[DTB] Vial Goblins

[Viscosity]

I agree that MD Relics is great in the current meta. And they open up your sideboard for combo hate beautifully.

A friend of mine won one of the GP trials with Mono-Red gobs. 3 MD relics.

The more I think on it, I like the idea of Chalice plus Thorn for the combo MU. First turn chalice at 0 buys you some time by slowing their acceleration. And the great thing about thorn is that it increases the cost of their bounce spells. Probably buying you a turn or two. Multiple thorns are even better. Usually when you cast multiple hate, they can get echoed back to your hand. But multiple thorns make echoing truth that much harder to play.

i haven't tested thorn yet though, I'm just speculating.

[Media314r8]

The more I think on it, I like the idea of Chalice plus Thorn for the combo MU.

I played with 4 chalices, 3 thorns in my RB SB for about half a year and found the thorns lacking, as you really need to have a chalice (or have your opponent have a shitty draw, in which case a fast hand might be better against them anyhow) AND a thorn for thorn to be effective. Multiple thorns likely seal the deal, but slow you down a lot as well, taking up your second and third turns. With ANT running only 1-3 wincons MD and rarely running burning wish, I have switched to just running 3 earwig squads MD, who auto win against combo if prowled, and can also help as anti-hate against E plagues, jitte, ect. I think the better option is to run squads main and 4 chalices side, leaving 11 open slots, or just go the glass cannon route and run 0 slots Main/side of combo hate and hope for a nuts lackey->SGC + driver turn 2 for a turn three kill.

[zabuza]

Could Kill-Suit Cultist be a solution to tarmogoyf??
It´s only playable in RB goblins but i think is a good chance to kill Tarmos and if you have a warchief is very nice.
What do you think about it?

[Avatara]

Kill-Suit Cultist is horrible card disadvantage if you ask me. No one will ever block it and this means that you will loose two cards (Kill-Suit Cultist and the creature that is dealing combat damage). The fact that it's a conditional card is also horrible. If you want something that takes care of Goyf or other creatures... why not run something that does so immediately!? (removal like Stingscourger, Gempalm Incinerator, Warren Weirding or Swords to Plowshares)

[Ectoplasm]

What's wrong with relics to shrink tarmogoyf? They do a great job keeping multiple decks at bay, besides their obvious role as graveyardhosers. Relics rule!

[GreenOne]

Too bad there was no Goblin in Top8. As the 2nd more represented deck and with such a good metagame, it had to top8. Why do you guys think it didn't?

[Eldariel]

My theory is getting repeatedly paired vs. all the ANT and Engineered Plague in there (see all those black decks).

[ScatmanX]

So, us not getting top 8 is due to getting lots of bad matchups?
I really thought at least 1 would get there...

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

Too bad there was no Goblin in Top8. As the 2nd more represented deck and with such a good metagame, it had to top8. Why do you guys think it didn't?

Same reason Merfolk didn't Top 8, dude: 4X Engineered Plague in everyone's fucking sideboard who could run it.

[ScatmanX]

The weird thing is that Gobbos and Merfolks were 2 of the 3 decks that most showed day 2, if I remember right...

[FoulQ]

Hello everyone. I'm currently fiddling around a lot with monored goblins: MD 3 relic, 3 stingscourger, goblin goons out of the sb for engineered plague like greenone said a few pages back. It has been working well for me.

However, I like Media314r8's idea of 3 MD Earwig Squad and 4 Chalice SB. This would also allow me to play warren weirdings of course, but the problem with 3 MD Earwigs is it would probably mean cutting my 3 mogg fanatic, and I like him for the general aggro matchup.

Now, everyone always says "use the splash appropriate for your meta." And I was just wondering if I should go glass cannon approach vs. combo (monored), seeing as 10% of my meta is probably storm combo. But 3 MD relics (monored) are really helpful since up to 20% (!) of my meta is ichorid, as well as a lot of random tarmogoyf decks (thresh, loam, rock), and I would have a hard time fitting the relics maindeck in a black splash list. I'm currently running monored but it is pretty much an autoloss to 10% of the field, especially at the higher tables where it seems a lot of the combo players end up. So what do you guys think, should I run monored or rb (or even rg / rbg)?

[wolfstorm]

So, us not getting top 8 is due to getting lots of bad matchups?
I really thought at least 1 would get there...

I won one of the trial's with a mono red list but definitely got raped by bad luck against Ichorid, Dreadstill (double nought game 1 nought double force and a stifle for my stingscourger game 2) and then AN killing me turn 2 game 1 and turn 1 game 2.

Anyways, Relic and stingscourger is truly amazing, relic omost single handedly deals with goyf/tombstalker while also screwing with decks that depend on there graveyard, I found stingscourger to basically at the worst be a time walk against decks and was wonderful when it came to screwing with combat math for your opponent.

[Avatara]

I won one of the trial's with a mono red list but definitely got raped by bad luck against Ichorid, Dreadstill (double nought game 1 nought double force and a stifle for my stingscourger game 2) and then AN killing me turn 2 game 1 and turn 1 game 2.

Anyways, Relic and stingscourger is truly amazing, relic omost single handedly deals with goyf/tombstalker while also screwing with decks that depend on there graveyard, I found stingscourger to basically at the worst be a time walk against decks and was wonderful when it came to screwing with combat math for your opponent.

I guess you are Erik Mynatt?

I have some questions about your decklist...

1. Did you ever win 'coz of Goblin Sharpshooter?
2. Why are you running a singleton Gempalm Incinerator?
3. Did you have an advantage by playing no fetch lands?

[wolfstorm]

I guess you are Erik Mynatt?

I have some questions about your decklist...

1. Did you ever win 'coz of Goblin Sharpshooter?
2. Why are you running a singleton Gempalm Incinerator?
3. Did you have an advantage by playing no fetch lands?

Yep.

And yes, Goblin Sharpshooter allowed me to force through damage a couple of times specially in a match against team america after he had 2 goyfs in play and a Trygon Predator, I normally run him because IMO hes fantastic against Merfolk, Elves and the Mirror, hes also nice with Stingscourger.

The Gempalm was mainly there as a matron target to deal with things that I didn't want to see coming back hes also silly in the mirror and you can use him to kill your own creatures against ichorid. And the reason for no fetch lands was because I didn't want to risk having my mana base being stifled when I was already running such a low land count, plus having a hand were your only land drops are fetch's though rarely happens can suck against Team America Dreadstill and Threshold, IMO theres really no reason to risk playing them in Mono Red.

[Avatara]

Sunday I'm playing at a local legacy tournament (+/- 40 people)

I was planning to run mono red but I am unable to acquire the Stingscourgers on time. Because of that I'm going to run the build that I'm most familiar with: Rb (although with a twist).

4 Badlands
4 Auntie's Hovel
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
3 Mountain

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledrivers
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
3 Mogg Fanatic
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie
1 Mad Auntie
1 Goblin Tinkerer
1 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Goblin Sharpshooter

4 Aether Vial
3 Warren Weirding

Sideboard:
4 Pyrokinesis
4 Challice of the Void
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Goblin Tinkerer

I know there will be a lot of decks with blue in it (Countertop, Threshold, TA, Eva Green, Merfolk). Because of that I choose to run less fetch lands and replace them with Auntie's Hovels. I don't expect there to be a lot of combo (I know for 100% that there will be one combo elf player). The rest will be random decks.

I'm not certain about the utility slots (4 because I drop one Mogg Fanatic):

1 Wort, Boggart Auntie
1 Mad Auntie
1 Goblin Tinkerer
1 Goblin Sharpshooter

There's a Mad Auntie in there because with all the TA and Eva Green I expect there to be a few Engineered Plagues. However goblins is not a common sight in the meta game.

Al tough I still have doubts about the utility slots... should I keep them as they are or should I replace them with 3 maindeck Relic of Progenitus? (I have no experience with this) Would it be viable to drop to 22 lands with only 4 fetchlands) and have 2 utility slots (Goblin Tinkerer & Mad Auntie or Goblin Sharpshooter) and 3 Relic of Progenitus?

Any other feedback/advice is also welcome!

[Seriously]

So, us not getting top 8 is due to getting lots of bad matchups?
I really thought at least 1 would get there...

what, goblin decks or active members of the source ?

[wolfstorm]

what, goblin decks or active members of the source ?

I think he was talking about goblin decks in general, but for me it was Deff b/c of 2 bad matchups and then someone with a little to much luck on his side playing Dreadstill.

[ScatmanX]

@ Avatara:
I wouldn't recomend relic main in the Rb version, once you have Weirdings to get rid of goyfs, Stalkers, etc... And I've never been a fan of goblin toolbox...

@ Seriously:
I thought a goblin deck would top8 the GP...



Question:
you're playing agains't Dredge. It's game 2 or 3, and you start. You open a hand of 2 mountains, 1 Relic, 1 Fanatic, 1 Pithing Needle, 1 CotV, 1 Duress.
What do you do for the first and second turns?
Can't figure the best play... =/

Edit: And if you dont have Fanatics? You would try to discard a breaktrough, LED or something with duress, or Pithin Needle on Putrid Imp 1st turn?

[wolfstorm]

Question:
you're playing agains't Dredge. It's game 2 or 3, and you start. You open a hand of 2 mountains, 1 Relic, 1 Fanatic, 1 Pithing Needle, 1 CotV, 1 Duress.
What do you do for the first and second turns?
Can't figure the best play... =/

I would do first turn Fanatic, that will most likely stop them from killing you turn 1 and will also draw out there pithing needle if they have it, after that you can play down Relic on turn 2 with the mana to pop it if needed. My friend actually tried turn 1 relic at the PTQ and got owned on turn 1 because of it. Personally I wouldn't bring in CotV against dredge just seems to slow concidering 0 only hits LED if there running it and laying it down for 1 seems a little slow.

[Avatara]

@ Avatara:
I wouldn't recomend relic main in the Rb version, once you have Weirdings to get rid of goyfs, Stalkers, etc... And I've never been a fan of goblin toolbox...

The Relic of Progenitus main deck wouldn't only be against Goyfs and Stalkers. There are many more decks that utilize the graveyard. Against decks like Goyf Sligh and Aggro Loam it's kinda hard to hit the Goyf with Weirding. Against the latter I think it's essential to run both.

Versus elves and merfolk Relic isn't really useful... but elves beats you 80%+ of the time pre-board anyways and Merfolk has a bad match-up against you as it is.

It also forces opponents to choose between destroying your Vial or Relic.

I wasn't a fan of Relic main deck but I've been starting to like it more and more over the last hour or two. I like how it increases the mana curve and dodges daze on turn two.

On the toolbox part I agree!

This is the deck I'm going to run against a gauntlet of test decks tomorrow:

22 Lands
4 Badlands
3 Auntie's Hovel
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
2 Mountain
1 Barbarian Ring (Trent Jones - GP Chicago 2009 Day 1 Undefeated Deck)

28 Creatures
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledrivers
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
3 Mogg Fanatic
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Goblin Tinkerer
1 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Goblin Sharpshooter

10 Other
4 Aether Vial
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Warren Weirding

Sideboard:
4 Pyrokinesis
4 Challice of the Void
3/4 Cabal Therapy (0/1 Mogg Fanatic or something else)
2 Goblin Tinkerer
1 Relic of Progenitus

The deck is still subject to change. (I will also be testing the version without Relic main deck)