Standstill locks the game down. Ponder sets the game up. But Ponder isn't nearly as good in this deck because this deck doesn't run fetches. True, Ponder isn't Brainstorm, but it's still better with fetches.
I see the point you're making, but I'm not sure I agree. In a deck that runs an average of 18-20 lands, it seems to me that fetch-lands are kinda pointless. We don't really need to thin our deck out, and Ponder helps avoid getting mana screw and mana flood, thus effectively helping the deck run less lands.Originally Posted by gamegeek2
I've switched to a list with 4 Standstill, 3 Ponder main-deck, also including the 6-Faerie package I like (4 Spellstutter, 2 Vendillion)... And so far, it feels like living the dream to me. Hit me up if you want to see the list or test on MWS some time.
Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak
Duke, what's your super duper living the life list?
Last edited by lorddotm; 04-14-2009 at 03:49 AM.
I still feel i need more playtesting sessions but from what i've exprienced so far from running the faefolk are:
- riptide laboratory sometimes is a dead card rather you will just use him it mana to powerup mutavaults.
- spellstutter sprite's countering ability is very very limited.
- not sure if i need more lands there are times the deck is struggling with mana, sometimes its good enough.
- a resolved fatty (tarmogoyf, tombstalker, etc) is so hard to race and will eventually eat up all your creatures if you don't draw a wake thrasher.
- still have 50/50 thoughts on standstill. the draw 3 cards is just awesome.
- jitte is good im my list for me
- still have 50/50 thoughts towards ponder vs brainstorm. after you draw from a cracked standstill the instant ability of brainstorm is nice especially when your looking for countermagic or put back lands from your hand which you drew from standstill.
- the fetch lands was okay.
- the vendellion cliques performed good aswell.
- the number of lord effects seemed okay aswell though at times i wanted more so that i could race my opponents fat creatures.
The list...
4 flooded strand
3 mutavault
2 riptide laboratory
10 island
4 cursecatcher
4 lord of atlantis
3 silvergil adept
4 spellstutter sprite
2 wake thrasher
2 merrow rejereey
2 vendellion clique
2 ponder
2 brainstorm
4 force of will
3 daze
3 standstill
4 aether vial
2 umezawa's jitte
i was wondering if anyone had tried playing mothdust changeling.., its a 1 cc card that would give your spellstutter sprite more threats to counter and giving you a more 1st turn drop.
i would like to test 3 of them atleast or 3 tidal warrior they both have mediocre abilities but the mothdust would boost the countering effect of spellstutter while the tidal warrior could grant islandwalk to a non blue deck.
but what to cut...
I'm running 21 presently in my deck and I am loving it. I'm running 4 Vault, 3 Wasteland, 2 riptide and 12 island.
While it does negate the possibility of going B2B in the board (which can be a game breaker against some decks), it gives you a lot of power. I need to spend more time with the spellstutters - but I feel that they will be decent jitte carriers if nothing else.
I see riptide as more of a mid-late game card. It lets you draw a land every turn or bounce your counters back to your hand. Early game it's just another colorless land which sucks but really does give the deck staying power.
I'm really tempted to maindeck sowers - 4 mana to steal a goyf is a pretty good deal to me - and you can bounce it with your lab if you need to. They're religated to the board at the moment.
Well, my friend's thinking about building Merfolk to play in legacy (10-proxy local tourneys). I'm looking at this list right now:
12 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland
2 Riptide Laboratory
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Merrow Reejerey
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Aether Vial
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Standstill
2 Stifle
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Like what often happens, Daze gets the nod for necessary cuts. Vendilion Clique is excellent and makes 3-counter Vials much stronger (as many of us have discovered).
My main concern is the number of Islands it runs - 12 has seemed too low to me. I don't like the prospect of going to 3 Wasteland, but Riptide is important, providing some staying power. I don't want any more than 22 lands - 22 seems like the right number.
Mothdust Changeling and Tidal Warrior are both really underpowered, I can't see rationalizing any cuts for 1/1s with bad abilities; I mean Tidal Warrior was defensible pre-Cursecatcher but that was just because the 1cc Merfolk were that horrible, with a decent one finally securing the spot, I wouldn't look back.
TPDMC
I (wishfully) think that there is some untapped potential with something like Mothdust Changeling/Puresight Merrow but it would be a very different deck.
Anyone here tried Vedalken Shackles much yet?
Personally, I like it in theory at least... Picked up the idea from playing a couple mirror matches against Picelli. I haven't really gotten it out in too many games where it's mattered much yet, but I still need to test it more. The issue to me is that I'm not sure if my 11 islands are really enough to power it effectively...
So, in other news, I've dropped the Faeries... For now. I've found cutting Wake Thrasher to be a pretty horrible idea...
Speaking of Wake Thrasher, the one piece of tech I'm absolutely loving these days is 1x Minamo, School at Water's Edge. To put it simply, it's fucking fantastic.
Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak
What exactly is the Minamo used for? I fail to see any Legendary permanents in the deck, save for Jitte, which has no need to be untapped.
"Maybe a long life does have to be filled with many unpleasant conditions if it's to seem long. But in the event, who wants one?"
"I do," Dunbar told him.
"Why?" Clevinger asked.
"What else is there?"
It can untap itself a whole bunch making wake thrasher rather.....large. I feel it falls a bit in the danger of cool things catagory, but on the flip side, it only costs one slot.
Yeah, that's the trick, that's how it's used... I see what you mean about the "danger of cool stuff" but I think you said it best: It only costs one slot. Personally, I just run one Minamo in the place of a basic Island (giving me about 11 Islands), and it hasn't eaten a Wasteland yet...
Although it seems gimmicky, I've found Minamo to be amazing in the event that you get yourself into top-deck mode, providing of course that you have a Thrasher you can keep in play. In this event, it literally turns all your Islands into assets you can use to race your opponent more effectively.
Basically, to me the question boils down to "Why not run one Minamo instead of one Island?" ...And the fact that it makes us, what... 5% more vulnerable to non-basic hate... Well, so far it just seems like a non-issue. Especially since it is still usable under Back to Basics...
Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak
Yes they are unpowered indeed but since his a changeling he will boost the effectiveness of spellstutters. And add to your 1st turn drop which i think is important.
The problem I felt before when i was running a full merfolk list was you tend to wait for your lords to power up your army when your faced with just 1 big fatty and when another fatty resolves even your lords can't help. In this kind of situation TIdal Warrior shines assuming you have a lord in play aswell. But sometimes they don't come together since i just run 2 tidal warrior in my previous list. As compared to creatures with evasion a single jitte could boost your aggro power level by a ton.
Let's face it. Fatties these days are Stalker and Goyf. Both are handled by Relics. JItte boost your aggro power but you have to run 2-3 to benefit.
I strongly dislike running singletons of cards that are seen as important (the one exception being Minamo - because you don't want to have to sac lands for no reason).
If you want to use Jitte, run 2-3.
If you're having problems with fatties - use wake thrasher. Especially comboed with minamo (but even without), he should be able to steamroll both on his own (even without Lord/Reej backup).
Otherwise, hold your counterspells for when these guys are cast. Ususally players will tap out for stalker (especially if they're playing eva green) rather than lose all their GY cards. Daze should get the job done. If you're playing Faefolk, it's not unreasonable to be able to spellstutter a goyf (or daze if they're playing him turn 2). When you can't, you FoW.
Relic does nerf goyfs (and can proactively nerf stalkers if you play your cards right), but for me the real problem in maindecking them is that they are dead cards against goblins, meathooks, etc. Jitte, even if you just have a few counters on it, can win you the game. It can make their threat smaller, make yours bigger, or stall by gaining life.
That said, I do play a few relics in my board - and I suspect they will come in for about 50% of my matches, but they aren't quite versatile enough for me to want them main.
Nice philosophy. But why would anybody else possibly follow you off the cliff?
The first card is better than the second. This can be seen with Isamaru getting split with Savannah Lions, but it can also be seen in other situations. Would you rather have 2 Jitte or 1 Jitte+X? Would you rather have 2 Daze or 1 Daze+X? Would you rather have 2 Standstill or 1 Standstill+X?
For most cards, the first card adds the most value to the deck, since it's impossible to draw multiples of it, and the fourth card adds the least because by that point, the differential probability of drawing a singleton falls behind the differential probability of drawing a multiple.
Whenever you run 3-of a card, you're saying that the diminishing returns on that card is such that the fourth card would add less value than the 61st conceivable card but that the third is better).
Whenever you run a 2-of card, you're making the same claim (the third card is worse than the 61st conceivable card, but the second card is better).
This claim is obviously at least as valid for 1-of cards. I never understand how people can run 3-ofs but then categorically reject running a 1-of.
A Merfolk example: Everyone running Minamo runs 1x. Why? Because Minamo is barely better than an Island, if at all, and drawing 2x Minamo really sucks. The people running 1x obviously think Minamo is better than Island, at least marginally. Although running 2x doesn't give you a big shot at drawing 2x Minamo, that tiny chance to get totally screwed on a card draw is bigger than the tiny improvement by turning a second Island into a Minamo. Thus, the 61st conceivable card (Island) is worse than Minamo, but a second Minamo is worse than an island.
It seems like you're relying on your opponent making terrible play mistakes. Losing your 5/5 to a midgame/blanked Daze is an excellent way to lose a game. EDIT: Comparatively, -1/-1 on a Tarmogoyf that may or may not exist in the drawn cards is minor. And very often they'll be able to dig out old Tomby without dumping their whole yard anyway. Saving Daze for the endgame is a decision that only works on the worst magic players. If my opponent gives me the opportunity to daze something of consequence early, I'll definitely pounce rather than praying my opponent punts his Tombstalker away.Otherwise, hold your counterspells for when these guys are cast. Ususally players will tap out for stalker (especially if they're playing eva green) rather than lose all their GY cards.
Thanks for the tip! That's absolutely brilliant!When you can't, you FoW.
Relic can be cycled when it's "dead." Especially against Meathooks, which is a pretty slow deck, I'm sure you'll be able to use it to cycle down. The ability to neuter ANT, Threshold, AggroLoam, Ichorid, Team America I think outweighs paying an extra 2 sometimes.Relic does nerf goyfs (and can proactively nerf stalkers if you play your cards right), but for me the real problem in maindecking them is that they are dead cards against goblins, meathooks, etc. Jitte, even if you just have a few counters on it, can win you the game. It can make their threat smaller, make yours bigger, or stall by gaining life.
I also think Jitte is a good card, but what's with you listing all the card abilities/giving retardedly superficial advice about playing? By the way, you forgot to mention how you can equip Jitte for 2. I try to use that ability at least once per time that I cast Jitte as it's important.
Oh, and what's this? Relic gives Wakethrasher +1/+1? OMG! I mentioned ANOTHER thing that you can do with the cards in your deck!
I'm sure what you're saying isn't so patronizing and condescending, but pretending like we don't know what Jitte/Force of Will does really gets old (especially when it appears that you don't know what Relic does since you indicate it's a dead card against Meathooks where you easily have time to cycle it).
I'd call it crap against Goblins, but not much else. There are MUs where I'd board it out same as Jitte.
If a card is important to see in a game, running 1 in 60 gives you the least possible chance to draw it.
Probability of drawing a card in your opening 7 (approx):
1/60: 12%
2/60: 21%
3/60: 28%
4/60: 34%
If a card is _important_ to your master plan, you should not run 1x unless you have some way to tutor for it. By running 1xs you are increasing the luck factor of your deck - which is fine if you understand it - but it's not going to be as consistent. It's called math - last time I checked magic used quite a bit of it.
Nowhere did I advocate saving daze for the lategame. I'm saying that if you are putting the hurt on a black deck, they may need to drop stalker without leaving extra mana up because they need to change the board position. Any player who's read the card understands that daze is the most valuable early game.It seems like you're relying on your opponent making terrible play mistakes. Losing your 5/5 to a midgame/blanked Daze is an excellent way to lose a game. And very often they'll be able to dig out old Tomby without dumping their whole yard anyway. Saving Daze for the endgame is a decision that only works on the worst magic players. If my opponent gives me the opportunity to daze something of consequence early, I'll definitely pounce rather than praying my opponent punts his Tombstalker away.
Meathooks isn't any slower than we are. Cycling relic isn't bad, but you lose tempo doing it - I'd rather see something in my hand that is going to be useful (in some sense) in just about every matchup instead of one that will be useful in a handful of them.Relic can be cycled when it's "dead." Especially against Meathooks, which is a pretty slow deck, I'm sure you'll be able to use it to cycle down. The ability to neuter ANT, Threshold, AggroLoam, Ichorid, Team America I think outweighs paying an extra 2 sometimes.
Word to the wise - a rant-laden post that's about 2-3 times longer than the post its complaining about is probably just as annoying than someone stating the obvious. Obviously the people who've been playing the deck for a while know how things work, but not everyone reading the thread is a merfolk veteran.
I'm currently back from having tested quite goodly Sower of Temptation in that 2 slots which -i 'm convinced of- must at all costs be dedicated to creature stealing / creature facing (i.e. "virtual " removals), and i must admit i was quite unimpressed. The fact that they cost 4 seems slightly controproductive especially when this deck needs to gain control in the first turn of the game wastelanding /dazing threats, and indeed, even when i was able to steal a random opponent's fattie, it didn't really change the situation, especially against green-fatties based decks ( the matchups for which this card was choosed).
Indeed, i was thinking, as DukeDemonKn1ght said, that the power of Vedalken Shackles could really find an adequate placement here. The possibility of trading 2 creatures and making them clash among them is really appealing, and i feel Shackles is really that "late game bomb " this deck couldn't find. Moreover, the greatest advantage of Shackle is that it can steal any threat, and this makes it way better than narrow solutions such as Threads of Disloyalty ( or Mind Harness, for those of you who have ever played or considered it). And it's way less subjected to removal than how Sower is, ofc.
The point , of course, is that Shackles performs in many games on an underpowered level, because of the many utility lands we play; therefore, it can't be always considered an otpimal / gamebreaking tool, and this is the main reason i'm still not toally sold on it. But i still see it as one of the more versatile ways we have to prevent bigger cratures from smashing us in certain situations, even if it really requires a controllish input to get to the late game and exploit it. Have someone tested it enough to give an exaustive speech -and personal thought- about trying or not trying it?
Other quick notes that (perhaps) could interest someone: without stifles, this deck really performs in a more slowish and "gearing " way. In several opening hands, i found myself with a hand full of good merfolks (2lords, 2reejereys, 1 thrasher and 1 adept, plus 2 lands, f.e.), but i was forced to practically waste the first turn waiting for the 2nd drop. I think that , in the lists which have cut stifles and relics for different, more costy solutions, we must compensate this lack in the curve putting some 1-cc drops, to help smoothing the curve itself (and even to make vial better, somehow). For this reason, i returned considering tidal warrior, which provides all these benefits, and applies the ones that everyone already knows.
And, still, i found few situations where i'd rather have had a stifle than other cards.
I also tried Submerge in side, but, despites its sinergy with standstill, fetches, ecc, it never changed really the match situation. Perhaps i wasn't able to cast it in the proper moment or more simply, i didn't meet a single "proper moment", but meh, still not convinced.
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You could try Threads or Control Magic instead of Submerge. And I would try Waterfront Bouncer in the MD. I found it to be very good in testing.
Team Unicorn is too hetero for me.While this is close it's still wrong. Every one knows it's an orgy of unicorns.******s?
TeaM NOVA for life.
Waterfront Bouncer is hella good, I think... But there's not really much space in the deck as far as 2-drops go. I think what Picelli meant is that by dropping Stifle, we effectively leave ourselves with 8 one-drops (Cursecatcher and Aether Vial), which isn't quite enough. Personally I've always liked Tidal Warrior, although I admit he's not like *the best Merfolk I could imagine for one mana*. I've personally cut Stifle and so far I haven't had cause to regret it. And although I agree that Bouncer's effect is probably stronger than T-Warrior's overall, the problem is that we need to keep the curve as low as possible.
*In my opinion, this deck just has too many "auto include" cards for two mana for Bouncer to find a home here.
Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak
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