[Deck] Next Level Painter

[Serin]

Im gonna give this deck a shot also because my "weekend tournament" meta is like 6-8 DTB and then a lot of random things, from elves to standard decks, passing through burn, Life and many more...

[GoldenCid]

After some testing i wonder if CB is really needed. I have several problems against aggro decks, such as affinity. I think that constructing the combo as fdast as posible is needed is these match ups. I play a mono blue version similar to the posted above. I was thinking on - 2 CB +1 Fabricate + 1 Aether spellbomb (as mage toolbox helps as bouncer / draw). What do you think??

Mi sideboard includes:

3 Propaganda
3 Chill
2 Echoing truth
3 Tormod's crypt
3 Pithing needle
1 E. Explosives

Also, i think that 4 goblal tormod / needle is too much. But you tell me. Maybe, modifying side allows me keep CB main board.

[baghdadbob]

The sideboard is hard to say because I don't know your meta but your playing black... so engineered plague I heard is pretty good against goblins.

[GoldenCid]

Nobody has tested wasteland here??

[Enigma]

Hey this list was looking promising.. what happened to it? We never saw your last updated list jazzykat?!

P-M

[GoldenCid]

Here i post my decklist with i went 2nd (split in final) in a 28 players tounament. Suggestion and comments are welcomed:

// Lands
2 [TSP] Academy Ruins
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
7 [LRW] Island (3)
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
3 [TE] Wasteland
1 [MR] Seat of the Synod

// Creatures
4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
4 [FD] Trinket Mage
1 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought

// Spells
1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [TE] Grindstone
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [NE] Daze
1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
2 [5E] Hydroblast
2 [CS] Counterbalance
3 [SC] Stifle
2 [TSP] Trickbind
2 [4E] Blue Elemental Blast

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 2 [TE] Propaganda
SB: 3 [TE] Chill
SB: 2 [BOK] Threads of Disloyalty
SB: 3 [MM] Misdirection
SB: 1 [5E] Meekstone

[Dark_Cynic87]

Nobody has tested wasteland here??

Wasteland is normally not in lists with Counterbalance because of the mana requirement of UU. Most lands have blue if you are playing CB because the goal is to get one active asap.

@ GoldenCid: That list is nutz. You placed 2nd? Only thing I'm curious about is why not 4/1 instead of a 3/2 split on Stifle and Trickbind, respectively? The 2x CB is weird, but seems like the way to go with all the non-blue mana sources.

Pce,

--DC

[GoldenCid]

Wasteland is normally not in lists with Counterbalance because of the mana requirement of UU. Most lands have blue if you are playing CB because the goal is to get one active asap.

@ GoldenCid: That list is nutz. You placed 2nd? Only thing I'm curious about is why not 4/1 instead of a 3/2 split on Stifle and Trickbind, respectively? The 2x CB is weird, but seems like the way to go with all the non-blue mana sources.

Pce,

--DC

So...What would you run instead CB??

[Alfred]

So...What would you run instead CB??

You're misinterpreting him. He's saying that you shouldn't run Wastelands.

[GoldenCid]

You're misinterpreting him. He's saying that you shouldn't run Wastelands.

Why not? Wastelands helped me a lot. I know that they delay the UU for CB, but in some manner daze do the same (?). Beside, this isn't (at least my version) a CB - top based deck. So i consider CB as an extra tool for my control and not the base of it.

[Dembones]

Why name red with painter instead of blue?

Are the BeB's in the main because you run into alot of red decks in your meta?

Do you not run ReB's so you don't have to splash red, making you less vulnerable to non basic hate?

Just wondering.

Edit: I just realized Painter said "In addition to it's other colors." sorry.

[Dark_Cynic87]

Why not? Wastelands helped me a lot. I know that they delay the UU for CB, but in some manner daze do the same (?). Beside, this isn't (at least my version) a CB - top based deck. So i consider CB as an extra tool for my control and not the base of it.

Look at the Thresh lists. UGw Thresh runs CB, and as such no Wastelands. UGr Tempo Thrash runs Wastelands, Stifles, but no CB. This is because while the main goal of thresh is to get down a CB asap, and therefore wanting to make two land drops that both produce blue so you can Turn one drop Top, into a turn 2 active CB, Thrash is more of a tempo list, where stopping their land drops is more efficient of a game plan paired with Stifles to hit their fetches, wastes to throw at the lands that do get through, so you maintain your tempo while messing with theirs. You don't need the mana because you don't have the compact combo with Thrash.

That was probably a little unfocused, but I'm at work. Hopefully you can get the drift. CB and Wasteland are two different disruption strategies, and as such do more to hinder than help when you play them together.

Pce,

--DC

EDIT::: I think against Affinity you should have some mix of Rebuilds and Hurkyl's Recalls. I know your combo is all artifact, but it's cheaper for you to replay your stuff since they will have to redo their land drops. Throws off their tempo enough to get your combo through before they can recover. This will also make the stompy and stax matchups better IMO.

[GoldenCid]

Just a question on this line...would you cut CB for 1 additional dreadnought mainting the 4 -1 / 3-2 (stifle / trickbind)? or should i add another stifle / trickbind??

[Brushwagg]

Since the Epic Painter Thread is kinda dead here's the list I played this weekend and made top 4. Only 12 players but I went 4-0 but lost in Top 4 to Merfolk. I beat out Zombies, Goyf Sligh, TES, and Affinity.

My List: NL Epic Painter

3x Dark Confidant
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Painter's Servant
3x Grindstone
4x Brainstorm
3x Ponder
2x Fabricate
1x Lim-Dul's Vault
4x Force of Will
3x Daze
4x Counterbalance
3x Sensei's Diving Top
2x Vedalken Shackels
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Academy Ruins
4x Polluted Delta
2x Flooded Strand
4x Tropical Island
3x Underground Sea
4x Island
1x Swamp

//SB
3x Engineered Plague
3x Hydroblast
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Tormod's Crypt
3x Spell Snare
3x Krosan Grip

Over all I was happy with the deck. I tried to sneak 3x Smother in the deck but it messed with having a blue card in hand for FOW.

@Fabricate: Only cast it once but it was for Painter and the win. That's why it's there plus it can find Shackels also.

@Lim-Dul's Vault: This was almost Trinket Mage. But what it came down to was Vault can get you the win and Mage could only find Grindstone or E.E.. As I said before I never not liked having it in hand. If I had the room I would have played it as a 2 or 3 of.

@Daze: Well it did what I needed it to. The set back of a turn wasn't that big of deal. Having Goyf MD really changes how the deck plays. If I where to take the Goyfs out of the MD then Daze would leave also.

@

[gamegeek2]

Well, this is probably what I'll be playing at my next Legacy tourney:

4 Wooded Foothills
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Academy Ruins

4 Trinket Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Painter's Servant
2 Sower of Temptation

4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
3 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Grindstone
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Engineered Explosives

--- Sideboard ---
3 Firespout
3 Trygon Predator
3 Krosan Grip
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle

Any suggestions/comments?

[Ch@os]

Without a way to search painter you should not play 5x REB, or whats your meta?

Also Predator out of the board is pretty bad.

[GoldenCid]

Without a way to search painter you should not play 5x REB, or whats your meta?

Right! And why not run Phyrexian Dreadnought??

[gamegeek2]

One of the main sources of inspiration for this deck comes from a list with Dreadnoughts. However, that would require Stifle, which is poor against other CounterTop decks compared with Daze.

The Red Blasts also happen to be good against half the format. This deck doesn't need Painter's servant, I'd estimate it only kills with Painter half the time, give or take a bit.

My meta is chock full of blue decks. There's a fair amount of aggro, some control, almost no combo but a couple regular Ichorid players.

Dreadnoughts out of the sideboard actually sounds like a good plan. So, sideboard changes:

-2 Chalice
-4 Something
+4 Stifle
+2 Dreadnought

[GoldenCid]

So...one intermediate question. Does This deck NEED CB (without wastelands) or i can cut them for another thing and use wasteland??

[Brushwagg]

The nice thing about Counterbalance is it's "free protection" for your combo. Given you plan ahead a little. I'm not sure Wasteland totally fits in here or. Not saying a Tempo list couldn't work but it would be a totally different deck and would need it's own thread.

@Gamegeek2: If your set of REB effects I would move some to the SB and add in a way to find Painter. Also 4x Trinket Mages is over kill.

You could probably go:
-2 Mage
-2 REB

+2 Fabricate
+1 Grindstone
+1 Engineered Explosives