zasz on Magic Workstation.
@ Nazgath
I suggest reading the primer.With Conflux, Affinity has gotten a strong new contender: Esperzoa. So now, without any ado, here is the list I propose for its inclusion:
Your cost curve is much too high for your low land count, and you've actually slowed the deck down by removing Frogmite and Ornithopter to play an expensive and not amazing creature in an aggro-combo deck.
Esperzoa is really only very useful when bouncing artifacts is a synergistic play: see Tanglewire. It belongs in the aggro-control variants of the deck that seek play like Faerie Stompy. It is a stompy card, not an aggro-combo card.
There are much, much better options.
peace,
4eak
Etherium Sculptor is really really bad. His Acceleration comes into play when you don't even need it, ornithopter pretty much does the same thing in this deck and its free.
Say you have the hand : Ornithopter, worker, plating, springleaf drum, frogmite, seat, enforcer. Play seat, ornithopter, drum, worker, frogmite. next turn draw land, play plating, drop enforcer, equip orni, swing for 11 points of damage.
Same with sculptor instead of thropter and esperzoa over frogmite: Play seat, tap and play drum. go. next turn, play land, tap and play sculptor, play worker. swing for 0. go. Loose to ad nauseum for 19 life worth of cards.
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Please. I suggest reading the thread. You will see that I have done that already.
That makes sense. However, I thought combo was pretty much an auto-loss anyway?
I guess my question is, why is this deck aiming for a consistent turn 4 goldfish (occasionally turn 3) win, when the matchup closest to said goldfish is anyway combo? Why not take a more resilent and powerful, albeit slower route to a turn 5 win?
Edit: I'm not trying to advocate my list right now. I want to clear my ignorance to understand why you guys prefer a more explosive list.
I go by the name of Zasz on Magic Workstation.
Not really *autoloss*.. , against ad nauseum just try to do as much damage as quickly as possible before they can go off. Leave them with as little room for luck as possible. Games two and three are better since we have sideboard tools. If we slow our deck down even more we start loosing to other worse decks like burn and tier 2 combo. Sculptor has no evasion, is a bad topdeck, has low power and needs colored mana to play.
@ Nazgath
I'm not trying to be flippant with you.
Aye. I've responded to you a few times. You've yet to effectively address what I've said in the primer or in my posts. By 'read the primer', I'm also saying: if you disagree, then give better reasoning than you've provided so far.Please. I suggest reading the thread. You will see that I have done that already.
I don't mind lists with Esperzoa and Sculptor if you can properly defend why you made the deck the way you did. You didn't do this.
peace,
4eak
I was wondering if I may have some advise for my meta.
I've been running into many decks abusing graveyards or have some sort of cards that requires the use of graveyards. Ranging from competitive types to random decks, majority of which uses the graveyard. I think, for where I play, it's safe to say that it's okay to main deck graveyard hate. Since I am pretty confident that I'll bump into those decks at a very high rate.
The problem I am having is, what should I take out for main decking the graveyard hate? I am considering relic over tormod's at this point due to decks that also benefits from my graveyard as well.
Here are the cards I am running into alot this whole month...
- Life From the Loam
- Crucible of Worlds
- Tarmogoyf
- Terravore
- Bridge from Below
- Nimble Mongoose
- Werebear
- Some deck that abuses Cephalid Illusionist
As well as some random black deck packing massive creature destruction like chainer's, diabolics, damnation and innocent bloods, backed by heavy discard, and steals my frogmites and enforcers via Dance of the Dead and Reanimate, while having only Tombstalkers as the only creature.
So with so many decks I am running into, which cards can be taken out in place of main decked relics? I mean really... if I play someone they're most likely using their graveyard or mine.
According to 4reak's list, ornithopter being in the bottom of the list, based on card importance, is that the card that can be taken out? My current list is as follows...
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Tree of Tales
2 City of Brass
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Fromite
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Ornithopter
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Master of Etherium
3 Aether Vial
3 Springleaf Drum
4 Thoughcast
4 Cranial Plating
What could be taken out to have some main decked graveyard hate?
Thank you!
Always looking for more people to play in the Chicago area. Anyone interested send me a PM.
You can go straight with +4 Relic -4 Workers, but I'd probably go with +3/4 relics, -2/3 workers, -1 Enforcer, -0/1 Orni.
Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.DeckOriginally Posted by Tacosnape, TrialByFire, Silverdragon mix
Current Record: 1-83-2
Always looking for more people to play in the Chicago area. Anyone interested send me a PM.
I'd probably go with -4 Workers. It just feels more clean. Plus, workers haven't been doing much for me recently.
feefox: each card in hand!!!!
ridicolous
only fortune
Everytime I tried to replace Workers with something else, I missed them. They look weak on paper, but are really integral to how the deck plays out.
The Source: Your Source for "The Source: Your Source for..." cliche.
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