So, guys...
To all those of you that gonny try their luck at GP:
GL, HF!
Last edited by Aleksandr; 09-27-2009 at 03:50 PM.
Was this even a real Skeggi's hero?Originally Posted by Skeggi
Lol. You're my hero.
Indeed, good luck stompers all. I have a feeling you'll be needing progenitus answers in the first few rounds looking at the trial decks.
Yup, unless they get a god start, it's not the end of the world. Suspect legendary squid in the 'bord might be overkill
Unless there's a huge weight of numbers, the number of NO thresh decks in the winning brackets will peter out through the day (I was a bit vague in that first post)
Think the fact that there was a Premium SSG article from a certain gent might up the numbers, but many of those players are going to have to read the cards an awful lot - There's little more promising in a large legacy tourney than "What does that do?"
I'm still of the school, the best plan against Progenitus is to kill its controller. It doesn't have flying and present Progenitus-lists put it out turn 4 the earliest; plenty of time to draw a Force or some such. And if you do manage to Force it, it's such a gigantic beating as they lost 4 mana & their creature.
Won a GP Trial. COME ON !!!!!
He made day two at 7-2, 69th in standings. Time will tell how it holds together for him; those MD Trinispheres are going to cost him matches, but the deck is strong enough to afford that.
I actually always wondered why you don't play trinisphere. I mean, Force is a great boon, but Trinisphere can randomly lock out so many decks, and it doesn't hurt your curve at all (save Force of Will).
Is Force the only reason that you don't play it? 'Cause I'd think it'd help your storm combo match tremendously, in addition to just screwing over any brand of Thresh ever.
The E.P.I.C. Syndicate: I mean, if they play a lullaby for babies they should at least play the Monster Mash when somebody dies.
Eldariel -> I forgot the fact that tone can't get through the interwebs. I meant: " COME ON !!! THIS GUY IS F**KING AWESOME"
Edit: If it needs to be mentionned, I'll be playing his list for the next 2 months over every tourney. Maybe even @ BoM3. This list is so much improvement for the deck !!
For every time it provides me with a blowout, it's either inconsequential or actively weakens me as I spent a turn playing it instead of doing something useful. The deck usually plays a spell a turn and if opponent is at 3 mana, they can match me with a spell a turn and I'll just run out of cards first as I spent an early turn playing Trini.
Sure, it can be brutal against some decks, but it's just really unreliable. I don't exactly believe Faerie Stompy needs help against combo/any archetype very vulnerable to Chalice (for obvious reasons) and against the rest of the format, Trini is majorly unimpressive as well. Chalice is going to keep the StPs away for good, Trini just until they hit their third landdrop. If the deck packed Wastelands or some form of mana denial to actually lock people out, I'd consider Trini, but as things stand, I find it bad enough that I wouldn't play it even if the deck didn't have FoW.
I understood as much. Just posted an update on his progress.
Just got back from GP, and went 5-3. I had bit of bad luck here and there, but the deck was generally awesome, and I was happy to be playing it. BWg Rock is not a good matchup, though. Is there way to improve this?
Report will follow when I can get the time.
She said, "You're broken."
"So is your face." replied the Tarmogoyf.
Not without hurting other match-ups. In fact, the present build has already gone through motions to greatly improve this MU with Sower of Temptation, Sword of Light and Shadow & Back to Basics. All those were done with BGWx decks (Landstill, Rock, Rec Sur, etc.) in mind.
Will be looking forward to reading all the FS reports. Only one made it Day 2, but it's not all that bad. Too bad he finished one round short of money.
Mini Report - I may do a full one in the Reports section if I feel like it.
Since this is mini report, I'll not bother searching for my opponent's names and such. I'm still really tired from the trip, so forgive me, my ooponents in the tourney were all great.
Initially, I had Survival elves with progenitus as my plan A, but looking at the grinders made me have a second thought. I also was itching to play FS somewhere, as I just obtained my drakes about 3 weeks ago. So I switch decks last minute, crossing my finger.
My build was similar to Eldariel's, except I cut Rangers for Seat of Synod. As for SB, I had trouble getting SB cards, so It looked like:
3 B2B
1 Needle
1 Cursed Scroll
2 Jitte
2 Crypt
1 Relic
4 Hydroblast
1 EE
It was fine, I missed Archmages in some matchups, but it was ok.
Round 1: vs. Threshold/w
Game 1: I look at hand of Chalice, Bunch of blue cards, and city on play, wondering if this could fly. I wonder what other FS players would have done, but I call mulligan after a pondering. That marks the start of mulling to 4, Which I was forced to keep. The game is over soon.
Game 2: Chalice at 1, which resolved after a FoW war, locked him out of the game. Flyers got there shortly thereafter.
Game 3: I think I mulled once or so, but my memory fails me. Chalice meets daze, Efreet meets swords, and Sower meets FoW. I ran out of gas, and he gets CB with 3 on top. That was the game.
1-2
Round 2: vs. Elf combo / Glimpse
Game 1: I keep that hand of City, Island, Chalice, Force, and some guys. My opponent leads with centinel, wich I let in play, then he sprit guides in another one, which I force. He Guides a Blanchlore Ranger, I'm bit baffled about how rediculous this is. I get my turn, and I get chalice down at 1. He could not deat with it in time, while I find more lands and SoFaI.
Game 2: Chalice got there. Nothing of note.
2-0
Round 3: vs. Wg(?) Stax
Game 1: He's mana screwed, and he stack does not do anything to help it.
Game 2: He opens up with chalice at 1, which made me think he did not what my deck did. I open up with a efreet, then he plays Powder Keg. I hold bak guys and keep gettting there for 3. He saves the keg for some reason and mulldrifter joins the party. He Blows the keg at low life, and the tried to wrath to stay alive, but Force got there.
2-0
Round 4 vs. Dredge
Game 1: It was lopsided, but had I won the die roll, It would have been the other way. Chalice was a turn too late.
Game 2: I bring in Hate, and happy to see Crypt in my opening grip. I drop it and play Mage turn 2, wich gets me Relic. He scoops after Chalice hits for 1.
Game 3: Apperently he kept triple needle hand, but point is moot when Chalice hits for 1 with relic on board.
2-1
Round 5 vs. Bgw Rock w/ Glittering Wish
Game 1: I win the Role, and land a Guy. He swords it. Repeat three times. I land Muldrifter, and he Vidicates it. Repeat three times. I finally get to stick a guy with SoFaI, and he wishes for Deed. Trinket Mage Saves the day.
Game 2: I Chalice, then get to have a Drake with SoFaI Turn 3. That kills Shusher he wished for, then get there for few times. He wishes for deed, but I land chalice at 3. He picks his card up.
2-0
Round 6: vs. Gamekeeper Salvager.
Game 1: He opens with therapy on force, and wiffs. He sees chalice and drops LED. At that point, I realize what he plays, but was afraid of more discard, so I go with Chalice at 1. I topdeck a Mage, wich gets chalice at 0, then my guys started to beat face. The game was over shortly.
Game 2: Similar, but less disruption on my side. I go all in and drop 4 guys, and he goes EE. Thankfully, I have FoW and it gets there.
2-0
Round 7: vs. Faeries? Had some fae and vials.
Game 1: He opens up with vial, and I force it. He lands Standstill, wich I break. He Land another one, and it became rather unfair after that.
Game 2: I started with Chalice and Drake, but the drake takes a while to resolve. When he said go, I drew out of habit, and that is the game.
0-2
Round 8: vs. Rock
Both games, I get my hand stripped and guys killed. I felt there was nothing I can do to win it.
0-2
5-3 overall.
I liked the deck in general, the deck was more consistent than I initially thought. I felt my SB needed work, as well as my playing, but had no issues with maindeck. I will stick to the deck for a while, as I wanted to play deck since forever...
She said, "You're broken."
"So is your face." replied the Tarmogoyf.
I went 4-3 at the GP with Faerie Stompy. My wins were a first round bye, Dutch Stax, Merfolk, and Ichorid. I lost to Gb Rock (I think it was an Extended port -- jank and board control in one, woohoo!), A very good and very lucky Dreadstill player, and Uw Landstill. If anyone wants more detail about any of the matches, I'll post some blurbs.
I cut the Shoreline Ranger for a Snow-Covered Island and removed one Mulldrifter, one Needle, and one Glen Elendra Archmage for three Propagandas after seeing tons of Goblins, Ichorid, and Merfolk on Friday.
Running the extra Island saved me two mulligans. My GP would have been a disaster if I ran Shoreline Ranger. I know he only turns 1.5% or so of your openers into mulligans, but I think I'm going to cut him while I gather more information about his usefulness. There were three games where I was glad the slot was an Island, one where I wished I had the Ranger, and two where it didn't matter.
In addition to what Eldariel and sasa_batora have already said, the reason I don't run Trinisphere is that it's nearly useless against every deck in the format except Thresh and combo unless you drop it turn one on the play.
It's not a bad card for the deck, but we don't need the help versus combo. Also it doesn't pitch/imprint. I ran it for a while and it was decent, but ultimately I replaced it with better cards.
Three words: Glen Elendra Archmage. I have never lost to storm when I untapped with one of these. Unlike ITEOC, it's also amazing versus board control.
We're already storm combo's worst nightmare before we sideboard. Running cards solely for that matchup is unnecessary.
Of all the stupid things I've seen people try to do in Chalice Aggro decks, this is one of the stupidest. FoW is amazing against the entire format, Trinisphere is only good versus certain decks at certain times. You could run both in the maindeck and avoid the bad synergy most of the time, but there's no excuse for having Force in the board. Name me one deck in Legacy that wants their opponent to run Force of Will.
Versus an unknown opponent I would definitely mull that hand. In fact, I'd only keep it if I was on the play versus storm combo.
Last edited by Kuma; 03-09-2009 at 06:38 PM.
"Casual sex, NO Touching/Licking/Sucking/Groping/Fondling/Riding/Tickling/Binding/Quitters/Italians. Play Fast, Be Polite, Have Fun."
Sure as hell sounds like fun.
Please tell me you didn't realize that list has Force of Will in the sideboard so I don't have to make you the sole member of my ignore list.
If you made that statement fully aware of the ridiculous card choices, I'd like to hear how +3 Trinisphere, +1 Mox Diamond, -4 Force of Will is "so much improvement"
And no, "It won a GP trial" is not an argument, it's a small sample size fallacy.
"Casual sex, NO Touching/Licking/Sucking/Groping/Fondling/Riding/Tickling/Binding/Quitters/Italians. Play Fast, Be Polite, Have Fun."
Sure as hell sounds like fun.
I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss that change. It seems that that same GP trail winning deck managed to finish in the top 5% of decks of the 1300 and made day two of the GP.
I also find it really interesting that the only Fairie Stompy list that made day 2 was that list, the one that subbed out Force of Wills with Trinispheres!!
It couldn't have been for budget reasons. If you can afford Sea Drakes, you sure as hell can afford FoWs. Maybe that was the correct call.
I often find myself having to trade away my one and only threat for Force of Will. And many times, trading two blue cards for your opponent's spells isn't a good trade in Fairie Stompy. But what else could you do. If you don't use the FoW, you essentially have a dead card. And the games where a FoW actually comes in handy are against combo, in which Trinisphere comes in very handy as well, and you already maindeck Chalice already.
So Trini instead of FoW. I think it might make the deck more consistent. Just something to think about.
No. There was a moment where I ran the deck with Trini instead of Force. It's rubbish. You. Want. Force.
About the budget reason, sometimes you can find/borrow one card, but not another. As was the case for me. I can only say, Trini is SB at best.
Ichorid, Suiblack, Merfolk, Sligh/Zoo, Burn, etc, namely all decks owning various threats that would like to see you trading 2 for 1.
Trinisphere is far far better thanArtifact Each Player cannot play spells unless he or she could add
Yeah, Trini is more than a lock component. It's a tempo piece.
Everything you play costs 3 mana already. This decks opens really strong. But if that early open is answered, your opponent many games overwhelms you simply by playing more spells (removal and threats) while you're stuck playing just one card at a time.
It means that you lose many games simply because you are stuck playing one card per turn while your opponent can lay down more than one card per turn.
You go to all sorts off trobule to resolve a threat. Then your opponent StP's the threat you and plays a Goyf the same turn. You lose a lot of tempo.
Or perhaps they play a Thoughtseize followed by a Smallpox or Sinkhole or Hymn. With a FoW, you're basically trading two business spells to stop the Hymn, if you opt to do so. Either way, you basically lose.
But with Trini, you force your opponent to play as slowly as you do, one spell at a time. It just so happens that your spells are usually more powerful. And you win the game for that reason.
Trinisphere is a one sided Sphere of Resistence x2. If it wasn't a big tempo boost, then it wouldn't have been restricted in Vintage. It's also a great card versus combo.
P.S: I'm not saying that cutting Force for Trini is the right call. All I'm saying is that Trini is a powerful effect, and given the deck fetauring both won the GP trial and then went on to make day two, it might be worth looking into.
Believe it or not, Force of Will is an effective card against Ichorid. If you counter their discard outlet, you slow them down immensely. Suiblack hates having their kill conditions countered. Merfolk hates having their Aether Vials and lords countered. Sligh/Zoo hates having their goyfs and removal countered. Even burn hates having their Browbeats and Ensnaring Bridges countered, and I've won games because I Forced lethal burn spells.
Every deck hates having its spells Forced. Granted it's better against some decks than others, but it's never a bad strategy.
From your list, Trinisphere is only good against Ichorid and Burn.
I have no idea what you're talking about.Trinisphere is far far better than
"Casual sex, NO Touching/Licking/Sucking/Groping/Fondling/Riding/Tickling/Binding/Quitters/Italians. Play Fast, Be Polite, Have Fun."
Sure as hell sounds like fun.
I agree that 100% Magic players hate their spells to be countered and countering a spell is always effective. However, the statement alters if you have to remove a Mage/Efreet/Drake/Drifter/Pestermite/Sower from the game.
To make some concret arguments, I will explain how Trinisphere>Force of Will versus Suiblack, Merfolk, Sligh/Zoo supposing a Trinisphere landed on Turn 3 or a Force of Will in hand after Turn 3.
Suiblack: a Thoughtseize accompanied by a Nantuko Shade makes a FOW awkward while they have to play them in separate turns under 3Sphere.
Merfolk: Under 3Sphere, if they would like to play a threat, they have to give up countering your spell or cantriping. Leaving your threats unattended or stopping their playing threats are better than countering their threats. If they had a Vial, both cards become much worse.
Sligh/Zoo: If you counter a Lightning Bolt on Sea Drake, you save them a Lightning Bolt on Trinket Mage and open your Drake to a Lightning Helix. If you counter a Tarmogoyf, you save them a Lightning Bolt on Trinket Mage and they land a Figure of Destiny. Why not just tell them play 1 spell per turn?
P.S: I'm not saying that cutting FOW for Trinisphere is the right call either. All I'm saying is that there is a reason for Stompy players playing maindeck Trinispheres and (one of them) Top8ing GP.
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