[Deck] Ichorid

[GoldenCid]

Turn One:
1. Lay land
2. Unmask targeting self. Place Dredger in Graveyard.
3. Play Breakthrough (or Careful Study).
4. Win

Pretty fast, neh?

Jjajaj...yeah but i was refering when you don't make you target of unmask...i know!!

[Parcher]

@ Parcher: What do you cut to test the 1-2 Firestorm in the main. Unmask or something other?

1 Unmask, and 1 PImp.

I know it breaks one of the cardinal rules of the deck, but here's the reasoning. Main deck Firestorm makes it almost impossible to lose game one. Control's only chance is to stop your early discard outlets; Firestorm cancels that. No "Big Creature Aggro"(Aggro-Loam)deck can race since you can chump block, so they aren't a worry. And any Tribal gets wrecked by Firestorm even if they had a chance game one. The problem is that excepting the actual discard part, (of which there are 24 already in the deck) it doesn't actually help the deck with it's primary strategy. So it can not only cause more mulligans in certain match-ups, Firestorm can also sort of freeze your hand if you have a lack of targets or your opponent can keep you off of Red mana.

@GoldenCid: If you have that opening hand, why would you Unmask your opponent? If you mean you have an opening hand where your only action is: "Unmask you, Go." then mulligan.

[Nemcon]

1 Unmask, and 1 PImp.

I know it breaks one of the cardinal rules of the deck, but here's the reasoning. Main deck Firestorm makes it almost impossible to lose game one. Control's only chance is to stop your early discard outlets; Firestorm cancels that. No "Big Creature Aggro"(Aggro-Loam)deck can race since you can chump block, so they aren't a worry. And any Tribal gets wrecked by Firestorm even if they had a chance game one. The problem is that excepting the actual discard part, (of which there are 24 already in the deck) it doesn't actually help the deck with it's primary strategy. So it can not only cause more mulligans in certain match-ups, Firestorm can also sort of freeze your hand if you have a lack of targets or your opponent can keep you off of Red mana.

@GoldenCid: If you have that opening hand, why would you Unmask your opponent? If you mean you have an opening hand where your only action is: "Unmask you, Go." then mulligan.

Is this cutting one Unmask from 3 Main, or 4 main? I was debating this, but I would probably cut a putrid and maybe an ichorid ( I run 4 main, I think 3 is still great enough) for the 2 Firestorms, maybe a 3rd one, but I'm not sure if I'd want a third of that or the 3rd Unmask.

[GoldenCid]

@GoldenCid: If you have that opening hand, why would you Unmask your opponent? If you mean you have an opening hand where your only action is: "Unmask you, Go." then mulligan.

Great. So...the first reason for running unmask is not to disrupt your opponent but discarding yourself to accelerate the combo??

[NecroYawgmoth]

I think that depends on the Situation...

...sometimes you need to play it on yourself, sometimes you need it to disrupt their gameplan

Unmask is also good against Combo

[Surging Chaos]

Unmask is free disruption; it's great stuff when you can yank out a Force from your opponent before playing your Pimp or a Breakthrough or something like that. That's why it's good. It makes Cabal Therapy a lot better as well. It just so happens that you can also use it on yourself just like Therapy if you have to.

[Nemcon]

Unmask is free disruption; it's great stuff when you can yank out a Force from your opponent before playing your Pimp or a Breakthrough or something like that. That's why it's good. It makes Cabal Therapy a lot better as well. It just so happens that you can also use it on yourself just like Therapy if you have to.

Exactly, many times I'll play it to take out their counters, but when I have the chance for a T1 win against a deck that doesnt have counters and the like, and I have a breaktrhough and only one mana, I can't play PImp and Breakthrough together. So I can Unmask myself, get a dredger in the yard, and combo off with the breakthrough. It happens more often than you think/

[GoldenCid]

I think that depends on the Situation...

...sometimes you need to play it on yourself, sometimes you need it to disrupt their gameplan

Unmask is also good against Combo

I'll run 3x unmask, 2 DR and a 12 lands mana base!! I'll take the risk!!

[sunshine]

Great. So...the first reason for running unmask is not to disrupt your opponent but discarding yourself to accelerate the combo??

No, but having the ability to get dredgers in the yard is generally more important than having the ability to disrupt your opponent. Parcher's comment has more to do with the decks priorities than Unmask's intended uses.

[Nemcon]

Well, I've been convinced how great Firestorm main is. Uncounterable discard really is dope. Though I'm not sure if I want to go and run 2 main, or 3 main, and 2 or 3 unmask (Right now I'm running 2 storms, 3 unmask)
Which frees up slots in the board for Chalices - are they still worth it? Or would it be better to just run some removal for enchants/artifacts (like ancient grudge, ray of revelation.

Right now, this is what I have:
Maindeck:
Land: 11
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
3 Cephalid Coliseum

Creature:
4 Narcomoeba
3 Putrid Imp
3 Ichorid

4 Golgari Grave Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug

1 Eternal Witness
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
1 River Kelpie

Other:
4 Bridge from Below
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Breaktrhough
2 Deep Analysis
2 Dread Return

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Unmask
2 Firestorm

Side:
4 Pithing Needle
4 Chain of Vapor
1 Firestorm
1 Unmask
5 Open (Right now I run 3 Chalice, 1 Ancestor's Chosen, 1 Woodfall Primus, but I don't know certainly)

[GoldenCid]

@GoldenCid: If you have that opening hand, why would you Unmask your opponent? If you mean you have an opening hand where your only action is: "Unmask you, Go." then mulligan.

In which match ups would side in wispame instead of chain of vapor?? Landstill ---> Humillity???

[Parcher]

In which match ups would side in wispame instead of chain of vapor?? Landstill ---> Humillity???

Probably only Stax, since tChalice cancels Chain, and Ghostly Prison is their only relevant card. Any other match where you would bring in Wispmare, you would likely also bring in Chain. Landstill isn't one of them unless they run Moat since Plague, Deed, Halo, and Humility are all easy to beat.

[NecroYawgmoth]

seriously, how could the most of you, only play 2 DRs?

I've tested it for a week now, the time before, I always played 3.

Now, when I am playing only 2, I see tons of Situations, where I could win now, and not the follwing turn, if I only had 3 Returns.

When you play with Witness, I think it is needed to play with 3 DRs, cuz 2 isn't enough or what do you think?

[alderon666]

Best choice I made and never looked back was adding 1 Woodfall Primus MD.

Advantages:
- MD anwers to shit like Ghostly Prison, Solitary Confinement, and the works.
- Another DR target that seals games on turn 1, 2 and 3 by thrashing opponents lands, hand and making an army of zombies.
- Just a big fat ass, not exactly Akroma but trample helps.

Disadvantages:
- Takes a slot that doesn't help winning the game in the late game when you need to win NOW!
- Doesn't kill creatures!
- Doesn't have evasion!

I just think playing without something like Woodfall Primus or Angel of Despair hurts you chances of game 1. Which is your game, if you can't win the only game played without sideboard you're in bad shape fighting grave removal game 2 and 3.

[NecroYawgmoth]

lol, I don't think that playing without an random fattie hurtens the chance of winning the first game.

Dredge is just an extremely powerful deck, and its nearly impossible to stop without hate, thats the reason why you should always almost win game 1. (sure bad dredges can happen, but that's Magic)


Which decks play mainboard stuff like Ghostly Prison?

The only deck that comes to my mind is MUC with Propaganda, but a Witness can get you a Land or a LED to swing under a Propaganda with a Big GGT, so you don't need the Primus or Angel main, really.


YawG

[alderon666]

It depends on your metagame, if it's fully developed which means evrybody is playing Counterbalance + Divining Top then the fatty isn't all that useful. But if you have people playing Enchantress, Stax then the Woodfall is very useful and wins you games that otherwiser you just couldn't win.

[GoldenCid]

Here is another 26 Players Tournament report with my LED Dredge. I ran 3x Unmask main deck instead of careful study and the following side:

4 Needle
4 CoV
4 Firestorm
1 Ancestor's chosen
2 Wispmare

Road to the Top 8

Round 1: Random deck. Combo off twice. Nothing else. 2-0. 1-0-0
Round 2: Mono Black Control. G1: Combo off in T3. G2: Ichorid beatdown makes things possible. 2-0. 2-0-0
Round 3: Affinity. G1: A Top decked fling on atog sends me home when i have almost won the game. G2: He mulls to 5 and firestorm does the rest.
G3: Needle on atog and a forced tormod was tightly enought for the win. 2-1. 3-0-0.
Round 4: Intentional draw. 3-1-1.

Top 8

Quarterfinal: Domain (Glup!! Almost a random deck for me) It was a 2-1. Here i learnt that against random always is healthy sideboarding 4 Needle + 4 CoV. 4-1-0.

Semifinal: MUC. I crapped this round and he did his things. 4-1-1.

3rd Place: Sea stompy. Mulls + Bad dredge (really) + 4 lands sent me to the 4th place of the tournament.

In summary...i'm glad for the4th place (I haven't played ichorid for 3 months) but unfourtunately i couldn't feel the power of unmask in the main deck properly. I think i have to learn more about this card.

[keys]

What are your sideboard plans for specific match ups? I'm mostly wondering what you take out to make room for everything without diluting the deck.

[GoldenCid]

What are your sideboard plans for specific match ups? I'm mostly wondering what you take out to make room for everything without diluting the deck.

Some pages ago:

Using that sideboard, this is the closest I could give to an accurate, blanket guide. This is assuming you see no Black spells in Game one, and have to bet on Crypt coming in:

Blue-based Control with Crypt:

+ 4 Chain
+ 4 Needle

- 4 LED
- 2 DA
- 1 Dread Return
- 1 Witness

Aggro with Crypt:

+ 4 Firestorm
+ 4 Needle

-3 Unmask
-1 DA
-1 FKZ
-1 Dread Return
-2 LED

Blue-based Control splash Black (Jailer):

+ 4 Chain
+ 3 Firestorm

-2 Putrid Imp
-2 LED
-2 DA
-1 Dread Return


Aggro with Black (Leyline):

+ 4 Chain
+ 2 Ray

-3 Unmask
-1 FKZ
-1 Dread Return
-1 DA

Survival (Leyline, Jailer, and Magus):

+ 4 Firestorm
+ 4 Chain

-3 Unmask
-1 FKZ
-1 Dread Return
-1 DA
-1 Putrid Imp
-1 LED

Non-Blue Board Control (Stax, Rock, etc.):

+ 4 Chain
+ 2 Ray

-1 FKZ
-2 DA
-1 Narcomoeba
-1 Dread Return
-1 Putrid Imp

(Storm)Combo:

+ 3 Firestorm
+ 1 Unmask

-2 Putrid Imp
-1 Ichorid
-1 Golgari Thug

[keys]

Ok cool.

So that's with a SB consisting of:
4 Needle
4 Firestorm
4 Chain of Vapor
2 Ray of Revelation
1 Unmask

Good to know.

I've got a couple more questions:

How do you choose between Ray of Revelation and Wispmare?
Is artifact destruction unnecessary (e.g. ancient grudge/ingot chewer)?
Woodfall Primus or Angel of Despair maindeck? (How might that inclusion affect your SB picks?)