[Deck] UW(x) Landstill

[3duece]

ITF is funny to me because it's really just countertop thresh and a bunch of other synergies that never happen.

Anyone ever go up to four wasteland in this deck?

[Ch@os]

ITF is funny to me because it's really just countertop thresh and a bunch of other synergies that never happen.

yes, EE&Deed + recurring creatures never happen in ITF.

[3duece]

I mean, not to make this into an ITF thread or anything, but that stuff really doesn't happen as much as ITF players like to make it sound. That deck wins by countertop lock and goyf beats, pure and simple. It has a ton of awesome utility that it can't use under pressure without countertop lock because setting up and using the engines are clunky, fragile and expensive. And it doesn't run enough win conditions. Or card draw. Also, I don't care what the advocates say, I've extirpated tropical island against ITF before, and the deck just falls apart. Etched Oracle FTW? I don't think so.

[Mister Agent]

When playing against ITF I always find countering their intuitions to be a productive strategy. ITF can be a difficult deck to deal with if you let their intuitions resolve. Intuition is basically a strictly better version of Fact or fiction for them so you should counter it.

Also they can keep you under a pretty hard lock if they board in engineered plague(naming soldiers) while making just about all of your spells obsolete with countertop. Also vindicate can be minimal against ITF since alot of their spells are around the 3cc range.

[Citrus-God]

When playing against ITF I always find countering their intuitions to be a productive strategy. ITF can be a difficult deck to deal with if you let their intuitions resolve. Intuition is basically a strictly better version of Fact or fiction for them so you should counter it.

Also they can keep you under a pretty hard lock if they board in engineered plague(naming soldiers) while making just about all of your spells obsolete with countertop. Also vindicate can be minimal against ITF since alot of their spells are around the 3cc range.

So you play Cunning Wish and Fact or Fictions. Even Gearhart will admit that straight up card advantage is good against ITF if the control deck makes good use of the said card advantage.

[Mister Agent]

So you play Cunning Wish and Fact or Fictions. Even Gearhart will admit that straight up card advantage is good against ITF if the control deck makes good use of the said card advantage.

Good point, this is another reason why I think Cunning Wish should be put back into Landstill especially since alot of us still run Fact or Fiction.

[mossivo1986]

Good point, this is another reason why I think Cunning Wish should be put back into Landstill especially since alot of us still run Fact or Fiction.

SDT>FOF
All day long.

[Citrus-God]

So I tried building a version of Landstill with a positive Merfolk match-up and still maintaining a positive match up against the rest of the field, like NLU, Thresh, Aggro Loam, Goblins and Zoo. I will openly admit that I do not have any combo hate. Combo is our worst match up, and putting things in the sideboard just to prepare for a rarely played deck weakens a lot of our other match ups, especially against Threshold and other NLU variants.

So some conclusions to make before we go on to my decklist

- Wasteland > Dust Bowl + Tolaria West. Dust Bowl is good at destroying random crap like Academy Ruins and Volrath's Stronghold, but it can't allow you have a safe ticket to play Standstill early in the game. Wastelands destroy Mutavaults and make sure you can play that Standstill.

- Spell Snares should always go in the maindeck. Always. I don't need to explain this to you because the whole format is 2c. Zoo; NLU and Thresh; Aggro Loam; Survival. You should definitely be packing Spell Snares.

- Boarding in Enchantments against a deck boarding Krosan Grips against you is the best way to break even against decks like Thresh and NLU. You play Humility, EE, or even Runed Halo. Seems like enough, right? Definitely not. You only gain virtual card advantage against those decks until they find that Grip, but by boarding in those cards, they can just stockpile threats in their hand until they find a Grip. With 15+ shuffle effects and 4 SDTs, I highly doubt finding Krosan Grip is a problem. I personally think the best way to capitalize on boarding in Enchantments is play Elspeth when you have the game temporarily in your favor. Then again, playing Elspeth when the game is in your favor works anyway. My proposal? Of course, it's to just straight up trade 1-for-1 with those decks and just cast Elspeth and/or Fact or Fiction and dominate them. The only decks I will ever board Enchantments in against is Goblins and Merfolk, and that's because Engineered Plague actually kills creatures.

Anyways, onto the build:


// Mana 25
2 Eternal Dragon

3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
1 Academy Ruins
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
3 Plains
2 Island


// Spells 36
3 Brainstorm
3 Standstill
2 Fact or Fiction
3 Spell Snare
3 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
3 Cunning Wish
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Wrath of God
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Decree of Justice
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant


// Sideboard 15
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Spell Snare
1 Counterspell
1 Pulse of the Fields
1 Path to Exile
1 Return to Dust
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Extirpate
1 Tsabo's Decree
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Engineered Plague


Yes, I run a 4th Spell Snare and a 4th Counterspell as wish targets. Every game Landstill plays, it loses because of it's lack of flexibility. The best way to make up for it is by playing a toolbox. An actual toolbox. Every so often, you will board in that 4th Spell Snare, and that 4th Counterspell if you're playing against Aggro Loam or Landstill mirror.

Crucible of Worlds is amazing. You obviously board it in against Merfolk. Destroying Mutavaults and recovering your mana base is tech. Also, getting that Stifled fetchland back just so you can get a black source for Plague is very satisfying.

[NQN]

You tried to get a good game against meerfolk by making the manabase worse and the spells even more clunky? Wish, FoF, CS and DoJ are horrible cards against them and even Wrath isn´t really good(since they have LD+Scratcher+Daze). To make things even worse you cutted Brainstorm AND top, the two best cards available against fast strategies.
Sorry man, that looks like the worst try ever :/

EDIT: Ah, and that Wishboard sucks too. IF I ever play Wish (which rarely happens today) I´d go for 1 Pulse, 1 R2D,1 E.Tutor and MAYBE an Extirpate. To get a good Merrow matchup just go for 4 plagues 3-4 Path to Exiles and a GOOD maindeck. My worst result against those ******s was 1-1.

[3duece]

/\
a little harsh

I think the maindeck is good, you have dragons to keep the lands flowing. I actually just tested wish alot, including the merfolk match and found vindicate to be much, much better. This is the list I'm rolling with at the moment.

3 factory
3 wasteland
3 strand
3 delta
4 tundra
1 sea
1 scrubland
2 island
2 plains
1 swamp

4 brainstorm
3 standstill
2 top
2 fact of fiction
1 counterspell
4 spell snare
4 force of will

4 swords
4 vindicate
3 ee
2 wrath
2 decree
2 elspeth

[Mister Agent]

You tried to get a good game against meerfolk by making the manabase worse and the spells even more clunky? Wish, FoF, CS and DoJ are horrible cards against them and even Wrath isn´t really good(since they have LD+Scratcher+Daze). To make things even worse you cutted Brainstorm AND top, the two best cards available against fast strategies.

Why do you think he runs Eternal Dragon then? E. dragon is like the ultimate manafixer in UW(x) Landstill. Not to mention, Citrus also runs a handful of plains and islands as well.

In a more control oriented style of landstill, I'd rather run FoF over top because Top just filters cards and that doesn't really do that much when Pure Blue Control wants to draw as many cards as possible.

EDIT: Ah, and that Wishboard sucks too. IF I ever play Wish (which rarely happens today) I´d go for 1 Pulse, 1 R2D,1 E.Tutor and MAYBE an Extirpate. To get a good Merrow matchup just go for 4 plagues 3-4 Path to Exiles and a GOOD maindeck. My worst result against those ******s was 1-1.

I don't think E. tutor is really that great as a wishboard target since the maindeck runs alot of answers already and most of the time wishing for a better instant is the better call like Fact or Fiction or Path to Exile. It'll be better to wish for something that can immediately effect the board state or draw you cards.

His wishboard is quite similiar to what Konsultant ran and did well with so maybe the word "sucks" doesn't have any correlation whatsoever.

[Hitman82]

I agree with the above poster; Enlightened Tutor in the board is a horribly inefficient use of two tutors.

I've been thinking of cutting a Standstill for a Fact or Fiction. I've come to think that it's the worst card in the deck. Due to the nature of a control deck, you're often going to have an inferior board state in the early game and having Standstill in your hand is close to the worst possible card ever. I'd really only like to play one with a single Enlightened Tutor but I'm only cutting one right now for a Fact or Fiction.

Another idea I've being throwing around is cutting down to one Standstill and running two Cunning Wish.

What do all you Landstill players think of Standstill, in general? Obviously, it's good in certain situations but my question is whether it's good enough in general to warrant three mainboard slots.

[mossivo1986]

+1 NQN: Duesche bag comment of the day

I agree with the above poster; Enlightened Tutor in the board is a horribly inefficient use of two tutors.

You obviously haven't tutor'd for Humility/Top/ Standstill/ EE with wish-Tutor= Answer theory then. I'd consider testing it before you talked about it. Especially as tutor for humility is one of the strongest t4,5 plays landstill can make other then elspeth.

I've been thinking of cutting a Standstill for a Fact or Fiction.

Been there done that, jace was better and I tested FOF,Relic, Wish so I could get it back if I wanted to cast it again. That only ever happened like twice EVER. Jace is strictly better for the slot and the cc.

I've come to think that it's the worst card in the deck.  Due to the nature of a control deck, you're often going to have an inferior board state in the early game and having Standstill in your hand is close to the worst possible card ever.  I'd really only like to play one with a single Enlightened Tutor but I'm only cutting one right now for a Fact or Fiction.

Then your not playing enough spells in the early game. If your constantly finding yourself looking on the downside of a tempo game then you need to reconfigure your list.

Another idea I've being throwing around is cutting down to one Standstill and running two Cunning Wish.

3 Standstill, 2 wish is fine.

What do all you Landstill players think of Standstill, in general? Obviously, it's good in certain situations but my question is whether it's good enough in general to warrant three mainboard slots.

yes its good.

[rockout]

What do all you Landstill players think of Standstill, in general? Obviously, it's good in certain situations but my question is whether it's good enough in general to warrant three mainboard slots.

I can't tell you how many times I've gone, "oh you don't have a turn 1 play?" T2 standstill and ride the card advantage train to an easy victory.

Playing Standstill when you have 0 cards in hand and your opponent has 5+ keeps you in the game.

I don't even know why I am defending standstill. This thread kind of pisses me off sometimes because of stuff like the above quote.

Careful its sunny out there:

[Hitman82]

@ Mossivo - I didn't think of Jace. He actually sounds really good.

About Enlightened Tutor, I know how strong it is because I mainboard one with a Crucible, Moat and Vedalken Shackles. Wishing for an Enlightened Tutor is inefficient because you're usually doing that in a tribal matchup where you don't have the time. You're fighting through Wastelands, Stifles or Rishadan Ports while digging for a Wish to tutor for a one-of silver bullet.

@ Rockout - I promise I'm not trying to piss anyone off. It was a question. I thought forums were for answering questions. Sorry for ruining your day.

[Citrus-God]

You tried to get a good game against meerfolk by making the manabase worse and the spells even more clunky? Wish, FoF, CS and DoJ are horrible cards against them and even Wrath isn´t really good(since they have LD+Scratcher+Daze). To make things even worse you cut Brainstorm AND top, the two best cards available against fast strategies.
Sorry man, that looks like the worst try ever :/

I'm not the person running 6 fetchlands and getting Stifled all the time. I'm also not the person who cuts Lands. Ask Goblin_Snowman, my teammate. While playtesting, I thrashed him so hard, you have no idea.

Also, relying on EE sucks. Seriously, they just Stifle that shit. That's fucking stupid, just play fucking Wraths.

Also, their LD is tres pathetic. Stifle didn't do squat and Wastelands only ever hit my Factories, not the my lands. If they do, then I cast Standstill and draw into my lands again.

Wish, FoF, CS and DoJ serve their purpose really well. I've counted so many games where I just cycle DoJ, make surprise blockers and just kill off their entire army. If they cast Stifle, oh goodie, they suck at counter wars. I'll just counter that Stifle. Counterspell help me win counterwars and FoF just draws me cards.

EDIT: Ah, and that Wishboard sucks too. IF I ever play Wish (which rarely happens today) I´d go for 1 Pulse, 1 R2D,1 E.Tutor and MAYBE an Extirpate. To get a good Merrow matchup just go for 4 plagues 3-4 Path to Exiles and a GOOD maindeck. My worst result against those ******s was 1-1.

You obviously don't play with Wish very much, at all. In playtesting, I've only lost against them once during playtesting. It gets better when I board Plagues in against them.

[rockout]

@ Rockout - I promise I'm not trying to piss anyone off. It was a question. I thought forums were for answering questions. Sorry for ruining your day.

I agree that boards are for answering questions but when you ask why not run 1 standstill then that tells me that you haven't read any of this thread that has a lot of really good information in terms of mana base, the right numbers for each slot, and great sideboarding strategy that I wish everyone would read.

[Citrus-God]

I agree that boards are for answering questions but when you ask why not run 1 standstill then that tells me that you haven't read any of this thread that has a lot of really good information in terms of mana base, the right numbers for each slot, and great sideboarding strategy that I wish everyone would read.

Yeah, but the only people who ever actually read through this thread are Landstill players. Most players who come in just to skim and check out the latest builds are just people trying to metagame and such.

[rockout]

Yeah, but the only people who ever actually read through this thread are Landstill players. Most players who come in just to skim and check out the latest builds are just people trying to metagame and such.

Good for them. I hope they do. I want to whip my dick out and smack them in the face at my next tournament.

Careful its sunny out there:

[Berzerked]

Ok, so I've never played with Jace before, but since a lot of people are talking very highly of him I'm obviously going to start testing.
Question, though: are you guys speeding up the game by a turn each activation by giving him +1, or expecting just to draw 3 by giving him the -1? Or does it depend on the matchup, board position, what's in your hand, etc.?
I'm only asking because I just can't see wanting to have my opponent draw as well. Symmetrical effects are only good if your deck is better equipped to take advantage of said effect. Landstill isn't, as we can only play one land per turn anyway. Therefore it seems to me that decks that operate on a lower curve would gain too much from our own Jace.
Is this thinking correct? Let me know!