[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)

[kicks_422]

Cutting LED's seems to be the trend. Isn't Orim's Chant and Duress working anymore to make sure the deck capitalizes on LED? Also, no back-up plan to Ad Nauseam (e.g. IGG)?

[Heresy]

List

As Breathweapon mentionned, Simian is pretty damaging. I'd like to see rite of flame in there but I don't know where. The Myst. Tutors are busted by the way (post-board too).

[georgjorge]

list

No way...you're playing a list without Doomsdays ?

[nodahero]

THE APOCALYPSE is upon us... Ironic since Doomsday is out lol...

I really don't understand why Emidln would cut Doomsday after the amazing finishes put up by Next Level. After all isn't that the type of meta game where D-Day rocks? It seems rather counter intuitive to make such a switch. Then again it is possible that he made the switch as a solution to Counter/Top after all they still gotta get to turn 2...

[emidln]

From time to time I test radically different approaches to storm combo. I tend to not post about most of them because most end up being awful. This one wasn't so I thought I'd throw it out there. SSG didn't pose any lifeloss issues. In a little over a hundred games I haven't lost any games due to SSG taking 3-6 life. I've won a ton of games playing around Daze or playing a red Blast when seemingly tapped out. It also helps to make up for the lack of LED in the maindeck.

Rite of Flame will never be better than Simian Spirit Guide in anything resembling the list I posted. Extra initial mana sources is what I was looking for, not shitty ritual effects.

[Pulp_Fiction]

@emidln: Did you test out Empty the Warrens in the main or side? Based on the disgusting amount of Red Blasts it looks to be able to beat blue easier but how about just random aggro? Without LED and IT to give you free wins and Chant/Duress to buy you time when needed it looks like this list could potentially have problems with Goblins and Eva Green. And the combo mirror would seem to be just awful. Also, the lack of a maindeck bounce spell (Wipe Away or Echoing Truth) doesn't seem so hot either. But, anyway, I will test it out and see how it plays. I am assuming the SB will look something like:

1-2 xIGG
4x LED
2-3x IT
1-3x Empty the Warrens
2-4x Slaughter Pact/creature removal spots
1-2x Echoing Truth/bounce spell
2-4x Artifact/Enchantment destruction spells

Also, could Personal Tutor potentially have a slot as a sorcery speed Mystical 5-6?

[emidln]

@emidln: Did you test out Empty the Warrens in the main or side? Based on the disgusting amount of Red Blasts it looks to be able to beat blue easier but how about just random aggro? Without LED and IT to give you free wins and Chant/Duress to buy you time when needed it looks like this list could potentially have problems with Goblins and Eva Green. And the combo mirror would seem to be just awful. Also, the lack of a maindeck bounce spell (Wipe Away or Echoing Truth) doesn't seem so hot either. But, anyway, I will test it out and see how it plays. I am assuming the SB will look something like:

1-2 xIGG
4x LED
2-3x IT
1-3x Empty the Warrens
2-4x Slaughter Pact/creature removal spots
1-2x Echoing Truth/bounce spell
2-4x Artifact/Enchantment destruction spells

Also, could Personal Tutor potentially have a slot as a sorcery speed Mystical 5-6?

Depressingly Personal Tutor doesn't find Ad Nauseam. My sb is currently like this:

3 Chain of Vapor
1 Wipe Away
2 H.Recall
2 Empty the Warrens
3 Infernal Tutor
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

I think ETW probably could be maindecked. The lack of maindeck bounce has been an issue in a few games. The list I posted was the first concept list that I started to play that had good results. It has no real tuning.

I don't know how much I care about the combo mirror. In an environment where you'd want to play this list, most people would be sane enough to not bring storm combo, and those who do are either playing a similar strategy (so you're probably not worried about Chants), managed to avoid blue so far in the event, or are not in your bracket because they've lost a few matches.

[Viscosity]

Just an idea for beating heavy control decks. I will really miss Swarm but he has been sent farming quite often lately so I am losing a little faith in the card. There is something I have really been looking into testing and that is City of Solitude but it just seems to expensive and to slow ....

Have you considered Defense Grid?

[johanessen]

Anyone tested 2/3xGrim Tutors?

[mercc]

so, can we try and narrow all these "special" cards down? :) the ones we would like against a certain type of deck but we can't have it all.
what do we want to have....

vs. Threshold with CB?
Duress
8 blasts

vs. Merfolk or slivers (aggrodecks with daze and FoW)
Duress
Pact of negation
Orims chant

vs. Survival rock / Deadguy ale
Bounce or slaughterpact vs. cannonist/teeg
Pact of negation vs. chant
LED-package (infernal, LED, IGG)

what more? :) i like the LED-package maindeck. But I dont face that many blue decks, i will prolly change my mind then.

[Pulp_Fiction]

These are the protection spells I run:

4x Orim's Chant
4x Duress

I am not a big fan of the Blast plan since it requires quite a few lands in play. If you are trying to ask what the best protection spell is, it is Orim's Chant by a clear mile (this can depend on what deck you are playing but usually this is it). Chant covers all the bases and allows you to cast IGG regardless of whats in the opponent's yard. It acts as a timewalk when cast in the early turns and OWNS Enchantress and Dredge as well as timewalks and fogs aggro, as good as it gets.

Regarding Pact of Negation, I will not argue this again in another combo thread but I will state this if you deck runs Lion's Eye Diamond then PoN is shit, if it doesn't then the card is very much viable.

[matelml]

I have a question. Anyone may answer with his opinion, the more the better.

You will play in a tournament, but may not change your maindeck. In your sideboard there are 8 cards you may fill in with any legacy legal card, ofc not playing more than 4 copies of 1 card in main and side together. All the other decks at the tournament happen to be UWG CounterTop Thresh, a pretty average list, let's say 2 Spells Snare's and no Stifle. Assuming your goal is to win as many rounds as possible, what would you fill the 8 slots with and how would you board?

This is the maindeck and partly Sb list, which you may not change.

4 LED
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Petal
3 Chrome Mox
4 Mystical Tutor
4 IT
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 AdN
1 IGG
1 ToA
4 Chant
4 Duress
4 Delta
4 Strand
1 Isle
1 Swamp
2 Sea
2 Tundra

Sb:
8 slots to fill
4 Thoughtseize
1 EtW
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's recall

If you really want to you may alter the (land)manabase a bit, but 1 Tundra, 2 Sea, and 8 fetch must stay. This because you may want to splash and play a dual of the splash color, but you could also play it Sb.

I don't care about your opinion on the rest of the Sb or maindeck for now.

[Pulp_Fiction]

That is a hideous list to take into that kind of meta. With only 14 lands and no green you have no chance at doing well plus there is no maindeck bounce spell or Ad Nauseam #2. The maindeck manabase should look like this:

4x Strand
4x Delta
1x Sea
1x Tundra
1x Island
1x Bayou
1x Scrubland
1x Trop
1x Swamp

And then those 8 slots in the SB should be:

3x Krosan Grip
3x Xantid Swarm (cut Thoughtseize, it is to counterproductive)
1x IGG (to make burn/Goyf Sligh a literal bye)
1x Slaughter Pact

[GGoober]

I was wondering, since ANT has a terrible MU against CB, why not try out Trickbind in the sideboard? Bait with Chant and if they activate top to spin or flip, Trickbind it so that for the rest of the game, CB can only counter spells from a single blind flip's cc.

I know this is clunky, but there is almost absolutely no way to beat CB if it resolves except to wipe away, for which they will try to be prepared when you tutor for Wipe away. Just an idea with Trickbind. It stops the first activation and rest of the activations for the rest of the turn. It's more mana heavy, but games aren't going to be fast if a CB is already in play. Trickbind might solve the problem of a CB ALREADY in play. Worse comes to worse, multiple Trickbinds can be used to stifle Fetches and slow your opponent from setting up CT.

[kroelai]

I have a question. Anyone may answer with his opinion, the more the better.

You will play in a tournament, but may not change your maindeck. In your sideboard there are 8 cards you may fill in with any legacy legal card, ofc not playing more than 4 copies of 1 card in main and side together. All the other decks at the tournament happen to be UWG CounterTop Thresh, a pretty average list, let's say 2 Spells Snare's and no Stifle. Assuming your goal is to win as many rounds as possible, what would you fill the 8 slots with and how would you board?

This is the maindeck and partly Sb list, which you may not change.

4 LED
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Petal
3 Chrome Mox
4 Mystical Tutor
4 IT
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 AdN
1 IGG
1 ToA
4 Chant
4 Duress
4 Delta
4 Strand
1 Isle
1 Swamp
2 Sea
2 Tundra

Sb:
8 slots to fill
4 Thoughtseize
1 EtW
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's recall

If you really want to you may alter the (land)manabase a bit, but 1 Tundra, 2 Sea, and 8 fetch must stay. This because you may want to splash and play a dual of the splash color, but you could also play it Sb.

I don't care about your opinion on the rest of the Sb or maindeck for now.

I would say:
8 slots:
2 Tropical Island
2 Krosan Grip
1 Wipe Away
3 random maybe for on the play 3 extra ETW...?

[e_hawk77]

Trickbind costs way too much. I think that you would be better off with needle. As for the what should be in the board why not board dark confidant and pact of negation and swap them for the led package. I would also say you should turn 2 thoughtsieze into wipe away.

[JohnnyCage]

So how does everyone feel about the eight blast list? I have been testing and i like it but im still not sold.

[matelml]

That is a hideous list to take into that kind of meta. With only 14 lands and no green you have no chance at doing well plus there is no maindeck bounce spell or Ad Nauseam #2. The maindeck manabase should look like this:

4x Strand
4x Delta
1x Sea
1x Tundra
1x Island
1x Bayou
1x Scrubland
1x Trop
1x Swamp

And then those 8 slots in the SB should be:

3x Krosan Grip
3x Xantid Swarm (cut Thoughtseize, it is to counterproductive)
1x IGG (to make burn/Goyf Sligh a literal bye)
1x Slaughter Pact

Ok, I understand that that is a hideous list to take into a meta like that. I'm not interested in that. This of course isn't reality, it's just a thought experiment , with as goal to get the best Sb plan against a standard CB list with the deck I play, which is in my eyes the best list for my meta, so I don't care to hear comments on the list. To make it more clear: no, my meta doesn't consist of 100% CB, otherwise I'd play a different deck.

In the situation I listed, I am not interested in making Goyfsligh a literal bye, nor in hearing I should cut Thoughtseize. This post isn't very useful for me, but thanks anyway.

An important part of the question is: how would you board with the Sb you come up with? Just giving some cards that are good against a specific card isn't very hard, it becomes harder when it needs to be integrated into a strategy/deck.

Also 3 random isn't helpful. There is of course the option of boarding in less than 8 cards and to have a different plan on the play and draw.

[JohnnyCage]

Ok, I understand that that is a hideous list to take into a meta like that. I'm not interested in that. This of course isn't reality, it's just a thought experiment , with as goal to get the best Sb plan against a standard CB list with the deck I play, which is in my eyes the best list for my meta, so I don't care to hear comments on the list. To make it more clear: no, my meta doesn't consist of 100% CB, otherwise I'd play a different deck.

In the situation I listed, I am not interested in making Goyfsligh a literal bye, nor in hearing I should cut Thoughtseize. This post isn't very useful for me, but thanks anyway.

An important part of the question is: how would you board with the Sb you come up with? Just giving some cards that are good against a specific card isn't very hard, it becomes harder when it needs to be integrated into a strategy/deck.

Also 3 random isn't helpful. There is of course the option of boarding in less than 8 cards and to have a different plan on the play and draw.

So what your doing is giving us a suboptimal list then saying try to make that work. And cutting down others advice isn't a way to get that done. Thoughtseize doesn't belong in the board and i agree with PF on that. The point everyone is making is you can't slave drive results and inspiration. You need to heed their advice. The list you posted is quite suboptimal, so asking us to go back and create a board for said list is quite the oxymoron...

[Bahamuth]

So what your doing is giving us a suboptimal list then saying try to make that work. And cutting down others advice isn't a way to get that done. Thoughtseize doesn't belong in the board and i agree with PF on that. The point everyone is making is you can't slave drive results and inspiration. You need to heed their advice. The list you posted is quite suboptimal, so asking us to go back and create a board for said list is quite the oxymoron...

He is not giving a suboptimal list at all, he just said that. Please read carefully. You can't say anything about the quality of his list, because it's dependant on the metagame it's played in, and you don't know what metagame that is. I know matelml, he can most certainly defend his card choices in this list. The list is in our metagame certainly not suboptimal. Perhaps up for debate, but not bad.

I don't see the problem with the question. He's just asking for advice on how to construct the sideboard to fight CB Threshold, not wether the rest of his list is good. You could just give a (perhaps your own?) decent SB plan against CB Thresh, and maybe it'll be usefull.