[Deck] It's the Fear - Control in the new Era

[bowvamp]

First of sorry if i make wrong assumptions, i am not that familiar with the deck.

My question is, why do people like EE more / as much as Deed in the Merfolk matchup?
A Deed for 3 kills everything they have, with EE you can consider yourself lucky if you hit 2 of their guys.
Lord ofAtlantis is a big problem, which is one of the reasons i would follow Muradin's suggestion and play 3 Spell Snare main with two Vedalken Shackles in the board.
They are quite good against them in my opinion. Additionally i suggest 2 Tombstalker as additional meat to block their swarm.
They do work nicely with Deed and give you more time to setup Counterbalance.
I may appear that they dont work well with your recursion theme, but in practice i dont think its a problem (just remove the 'uninteresting' spells).
A drawback is that they make their Relics more potent, but for these Grip could be used (helps also against Vial and B2B).

Thoughts?

Well, I think that the key difference is that it is easier to recur EE. That and it comes out earlier sometimes. And as far as tombstalker goes, it seems like you're just walking straight into a relic. I would run Nihilith over tombstalker against merfolk any day. If they ever get to the point where a merman is big enough to kill it, you've lost anyways!

[Muradin]

So if you think that ITF has such an abyssal Merfolk matchup, was your testing against builds featuring Back to Basics or just the standard builds that can be found in the Merfolk threat on these boards.
I don't actually see why our matchup should be so bad as it probably plays out a bit like the Tempo Threshold matchup where I feel that ITF is actually favored.

[landstill101]

So if you think that ITF has such an abyssal Merfolk matchup, was your testing against builds featuring Back to Basics or just the standard builds that can be found in the Merfolk threat on these boards.
I don't actually see why our matchup should be so bad as it probably plays out a bit like the Tempo Threshold matchup where I feel that ITF is actually favored.

The whole problem is islandwalk. it beats you. A deed alone never beat goblins either, it always needed a swords and/or goyf mix to give deed time to actually work and because of island walk with wasteland to keep you off certain colors and stifle, this is really a pain in the ass.

EDIT:decks with back to basics which really the standards list do run.

[Adan]

I am not sure with whom I should agree, but both have a edge here.

Islandwalk, no, a hughe amount of creatures are generally bad against Counterbalance-Control decks. If they come down well timed - i.e. early - you have to solve those problems with StoP/Goyf/EE/Deed asap but at the same time assemble Counterbalance to keep further creatures off the board.

And notice how we have a clash here between Deed/EE and CBalance.

The best way against those decks is to 1st Turn Top, 2nd Turn Balance with Basic Islands and then go Goyf Goyf Goyf, StoP for Lord of Atlantis or something similar. I always try to do it that way when playing Threshold - if my hand allows me to do so.

It's also possible to slowroll a bit, force the opponent to overextend, wipe the board clean with Deed and then seal it with CBalance-Top.

Both gameplans sound a bit utopic to me, though.

[ansset]

The reason EE is better is because, postboard, you want to resolve Counterbalance and Engineered Plague, and so you will want to EE, in general, on the number that doesn't set you back.

Merfolk has manlands, so recovering from Deed is pretty easy for them. In addition, you have to invest 5-6 mana over two turns into Deed, whereas you can often EE for 2 and activate on the same turn.

I often side Deed out against Merfolk, since I want to cast 12 incredibly advantageous permanents and don't have a lot of time to tap six mana and walk into a Stifle.

[jeanbathez]

ITF is still alive

Here i found a day 2 Decklist :

Intuition Control

Andrew Cooperfauss .

127 Cooperfauss, Andrew R 21 68.3745%

Grand Prix-Chicago

4 intuition
4 force of will
4 brainstorm
4 counterbalance
4 tarmogoyf
4 swords to plowshares
3 sensei’s divining top
2 engineered explosives
2 counterspell
1 life from the loam
1 vedalken shackles
1 etched oracle
1 eternal witness
4 polluted delta
4 flooded strand
3 tropical island
3 underground sea
2 tundra
2 island
1 plains
1 wasteland
1 academy ruins
1 volrath’s stronghold
3 pernicious deed

Sideboard

4 engineered plague
2 extirpate
2 divert
2 blue elemental blast
2 krosan grip
1 raven’s crime
1 tormod’s crypt
1 life from the loam

[Unknown2]

hey guys, I've found that I've been very dissapointed with force of will in this deck. Has anybody else had this problem? I mean, don't get me wrong, FoW is essential to most blue decks as it is a free counterspell, but in this deck, I never want to RFG intuition or counterbalance. Possibly it's because I haven only been playing this deck for about a month and a half now, but that's just my opinion.

What do you guys think

[Benie Bederios]

hey guys, I've found that I've been very dissapointed with force of will in this deck. Has anybody else had this problem? I mean, don't get me wrong, FoW is essential to most blue decks as it is a free counterspell, but in this deck, I never want to RFG intuition or counterbalance. Possibly it's because I haven only been playing this deck for about a month and a half now, but that's just my opinion.

What do you guys think

Then don't... You don't have to counter things. But when an opponent playes a turn 1 Blood Moon/ Ad Nauseam, you'll be glad to pitch a card to survive.

But just out of curiosity, what would you replace force of Will with?

BB

[Unknown2]

not quite sure, I've always really wanted to fit Bob into here. Spell snare seems sub-par to me, but still a suggestion.

I'm sure there is something we can find to replace it. FoW is also sub-par with counterbalance.

This is purely suggestions, don't assume I know what I'm talking about

[ebbitten]

FoW is also sub-par with counterbalance.

I've heard of and even ran blue decks that don't have counterbalance. I used to toy around with a RBu tombstalker deck that had trinket mage and brainstorm without FoW. I do not, however, see any dis-synergy between counterbalance and FoW. multiples of Counterbances are always nice to pitch to FoW and FoW can help you land/protect a counterbalance. FoW also can be hardcast late game if you're cb/top engine lets you stall out that long for spells outside of your cb/top engine.

[Unknown2]

well, those extra counterbalances are for when you deed away your current one and don't have the mana or the turns to reccur it.

I'll keep playing arounf with it

[Citrus-God]

I started tampering around with the mana base recently so that I can get all the mana I want within a reasonable amount of turns. I also learned that Brainstorms and SDT aren't enough when trying to find all 4 of your colors. So I have these options; run more fetchlands or fit in City of Brass. As much as I hate to admit it, if I can set the game up for efficiently, then the lifeloss from City of Brass really shouldn't matter. You're going to lose life from creature beats when finding that Black mana to land that Pernicious Deed in your hand anyway. This also enables me to run REBs and Pyroclasms from the board. I havent completely tested this idea yet, but here's what I have so far


// Lands 22
1 Academy Ruins
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 City of Brass
3 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island


// Creatures 6
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Eternal Witness
1 Etched Oracle


// Spells 32
4 Brainstorm
4 Intuition
4 Counterbalance
4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Life from the Loam


// Sideboard 15
4 Pyroclasm
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
3 Krosan Grip
4 Meddling Mage/Anti-combo component

[FredMaster]

I think you are weakening your manabase more than helping it. No basics really suck.
I know that it must be awesome to kill a Morphling with an Engineered Explosives, but still your manabase looks creepy.

[Spare Parts]

Playing 1-2 CoB - maybe. But full playset? Insane. Drawing 2 CoB in opening hand against Goblins / Burn / Goyf Stompy is gg, literally. Double CoB will deal like 8-10 damage to you over a course of first few turns.

I have found manabase to be shaky as well, but CoB is not the way to go, really not.

You may try out my take at ITF manabase, I got rid of Volrath's Stronghold and kept only Academy Ruins (upping colored mana sources by 1), every land can produce blue in order to be able to always play 2nd turn CB/CS and I went up to 10 fetches. Since then, manabase is stable as all hell.

3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 Breeding Pool
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept Heath
1 Island
1 Academy Ruins

The only questionable decision is the single Breeding Pool, but in my area there are always lots of Extirpates flying around...

Please note: I do not play Eternal Witness, it never worked up to my expectations (2 green in manacost, even when recurring there is no way to sacrifice it and repeat the process 'infinitely' as with Oracle). Oracle may be recurred with Ruins and the only thing affected is Tarmogoyf recursion - but after ITF locks the game, the Oracle kills opponent as easily as goyf would.
I strongly suggest to at least give it a try.

[Citrus-God]

I've had nothing but good results from Stronghold and Witness. I probably won't be swaying towards cutting them.

I personally believe running more fetchlands might not be the way to go. Of course, I haven't tested it yet. As of now, I've cut down to 2 CoBs and replaced the other two CoBs with another Trop and another USea.

[zer0style]

Yes, DON'T cut Stronghold and Witness, at least in my opinion. They're way to good, and have always been the nuts with me. I've won many many games with Stronghold combined with Witness.

As far as the land base goes, I don't think running more fetchlands seems like the right thing to do, because in my time of playing It's the Fear, which it's been a long time, I don't think the deck could risk cutting more lands that produce color for fetchlands, even cutting the Seas down to two or something for more fetchlands is a bad idea, you need those colored lands, and as many of them as you can get so you have multiple ways to get mulitiple colors in one turn, not just two Seas.

[Spare Parts]

Yes, DON'T cut Stronghold and Witness, at least in my opinion. They're way to good, and have always been the nuts with me. I've won many many games with Stronghold combined with Witness.

As far as the land base goes, I don't think running more fetchlands seems like the right thing to do, because in my time of playing It's the Fear, which it's been a long time, I don't think the deck could risk cutting more lands that produce color for fetchlands, even cutting the Seas down to two or something for more fetchlands is a bad idea, you need those colored lands, and as many of them as you can get so you have multiple ways to get mulitiple colors in one turn, not just two Seas.

I believe that if you play the deck correctly, there is no need for Eternal Witness. Witness is only a backup plan if you screw it up.
Witness by itself is quite a bad creature. It's 2/1 and the "clock" she creates is too slow to actually matter => there is no need to block her. The only way to get her killed is
a.) block a creature - but what if opponent just won't attack or doesn't play any creatures?
b.) kill her yourself - quite mana intensive and illogical.

If I have CB+Top, I don't need to recurr cards. If I don't have CB+Top, I have to assemble it. That is all this deck is about.

After everything have been said and done, I must say that it's not like Witness is a bad creature and recurring her is a totally bad plan. It's just - this plan is not good enough. We can do better than that. Really.


And as to my manabase - I did not cut any of the duals, you must have probably mixed it up with the "City of Brass manabase of death" :D. Check the numbers:
4x UG
3x UW
3x UB
10x fetch
1x island
1x Ruins
---- 22 lands
Each color has to have at least 3 sources. We cannot go lower than that, and I am well aware of it thanks to long hours of playing the deck. This manabase has it all. Functional difference between playing 8 or 10 fetches is almost nonexistant - we are already highly susceptible to Stifle.

[bruno_tiete]

After a month or so of playing this deck at kitchen tables, I finally joined a tournament with it. I was very insecure, but tired of playing Loam, so I just gave it a shot.

I fineshed 1st without dropping a single game. This is the very very tiny report:

In round one I faced Zoo, and managed to stabilize at 2 in game one and 5 in game 2, with counterbalance and hardcastable FOW. Then dropped a goyf who took it alone. Not cashing in top in response to a bolt eot, when at 8 life was the highlight, as he had a Price of Progress to which I was sold.

In round two I face a close friend with UBG Goyf-Nought-trinket-Stalker. I beat him up to death with stolen Stalker in game 1 and locked the table in game 2 to drop a very late goyf who beat him.

In round three I faced Slivers combo. The deck can act like a tribal beatdown or do shenanigans with Dormant/Gemhide/Heart queen for an infinite combo kill. I deed him away, witnessed it back and them dropped a Goyf.
In game 2 I play Countertop and lock him while searching for plagues. He dies to his stolen Queen.

In round 4 I beat a Dragonstompy. I controled the whole game by outplaying my oponent, mainly with CB setups in advance. He cast 6 moon in 2 games. Even the one magus who got through was not a problem, as I had active shackles with an Arc Slogger taken.

In round for, I ID'ed for 1st agains Aggro Loam.

So 4-0, no games lost. My main concerns are the slow pace I play while using ITF and the recurring lack of blue cards to pitch. Had I lost any of those game 2's, I am not sure I could make game three in time.

My list was Gearharts, but the side was gathered in a hurry, with nothing in my memory, so I went:

3 Grips
4 Crypts
3 Pyroblasts
1 REB
3 Plagues
2 Threads of Disloyalty (which were mostly useless, mainly for not having what to side out)

I will keep trying this deck. I ougtha learn who to play it sometime.

[lilrikki2000]

Ive just started playtesting this deck and I was wondering why daze is not played over counterspell?

(I am no expert for this deck and have little playtesting)

[ansset]

I believe that if you play the deck correctly, there is no need for Eternal Witness. Witness is only a backup plan if you screw it up.
Witness by itself is quite a bad creature. It's 2/1 and the "clock" she creates is too slow to actually matter => there is no need to block her. The only way to get her killed is
a.) block a creature - but what if opponent just won't attack or doesn't play any creatures?
b.) kill her yourself - quite mana intensive and illogical.

If I have CB+Top, I don't need to recurr cards. If I don't have CB+Top, I have to assemble it. That is all this deck is about.

After everything have been said and done, I must say that it's not like Witness is a bad creature and recurring her is a totally bad plan. It's just - this plan is not good enough. We can do better than that. Really.


And as to my manabase - I did not cut any of the duals, you must have probably mixed it up with the "City of Brass manabase of death" :D. Check the numbers:
4x UG
3x UW
3x UB
10x fetch
1x island
1x Ruins
---- 22 lands
Each color has to have at least 3 sources. We cannot go lower than that, and I am well aware of it thanks to long hours of playing the deck. This manabase has it all. Functional difference between playing 8 or 10 fetches is almost nonexistant - we are already highly susceptible to Stifle.

You're wrong on almost all of your points. To wit:

1. Eternal Witness is really fucking strong.

So I hear that Counterbalance/Top does not, in fact, beat every deck ever, and that sometimes you even have to try to beat decks without relying on a soft lock. Goblins come to mind here. Go ahead, try to Counterbalance their Ringleader, or really do anything with it if they ever resolve Vial. Here, Eternal Witness is insanely good. In addition, it provides a lot of value against Landstill and decks with similar plans. If they aren't attacking you, THAT'S A GOOD THING. That's like trying to justify running less than 4 Counterbalance by saying, "Well, you're winning if you have one, so run 3 so you never see the second one!" Awful.

2. As for having a better plan: yes, sometimes you just Etched Oracle and pay 8 mana to draw Ancestral Recall every turn. Sometimes, though, you need to stop an attack deck, and drawing a 2/1 + a Swords to Plowshares every turn is really really good.

3. Having Stronghold can mean recurring not-Eternal Witness, too. Sometimes decks kill your Goyf. Getting those back can be good. It also contributes to furthering the soft-lock capabilities of Counterbalance by being able to put a 2 on top of your library in the late game, something that Ruins cannot do.

4. Your manabase is terrible. What do you ever want a third Underground Sea for? This deck wants Black the least of all its colors. Yes, Deed, sure, but aside from that only Etched Oracle, Stronghold, and EE on 4 want Black mana. Play 2. Also, 10 fetches is ridiculous. Enjoy the added life loss against aggro decks. The deck will run out of mana sources long before it runs out of fetchlands. You're actually increasing your dead draws lategame in exchange for absolutely nothing. Making the deck EVEN WORSE against Stifle is unappealing. If you're not a good enough player to play around Stifle, get better. There are ways to not get turn 1 fetchland Stifled. Believe me, I've beaten Canadian Thrash and Team America in matches where they held multiple Stifles. Why? Because it is actually pretty easy to not just cartwheel into Stifle.

One final point: with your manabase, you don't get to not run 4 Blue Elemental Blast, because you flat out lose to resolved Blood Moon. I don't like BEB much in this deck, and I have the relative luxury of cutting it because I run 1 Plains. Losing to Blood Moon is also unappealing. I don't really see what the deck gains with your changes, but I see a lot of what it loses.