For me if bant aggro becomes popular the only cards ive can come up so far to use against them are:
- hibernation
- submerge
- back to basics
Mid range fatties are so hard to deal with especially for merfolk cause they are just too dumb combat wise. The island walk will be big though..
I don't like the hedge mage...-.-Originally Posted by bokepa
I have 6 blasts and 2 additional jitte's in board against Goblins...i went 2-1 against Goblins =)
but i think you could cut one of those Jitte for another thing....
Also 4 Stifle is too much...
@the guy who want to cut Wasteland...
you can never cut Wasteland...that cards is soo goood =)
Stifle is bad on the draw and if they don't have a fetchland...
but Wasteland is in every situation so good...
But i still don't see any need for Stifle in the Maindeck
MidrangeFattie.dec means more reliance on non-basics, and that means more fetches to stifle and duals to waste. With mana denial and dazes, you should be set.
No offense, but that didn't really explain anything.
I mean, having a total of 8 manlands alongside 4 Vial (specifically in the Sprite/Lab deck with no additional form of LC [Port, Tidal Warrior, Stifle] and no large finisher [Wake Thrasher]) seems very beneficial for dropping a Standstill early in the game to begin applying pressure against aggro control and control. Against aggro I can't see why an extra creature wouldn't be better than a Wasteland. I would assume extra threats that just so happen to double as a land would be welcome in this kind of deck with very few real beaters trying to abuse Standstill.
I understand Wasteland can randomly screw an opponent out of color or just land in general, but that's about the only benefit I could imagine here. Factory is even just as good against opposing Factories.
Now, this is all speculation, but if you don't agree, can I get a better explanation than just "it's soooo good"?
Re: Wasteland vs. Factory
IMO, the ability to prevent your opponent from playing spells seems better than having a factory that's able to block other factories-wasteland kills opposing factories even when standstill is out so you can keep swinging. Whenever my opponent drops a factory and I don't have a wasteland under standstill it stops the flow of aggression and allows them to come back in the game after stabilizing. Of course, if you have islandwalk then it's a non issue but you won't always have a lord of atlantis on the field and they won't always be playing blue.
Plus, the color screw/tempo setback of wasteland is pretty good-I've used wasteland to prevent my opponent from wrathing the board (playing Wrath of God) multiple times in my testing against landstill, for example.
Hi guys,
I'm new to this thread and I'd like to build a Merfolk deck as part of a testing gauntlet. Would there be some kind of composite, standard decklist with the currently general agreement over the different slots ? if so, I'd very much appreciate it if someone could point it out to me.
Thanks.
ParkerLewis, you'll find all the general Merfolk information you need to get started in the opening post of this thread. Good luck!
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
@ The Wasteland VS. Mishra's Factory discussion:
In my experience, Wasteland is definitely worth including, even in lists that don't run Stifle or Tidal Warrior. The awesome thing about Wasteland is not necessarily that it is dedicated land destruction... If you think about it, even a list with 4 Stifle, 4 Wasteland, 4 Tidal Warrior wouldn't really qualify as a dedicated mana-denial deck. Wasteland is a tempo card for this deck, in that generally speaking, it forces the opponent to play spells on approximately the same curve that we do. The fact that this deck's curve runs the rather limited curve of 1-3 is no accident, we want to focus on applying pressure during the early game and limit the opponent's development going into the mid- (or god forbid the late-) game. Man-lands are good in this deck, but eight would be too many. Because we don't play many lands, and want to summon creatures aggressively in the early game, generally speaking we start swinging with man-lands once we've established some board presence, usually tapping out during our early turns.
I think any more than 4 man-lands is probably excessive, and if you include Mishra's Factory, theoretically speaking you would be using 8. This is because Mutavault > Factory in this deck, so the first four copies of 'Vault are assumed if you run any Factories at all. And if you do, you should note that Factory is a card that functions the best when you run 4, which pretty much automatically puts you at 8 man-lands. This would just be redundancy to the point of complete excess, while cutting a card that serves a very valuable function in this deck..
Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak
Craaaazy Idea:
This is out of left field, but bear with me: Has anyone considered Mana Vortex in this deck? As far as I can see it, there are basically two cards that it hurts that we use: Wake Thrasher, and Mutavault. This is because sacrificing lands means that we have less permanents to untap and less mana to activate Mutavault if we're sacrificing a land every turn.
I feel that it's a card that would probably require a little bit of working around, and it might eventually end up being better in the sideboard... Or I may just be having a senior moment again, and suggesting a card that just doesn't work for us.
However, I can see this card giving our deck a good aggressive edge, potentially. By keeping the mana available to both players in the ranger of two or three lands a turn, we should be able to impede the opponent's development enough to just keep eating away chunks of their life.
Also, Mana Vortex has beastly nice synergy with both Aether Vial and Daze.
**I was just wondering if there were any intelligent minds out there that felt like weighing in on the idea. Please don't just trash me or be derisive though, I'm not quite in the mood, and I think this is an idea that does actually have potential...
Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak
Sorry but this idea just sucks. This strategy is only worth it when you have a Vial out which is usually target number one for desctruction / counter against a control player. This makes Mana Vortex depenedant on another card completely because in all other cases Mana Vortex is just very bad because it hurts us hard considering we just play 19-20 Lands without a lot of instant carddraw. A lot of decks can just recover faster from a Mana Vortex because either they play more land or can find land faster. The only deck where I can see Mana Vortex is blue stax and even there it is not played as far as I know. Even if I consider playing Mana Vortex if you have a creature plus on the table Mana Vortex is too slow to hold this advantage (Armageddon would be different).Craaaazy Idea:
This is out of left field, but bear with me: Has anyone considered Mana Vortex in this deck? As far as I can see it, there are basically two cards that it hurts that we use: Wake Thrasher, and Mutavault. This is because sacrificing lands means that we have less permanents to untap and less mana to activate Mutavault if we're sacrificing a land every turn.
I feel that it's a card that would probably require a little bit of working around, and it might eventually end up being better in the sideboard... Or I may just be having a senior moment again, and suggesting a card that just doesn't work for us.
However, I can see this card giving our deck a good aggressive edge, potentially. By keeping the mana available to both players in the ranger of two or three lands a turn, we should be able to impede the opponent's development enough to just keep eating away chunks of their life.
Also, Mana Vortex has beastly nice synergy with both Aether Vial and Daze.
**I was just wondering if there were any intelligent minds out there that felt like weighing in on the idea. Please don't just trash me or be derisive though, I'm not quite in the mood, and I think this is an idea that does actually have potential...
I like the idea DDK, unfortunately, Mana Vortex has a single line which makes it useless:It simply won't last (also, Daze doesn't have good synergy with Mana Vortex because of this). So even if you adjust your deck to it, your opponent can simply let Mana Vortex die and build up again. In a format where 2-3 lands are enough, Mana Vortex just doesn't cut it.
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
The sad part is that our deck would lose way faster than decks with Crucible or Life from the Loam.
Pair that with the fact that we don't run Merfolk Lackey, or Merfolk Warchief (Stonybrook Banneret blows), there is pretty much only 1 way we can take advantage of this card... aether vial.
But Goyf costs 2 and this costs 3. You better have a pretty godly draw to have that situation turn out in your favor, and if you already have a godly draw, why do you need to take out their land drop a turn?
As well as Danger of Cool Things and we need creatures more than enchantments that don't give immediate results.
Without testing, my first thought is that Mana Vortex will be worse than Back to Basics in most situations. There will be times when you have vial out and get to win off the temp stolen by Vortex, otherwise it's a suboptimal topdeck or unplayable if you're behind. I would still be interested to hear the results of any testing you did with it, Winter Orb would also be interesting since you can break its symmetry with Reejerey and Vial.
Reejerey doesn't trigger on vialed-in creatures. You'll need stuff like Pestermite and Riptide Laboratory to pull this off.
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
I think he means you can untap your lands after casting a guy with reejery out, or you can cheat guys in with vial. Not that the two together are the way to exploit Winter Orb.
This. Disjoint Union, not the two combined. Sorry if I was unclear.
Edit: Also, you could tap down your opponents lands, breaking the symmetry in the other direction.
Last edited by sunshine; 04-27-2009 at 10:59 AM.
Hey guys,
I am new to The Source and new to this deck. I want to try it out and was looking at the Merfolks out there. Since this deck needs momentum and a fast army, could Saprazzan Heir fit in there?
It could grow thanks to the Lords, it can whoop but most important: the opponent must choose between damage or you getting 3 cards (= more army!).
EDIT: I see erbs wanted to test it. Did you yet?
Basically, we have tried any "decent" merfolk in all Mtg sets, and the ones you usually see in every list are the best we could find out. So, if Saprazzan heir isn't there, probably because she's too weak to fit in. The opponent won't be so stupid to take damage from a cc2 1/1 (or 2/2 -3/3 in the better cases), while he slaps you wit his cc2 5/6. he would block it only in desperate cases , but that would mean you're going already to win, so Saprazzan heir's ability= "win more " one. Ergo, she doesn't make the cut.
EDIT: if Wizzy will ever print a Taunting Merfolk, (perhaps) she could find an application.
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I never really get the whole argument that Wasteland has to be accompanied by Stifle. I never hear any goblin player use this argument.
What am I not understanding here?
So, yeah... I tested it for like two games before coming to the same conclusion that everyone else seems to: It's just not effective.
I guess this is what happens when I stay up getting "Irie" and watching cable until four in the morning and then convince myself I have a brilliant idea. Thanks for not trashing me at least, I can see that this was sort of a half-baked idea.
Anyhow, it's been a while since I've posted a list, so I thought I'd show where I'm at these days with my more "regular" Merfolk list. What I'd really like help with is deciding which cards to cut from the sideboard, because basically at the moment there are like 26 cards to choose from, so obviously I need to shave down to 15.
THRASHING MERFOLK:
4 Cursecatcher
2 Tidal Warrior
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejerey
3 Wake Thrasher
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Aether Vial
4 Standstill
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
3 Mutavault
4 Wasteland
11 Island
POTENTIAL SIDEBOARD CARDS (and how many I would use):
Relic of Progenitus (0-2)
Back to Basics (0-2)
Hydroblast (0-3)
Divert (0-3)
Pithing Needle (0-3)
Thorn of Amethyst (0-3)
Propaganda (0-3)
Echoing Truth (0-4)
Annul (0-4)
*So my main deck may have a couple controversial inclusions and non-inclusions (mostly no Stifle and yes Jitte, I imagine may draw criticism)...
I'm mostly pretty happy with the main-deck though. In my mind really the only two cards I'm not 100% sure I want to use in the main that are in right now are Jitte and Relic. I was hoping some kind enlightened souls would give me some suggestions on that train-wreck of a sideboard decision-tree.
...Thanks for any suggestions/ constructive criticisms in advance. Cheers!
Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak
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