[OLD] UGr Threshold

[undone]

Trop
Island
Goose
Pyroclasm
Fire/Ice
Goyf

Basically if I draw a red I can't lose.

You would have won if you had the basic land configuration, how many games did you win via basics, how many did you lose? Simply put basics suck after first turn unless your playing against a deck with blood moon.

My personal SB would be

2 ReB
2 Pyroblast
4 Submerge
3 Clasm
2 Krosan grip
2 Threads of disloyalty

My only main deck alterations from the standard 60 would be -1 RR -1 wipe away +1 vendillion clique and +1 other creature, options would include predator, sower, and vendillion clique.

EDIT: Or maby burning tree shaman needs to make a come back, yah hes smaller than goyf but considering that he basicaly cripples top and seriously hates on fetch lands he seems really good as he prevents digging for answers or at least makes you pay for it, it also helps the survival match, the goblins match (an ass of 4 is so big and vial +port) it also helps our abismal 43 lands matchup as they cant beat that card aside from like 4 cards in thier deck.

[Jujuhawk]

I cut basics, except the island. With the ammount of aggro loam in my meta, I feel it's necessary to have the island just as an insurance against wastelock, because if they waste lock I'm pretty sure I can't win, but if I can get an early goose and stifle/waste to buy myself time (if they have a mox diamond start it's pretty hard). So in that case, I still would have lost, but you're correct, my first hand that game had 2 basics, and if the forest was just a trop/fetch like it is now I probably would have won.

[MULocke]

I cut basics, except the island. With the ammount of aggro loam in my meta, I feel it's necessary to have the island just as an insurance against wastelock, because if they waste lock I'm pretty sure I can't win, but if I can get an early goose and stifle/waste to buy myself time (if they have a mox diamond start it's pretty hard). So in that case, I still would have lost, but you're correct, my first hand that game had 2 basics, and if the forest was just a trop/fetch like it is now I probably would have won.

Question (Read: not just sarcastic comment): If you're wastelocked, but you still do have that one basic island, how are you better off? I understand you can play cantrips, but aren't you still basically screwed?

[sauce]

he could align his top deck w/ cantrip to play a tropical/fetch tropical and play a goyf at least... or fetch volcanic and lightning bolt etc..

but yes, wasteland lock crushes 99% of thresh decks

[undone]

he could align his top deck w/ cantrip to play a tropical/fetch tropical and play a goyf at least... or fetch volcanic and lightning bolt etc..

but yes, wasteland lock crushes 99% of thresh decks

If I had to pick a basic to play it would be a moutain, because if you got wastelocked before they are in burn range you just lose. But if I was really scared I would go +2 needle in the board -> beat fail phase.

if they have a mox diamond start it's pretty hard

It may be correct to force/daze diamond if you can.

[Adan]

but yes, wasteland lock crushes 99% of thresh decks

Outs:

2 Island, 1 Forest. Maybe 3 Pithing Needle somewhere in the 75 to play on Wasteland.

Just. Not. True.

It may be true for canadian Thresh, but canadian Thresh can generate a boardposition - or a speedadvantage - that will make Wastelands actually bad plays as the Loamplayer should focus on different things. Not to mention that Spell Snare can still do well in such situations and Stifle can buy nearly 1 Turn.

[Jujuhawk]

If I had to pick a basic to play it would be a moutain, because if you got wastelocked before they are in burn range you just lose. But if I was really scared I would go +2 needle in the board -> beat fail phase.



It may be correct to force/daze diamond if you can.

If I get to daze a diamond they deserve to lose anyway. Forcing it is awkward as I'd much rather force a real card like wish, or a creature. I think my gameplan is to get a creature, and just bolt/counter their creatures and hope they don't get their engine online fast enough to recover.

[Adan]

If I get to daze a diamond they deserve to lose anyway. Forcing it is awkward as I'd much rather force a real card like wish, or a creature. I think my gameplan is to get a creature, and just bolt/counter their creatures and hope they don't get their engine online fast enough to recover.

When you play TempoThresh, this is the right thing to do. At the same time, you utilize your Wastelands, Stifles and Spell Snares to generate speedadvantage and make Daze more powerful. Even if they can resolve a creature in such a situation, you can still bounce or tap it (via 4 Fire//Ice and the 2 bounce, in case of Crusher or Goyf sometimes even Bolt it) to force them into a defensive situation where they just can't efford to attack you anyway as long as the Vore is not 18/18.

Postboard their creatures become even more irrelevant through the 4 Submerge you can bring in, as well as Engineered Explosives (which is useful against Chalice as well).

[Phthisisity]

last week i ran a version of moon thresh at my local weekly legacy shin-dig and went 5-0.in a 20 person tourney i feel like part of why i won was the surprise factor of magus so i don't know if i will have continued success.

this is what my list looked like:

4x goose
4x goyf
4x magus of the moon
2x vendilion clique
1x sower
1x trygon preditor

4x ponder
4x brainstorm
4x force of will
4x daze
3x spellsnare
4x ligntning bolt
4x fire// ice

2x flooded strand
2x polluted delta
3x wooded foothills
3x volcanic island
3x tropical island
2x island
2x forest

sb:
3x pyroclasm
3x krosan grip
1x gaea's blessing (metagame choice, won me the last round against epic painter)
1x trygon predator
3x hydroblast
2x divert
2x mind harness


although i had alot of success with the deck (only lost one game all night)
i feel as though i may cut magus this week in favor of spellstutter sprite, as he is a house even if all he counters is one drops. also i think i may switch my numbers on daze and spell snare because without stifle or wasteland i feel that daze is not as strong as it could be.

if i do run the sprite do you think it would hurt to try and find room for 2-3 mutavaults in the deck?

thanx in advance -phthisisity

[leander?]

What were your matchups?

[Jujuhawk]

Pretty sure you should be playing 4 stifles over 4 creatures. Stifling their fetches allows magus to be more effective, and he gets less effective as people find out about him and fetch basics.

[Phthisisity]

@ leander?
rd1: UB faeries, fairly aggro extended port
rd2: Combo Elves! playing white for geddon
rd3: nassif's counter top list from the GP
rd4: Eva Green
rd5: UBG epic painter

rd 3 was the only time i lost a game and it was to my teammate, the ny state champ

@ jujuhawk
i agree with you on the inclusion of stifle in to the mix, however i have had alot more success as of late by playing more men in my lists so i may try and find room elsewhere.

[undone]

What are the collective thoughts on removing the rushing river and wipe away from canadian thresh in exchange for 2 guys that fly (Be it vendillion clique, sower, or trygon predator)

[rancOr_]

I've been playing +1 land +1 Vendilion Clique in those spots.
I must say the Vendilion Clique works out very nice. Its a solid beater with evasion that can put away a nasty card from ur oppo or cycle a card.
I feel like Sower is better in a CB/top shell as u can defend it then.
Trygon Predator is a nice include aswell,but in my testing a bit too slow so I prefer the Clique.

[undone]

My current build has -1 RR for +1 clique I found clique to fit the decks style aside from the whole "3 CC sucks" thing. Is clique the best creature to run there? Wipe away still seems great in it at least to me, it allows for the counterbalance bounce to burn you out at EOT.

I really wish that we had a good out to shackles and such but its becoming more and more clear to me + 4 annul in the board is mandatory for the "nassif control" match and vs any deck where it has 8 or more targets it is awsome.

This allows us more first turn outs to top and counter balance as well as shackles and deed and EE. It seems grip is just worse than annul because its too late to do it (vs alot of cards) while annul is nuts.

[Waikiki]

I found RR better then wipe away.

Also shackless never bothered me since u can easily delay the number if islands.

And goose doesn't give a shit.

[Xero_2285]

What are the collective thoughts on removing the rushing river and wipe away from canadian thresh in exchange for 2 guys that fly (Be it vendillion clique, sower, or trygon predator)

I've done this exactly (2 Trygon). And I've got to say I miss RR sometimes, but also sometimes Trygon can destroy whatever I wanted to bounce anyway so... it's still up in the air for me.

[undone]

Nassif control has become somewhat popular in my area, I havent figured out how to play against it effectivly, my gut instinct is to force only tarmogoyfs if I have a goose on the board and snare only Counter balances as bob hurts them and can be bolted. It feels like the landstill matchup in that goose is the MVP and goyf is not something you want to try and win with (control magics suck)

The waste stifle plan seems mediocer here as they have 2 basics and almost always start with one in play if they are on the play, and they can have just the psudo nuts hand of 4-5 lands.

Whats every one elses view on this, it feels even, it just seems like we should be able to do better than even on this match.

[rancOr_]

I've played against it in tournament and also tested the MU.
Nimble Mongoose is the way to go. If you keep your own Goyfs in hand,they have quite alot of dead cards: Sower,shackles,stp,confi.Ur own stifles/waste are still effective as they need more then 2 lands to get online.
The key to this matchup is to counter the CB/goyf. Burn can take care of the other creatures if necessary. T1 mongoose and spell snare are awesome here.
Its still not an easy MU,but I feel like it's 55vs.45% in ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh's favor.

[sauce]

preboard, the mongoose is a win condition if you can keep their goyfs off the board. post board, i think stifle shines more due to explosives..

if they resolve cb before u land mongoose, u are probably going to lose.