Annul, I guess
Originally Posted by manugl84
Against the decks that play plague, such as Eva Green and Black agro decks. It will generally turn things around. Nullifying creatures such as Confidant, Nantuko shade, birds, etc.
And the best part, you dont have to have it in hand when plague hits. And for those merfolk decks playing goyf....lol, islandwalking fatties are awesome.
Team Unicorn is too hetero for me.While this is close it's still wrong. Every one knows it's an orgy of unicorns.******s?
TeaM NOVA for life.
Enlighten me...
How can you affect this with Artificial Evolution? Where in the text is a specific creature type named? You can however, Stifle the CiP trigger. Hooray for Stifle again! Yes people, Stifle is that good.
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
Skeggi FTW. Seriously people, reeding is gud. So I'm a convert from Wu Angel Stompy to this deck, and while I've looked at the splashes, I can't honestly find any good motivation to play them. The fact is you play white for one card, swords to plowshares. Is it worth splashing in a deck with 6-8 nonbasics already just to get this? As for the green splash, you get goyf and that's all. Maybe he's that good, but maybe not.
I realize post-board these decks give you additional tools, but a lot of that can be dealt with through counters and bounce. Are people really finding the splashes *that* good? Also, has anyone tried black splash? Given that this deck rolls over to goblins, having 4x plague in the board seems like it'd be a big perk.
You can't stifle Engineered Plague unless you're cheating.Enlighten me...
How can you affect this with Artificial Evolution? Where in the text is a specific creature type named? You can however, Stifle the CiP trigger. Hooray for Stifle again! Yes people, Stifle is that good.
...Cheating because since 7th edition reprint, the text changed from a triggered ability to a static ability.
Oracle text: As Engineered Plague comes into play, choose a creature type.
All creatures of the chosen type get -1/-1.
Keyword being as.
they haunt minds...
In my testing I've found that Plague helps the mirror too. A double plague is pretty much game over for opponents not splashing for a color with real removval.
The E.P.I.C. Syndicate: I mean, if they play a lullaby for babies they should at least play the Monster Mash when somebody dies.
I think that the black splash has nothing to add maindeck besides removal (we have better in white) and maybe Tombstalker which is worse than Goyf because he cannot be "vialed" in and has double B. White offers the best removal and maybe a few good anti-aggro SB cards like Grunts or Anti-red stuff, Green offers Goyfs and Grips (against CB).
@Zach: U do not really play a B splash with EP SB for the mirror, now do you?
black gives us BOB just throwing that out there.
Run three color and win with your goyfs.
Yeah, and he's pretty near just as good if not better than Silvergill, outside of the whole nonmerfolk thingee.black gives us BOB just throwing that out there.
Right, umm, hurts you as much as them? Sure, goyf wins, but if you really want to destroy them, just run Llawan, Cephalid Empress. So mean...
As for black as a splash. You're entirely right, it's inferior to white and green for maindeck choices. However, if you want a chance against goblins, it's got hands down the best board choice. My point was more that the splashes seemed to be primarily aimed at rounding out the sideboard. Splashing a color for 1 card maindeck seems silly in general. Why not go for 0 and just look at what the board options are...
Do you think submerge could see play in the board of merfolk do to our worst match ups all run forests?
Play in respones to a sack land it becomes free removal, Idk Its going in my board fo sho.
No just the opposite is the case. Merfolks lack two thing no sideboard can remedy. Creature removal and guys that are big on their own. White cures the first, green the second.
I would never run a splash just for sideboard options.
Submerge is cute but not enough to matter (at least from my experience).
BOB is just another whimp in a pool of whimps that wait for their Lord to come. But wait ... BOB is not a Merfolk naaaa, I think he doesnt fit because what Merfolks need most is removal and coming second a beater that does not rely on others. BOB just finds more unrelevant cards that are neither the first nor the second and sometimes you need to handle what is on the table and not another counterspell. Probably I get lucky to draw double Force and kill myself. Hurray, I can dodge Fireblast!
12/12 Tramplers aren't big on their own?... Oh yea they need Stifle~
But seriously, Mono-U w/ Dreadnoughts helps mitigate the Tribal hate cards (Plagues / Clasm-esque effects). Spell Snares and a couple bounce effects help answer other problems (CB/Goyfs/Survivals; Humility/Moat/Plague respectively). Granted they don't offer the raw strength of something like Swords to Plowshares, Tarmogoyf or Krosan Grip, but I think for Merfolk they're functional and allow the deck to keep a high basic count, which in turn allows them to run hate on nonbasic decks.
I wouldn't say that I'd never run a splash for sb options, but in the case of Merfolk in the current meta, I don't think the additional colors add enough to warrant their inclusion (weakening the manabase; inability to maximize B2B).
TPDMC
Yepp it needs Stifle and all builds I tested were never consistent in a merfolk shell. Honestly the non-basic hate in form of B2B never was a big deal. It helps against one matchup which is Loam and thats about it (maybe now NLU/Baseruption). In my experience it doesnt slow other decks sufficiently to be a valuable inclusion especially considering I only played 2 SB in the past. B2B has been underwhelming all along.
Well, today I'm going to a small local tournament with Vial Merfolks. With my small metagame (Vial Goblins, Affinity, CounterTop, Counterslivers, DreadMerfolk, ANT and Canadian Thresh), I'm going with this deck and SB (note that I only have 2 Mutavaults and almost everyone plays with them so I can't put more, unfortunately):
Vial Merfolk
12 Island
4 Wasteland
2 Mutavault
4 Cursecatcher
2 Tidal Warrior
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejerey
2 Wake Thrasher
3 Standstill
4 Stifle
4 Daze
3 Echoing Truth
4 Force of Will
4 Aether Vial
Sideboard:
2 Hydroblast
2 Blue Elemental Blast
4 Annull
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte
And yes, my strategy is mainly mana denial. I tested almost every card for this deck and SB, like for example Vendilion Clique, Submerge, Back to Basics, Propaganda, Wipe Away, Mind Harness, etc. I just didn't tested Threads to Disloyalty because I don't have them and I forgot to borrow them from my friend, lol.
4 Annull seems to be a good choice in a small but competitive meta full of Tops, Vials, Dreadnoughts, Standstills, Counterbalance, Threads, Chalices, Jittes , etc., so I'll give them an opportunity this tournament.
Man, Tidal Warrior is pretty weak. With all the holes this deck has, you would think people would immediately see how to better fill those spots. I mean, Spell Snare or even another Standstill are easily better choices. or how about another Island? Anyway, I hope it goes well just the same. And I am really curious about the Chalices. Are you playing them for zero only, or could you really just not find anything better in blue for fighting combo than this card that takes out half your deck?
Also, you can stop talking about Confidant. He solves a problem this deck does not have.
BTW, what's with all the suck in this thread lately? I'm as guilty as anyone for not reading new cards carefully, but Engineered Plague is pretty common.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
I got 3-1-0 in 4 rounds, I lost to Vial Goblins. I know Tidal Warrior is very weak, but I managed to got 2 Lord of Atlantis in almost every match, and I only played 2 decks with blue. This small metagame is very diverse.
Chalice with 1 charge counter vs. Burn saved my butt. When I played it with 1 charge counter in 3rd round, 2 or 3 turns later she (yes, she, lol) conceded. I saw her hand and just saw a monstruous hand: 2 Chain Lightnings, 2 Lightning Bolts, 1 Figure of Destiny and 1 Fireblast. And she had only 1 Mountain (tapped) and 1 Mogg Fantastic (lol) in play.
And Chalice for zero prevents ANT to make half of the combo, and with 4 stifles MD...
First round I had fun because I played against... WU BIRDS! LOL but he told me that the deck wasn't complete because he couldn't get 4 aether vials, with almost bird being 1, 2 mana. The rest of the deck consisted in 4 FoW, 4 daze, counterspell, etc, basically Vial... Birds. LOL.
Second match I played Vial Goblins and I lost. I couldn't stand against Matron, Lackey and cº, lol. Second game I brought Hydro and Blue Blasts, but I mulligan'd to six and my hand was 2 forces, 1 island, 1 mutavault, 1 cursecatcher and 1 standstill. I played island, cursecatcher, he played mountain, lackey, I FoW'd. 2 turns later he played warchief, I FoW'd. Next turn another Warchief. WTF, I FoW'd again with the 3rd FoW I just bought. Next turn: ANOTHER WARCHIEF, WTF !
And thus I lost the game, lol. I couldn't stand against his horde, and he plays very well, he got 2nd.
3rd round, Burn, 1st game, I went down calmly to 5 life. She made a mistake, she played Lightning Bolt and I got it. 2 life. Sacrificed 2 mountains to Fireblast, BUT she sacrificed an untapped mountain lol.
There was a Cursecatcher in play. LOL.
Second game I brought 2 Chalice and 4 blasts, took off 4 Stifles, 1 Standstill and 1 Daze. Like I said before, I got Chalice for 1 and I won. Her hand was full of 1cc cards, except Fireblast. Yes, I knew her deck, almost every cards is 1cc LOL.
Last game, CounterTop. First game 2 lord of atlantis, 1 cursecatcher and 1 mutavault and he couldn't do nothing. He tried to FoW'd Vial but I dazed it LOL.
Second game included my favorite plays of the day. First turn he plays Strand. Ok. I played island and passed. EoT, he fetches and..... ouch, I stifled it. Ok. He plays a Delta. Lol, I play wasteland and vial. In response, he fetches but ... WTF I stifled again. Blue Land Destruction Hooray, how I love StifleNext turn, Tropical Island? Hey, I haaaave a Wasteland...
And then I played slowly until the final win.
I like this deck very much and I also think that Tidal Warrior is pretty damn weak, but my metagame is so diverse that Lord of Atlantis's islandwalk is becoming important.
Last edited by GrAsH; 05-17-2009 at 03:28 PM.
I went 50 today in a 73 player tournament today, eighth place.
It didn't start to well though.
Match 1: GoyfSligh
I fear this matchup. From my meta anaylsis I expected a lot of aggro decks and dedicated 2/3 of my sideboard to it. Well it didn't help
Game 1: It looks good. I have an early 3/4 Goyf but I am afraid to loose him in a block to an additional burn spell, so we trade some beats. Then I get another Goyf online but get hit by PoP for 6. The next round I force another PoP and have to eat another one for possible 8, so I waste one of my duals but a final Fireblast seals the game. That hurt.
Game 2: I sideboard everything I have against this matchup (10 cards except Grip and ET, Cursecatcher, Daze and Standstill have to go ... short reasoning. Cursecatcher is too weak in the matchup, Daze almost irrelevant because most of the speels Goyfsligh has cost 1, Standstill is too slow). But ... at the time Absolute Law hits play it is already to late. My opponent boarded more Burn and Fireblast, Bolts and Jets cause me a fiery death.
00
Match 2: Sliver Heap
Well, this kid just brought his casual GUw sliver deck over. I see Muscle Sliver, Gemhide Sliver and Quilled Sliver. He dies quickly both games: Goyfs plus Islandwalk is no good for little Slivers.
1
Match 3: NLU / Baseruption
Finally the matchups I am here for.
Game 1: On 5 live he just counterbalanced me out of the game. :( So I board Grip
Game 2: I get a nuts start and a horde of Folks stomp him to death
Game 3: This game is quite long and I do not remember much. I destroy CB two times with Grip, he wipes the board with EE once before I finally manage to overwhelm him with a lone 5/6 Goyf.
2
Match 4: MUC
This is my most challenging matchup today and was very verys close. I thought MUC would be a more easy matchup. Anyhow it wasnt.
Game 1: I hold a hand with Daze and double Force because I am not sure what he is playing. As he tries to go Brainstorm end of my turn I sense that he might be short on land and Daze successfully. He tries another Brainstorm next turn (he hadnt played a land) which I force, which he forces in return and I do the same. From there on He never comes back into the game and some folks kill him. I board 2 ET and 2 Grips. StP goes out.
Game 2: He gets an early Shackels which I cannot handle. I do not find a solution for it soon enough and this time he is not short on lands or card draw. Well, to make a quite long story short, Morphling put game 2 to an end.
Game 3: My longest match today. I manage to beat him to 6 before he stabelizes and gets rid off my Vial with repeal, counter. He lands a Shackles but I still have 2 Cursecatcher and a Lord of Atlantis. I manage to get him to 1 before a Sower steals another Folk. But I safed 2 ET for good and one resolves so I can deal exact 1 damage the next turn. Close, very close.
3
Match 5: Survival
Game 1: I play one Goyf, then a second, then win the game. Easy. He never finds enough lands to play a proper solution.
Game 2: I have a slow start and my opponent provides a steady flow of disruption and removal. Two Witness give him back 2 StP :/ At some point he resolves Deed, then Survival and has 6 Lands in play. From there on I go down slowly but surely.
Game 3: My opponenet has to take a mulligan and then is screwed on 3 lands. Goyf and one Lord kill him. Again easy.
4
Match 6: Progenitus / Survival Rock Variant.
Game 1: He plays three Noble Hierach, Vindicate, Goyf, Goyf, Kitchen Finks. I can handle both Goyfs (Force, StP) but I am low on lands. He can resolve a Survival, brings in a Elf from Portal Eidtion that can bring in fatties for tapping and viola I face a Cloudthresher first and then a Progenitus. Unfortunatly Cloudthresher steals me the missing LP so that an exalted Progenitus kills me. What a pitty I had 4 Folks out, 3 of them Lords. I board Grips for Daze for Game 2. With all that extra mana they seem useless.
Game 2: I get a good start and 4 Merfolk (2 Lords) + Mutavault are too fast for him. Nice action here: Although he could resolve a Goyf Rejeerey was able to tap him twice.
Game 3: See Game 1. My opponent boarded in 4 Snuff Out. Mhh well guess that helped and me talking my first Mulligan in the tourney so far. I lost.
4
Match 7: GoyfSligh
Ah not again I think after I see a Taiga Turn 1.
Game 1: But the Game should turnout completely different then I anticipated. He plays a Nacatl, I play Vial, he plays a Hellspark Elemental and beats me to 15. I play Cursecatcher, Lord next turn. He doesnt attack and I find it strange that he is out of burn already. Anyway the next turn he attacks and I vial in a 3/4 Goyf. He is stunned by the fact asking his neighbour if I am supposed to play such a critter in a Merfolk deck. Nacatl dies, the Burn spell on Goyf gets forced. haha that was FUN. My luck seems to hold and Goyf plus to Merfolks bring home the game. He really must have been out of Burn. Again I board 10 cards against Dazes, Standstills and Cursecatchers
Game 2: I force and StP both his early threats (Nacatl and Hellspark again). Then I play Goyf 1, followed by Jötun Grunt and Absolute Law what makes my opponent quite angry. More Folks with protection are joining the force and the game is over soon. Absolute Law is Absolute Wonderful ;)
5
Resume: I was absolutely happy with the deck today. Goyf gave the deck a strong beater that even being alone out there is a big threat. G provides access to grip which is MVP against CB decks. StP was OK and did its best. However I cant remember a really relevant play. Most of the times it was reserved for opposing Goyfs, hitting Hellspark of course is nice so it can not be unearthed. I never missed Stifle. I won two Goblin Lackeys so I can go play Goblins now ^^
My list:
// Lands
2 [MR] Island (1)
4 [TE] Wasteland
3 [MOR] Mutavault
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [A] Tropical Island
4 [B] Tundra
// Creatures
4 [U] Lord of Atlantis
4 [LRW] Merrow Reejerey
4 [LRW] Silvergill Adept
4 [SHM] Cursecatcher
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [OD] Standstill
3 [NE] Daze
3 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
4 [5E] Brainstorm
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [IA] Hydroblast
SB: 2 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 2 [6E] Warmth
SB: 2 [CS] Jotun Grunt
SB: 2 [US] Absolute Law
But if you play against a combo deck like, say, ANT, how will you counter Tendrils without Stifle? Ok, your metagame may don't have ANTs etc, but Stifle at least should be SB.
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