Taco, Seriously?
I AM going to test that, but it seems quite weird.
4 Warrenīs + 2 Gempalm + 2 Fanatics isnīt overkill?
Do you really need 4 Relicīs in the SB? With all that Removal? Fear Goyf much?
Regarding the argument againsīt Ichorid, what would you do? 12 cards from SB?
And other combo? Forgotten?
To me it looks that the deck is tuned to a heavy Zoo/Merfolk/Survival/Ichorid meta, but donīt see it going very well againsīt a whole of other MUīs, specially Goblins (MonoR and RG).
That said, going to test it.
PS: Have you tested a certain card that, in a deck with 8 acellerators may often be a 1B 5/3 Jester's Cap? It sure is working for me.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Oddly didn't like Explosives in testing today. I still got rolled by Zoo, and spending the 3 mana (Or 1 only to have it be eaten by Pridemage) wasn't all that great. Also, I never hit a plague with it. I think this might be because I kept playing it against Black decks, which kept either knocking it out of my hand or Hymn/Wastelanding me out of my 3-drop. I'll test further, but for now I'm backing out of that plan.
@Scatman: It's pretty versatile, actually. And I don't find 4 Weirding, 2 Fanatic, 2 Gempalm to be overkill. Goblins needs removal. It has to swing for the win with pound for pound the weakest threats in the format.
I've never liked Squad ever, but I'll probably test it in sideboard at this point. Frogtosser Banneret makes it more likely to succeed. I'm bouncing around between Squad, Tinkerer, and Auntie all as potential sideboard options. Narrow ones, admittedly, but at least they're Goblins.
I roll over to other Goblin decks fairly often, I admit. Game 1 is never good when you run Warren Weirding. That said, some Goblin decks aren't packing Mogg Fanatic and pack less than four Gempalms. These matchups I win fairly often, as they tend to have difficulties getting rid of Frogtosser Banneret. If My Frogtossers/Warchiefs live, I can pull game one out. Game two, Warren Weirding goes out for Pyrokinesis, and we try again.
As for Relic of Progenitus, it's not just for Tarmogoyf. It just happens to be the best choice against Tarmogoyf of the group. Relic's fantastic against a huge field, and I don't have a problem playing it in narrow situations, as the cantrip helps greatly negate the card spent. That said, I may cut down to 3.
Originally Posted by majikal
What exactly are Frogtossers good and bad against? I haven't had the time to test the Frogtosser version, but the goldfishing sessions seem good. Would a RBg Frogtosser build be stretching it?
I guess RBG with Bannerets and Weirdings MD and the G only for Krosan Grips in the SB would be fine. That was where I was (sans the Bannerets, had Fanatics in place of those) before I sold off the deck.
The Source: Your Source for "The Source: Your Source for..." cliche.
With 'auntie', taco, are you referring to wort or mad auntie?
I've tested mad auntie extensively, both main and side, and I must say I have been gravely disappointed with her. Sometimes she'd regenerate a goblin piledriver but often she'd just do nothing at all, except sitting back, pumping your matrons and lackeys and regenerating a 3/3 ringleader.
Pretty much the definition of a win-more card.
Hello friend.
First of all, I still think I'm going to stick to RG Goblins. Warren Weirding is terrible imo, I never liked it in testing and at least Stingscourger attacks and Gempalm finds lands, 2 for 1's or attacks.
For the sideboard I'm considering the following to replace Krosan Grip: Filigree Fracture
http://magiccards.info/cfx/en/82.html. It's going to take an awful lot of work to determine how often the split second of Grip is relevant so my question: How relevant has Split second been for you?
The only thing where you draw a card from Filigree Fracture is obv Counterbalance. But goblins just dont care about CB so i think KGrip is much better in this deck.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
yeah, and itīs kind of hard to determin if Split Second is all that good, since we don't get to see if the oponent had counters or not.
I guess that Grip is better. The card drwn doesen't make up for the fact that you MAY not kill a Phyrexian Dreadnought this turn...
@Ectoplasm,
He ment Mad Auntie. He hates Wort.
Interesting that in my tests, Mad Auntie have proven ifself to be preety good.
Guess that it may be good to some, and suck to others, depending on how you like to play the deck.
Taco, to imprive the goblin MU G1, try to squeeze 1 Sharpshooter main. I'm a great fan of that, and it works wonder for me, in lot's of MU's. In the others, you can just side them out.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
@ScatmanX: the reason I proposed Fracture in the first place is that Dreadnought is basically on a decline. This started when people began packing Sower of Temptations and Krosan Grip saw increasingly more play to answer the Dreadnought. If Dreadnought is a big portion of the metagame I would play Krosan Grip without a doubt.
That's just false, Engineered Plague is basically the reason we started putting Kro Grip in the SB in the first place. Also, against any deck that doesn't play blue Krosan Grip and Fracture are just as good. The question really is how relevant Split Second is, as the draw is obviously a bonus and denying that would be silly.
I'm not emotionally attached to Fracture or whatever and I don't care shit for being innovative, I just want the best deck, so if it turns out the split second was relevant I'll be the first one to admit Fracture is bad.
Split Second rarely matters. The only reason that I have been using Krosan Grip is because of fear of Pernicious Deed. In that case, it's still very difficult to pull off. I would suggest something like Hull Breach that costs less and occasionally pulls a two-for-one. Remember, the deck's main threat is any enchantment that is not Counterbalance. Hull Breach works great against Stax obviously, and it simply costs less against all the other decks with enchantments that don't have countermagic anyway.
As for combo hate, I draw the line after Leyline of the Void, which is my favorite. It buys enough time for you, and it doesn't wreck your tempo.
Yup you are right, forgot about Deed, Explosives and Jitte somehow. I guess that justifies Krosan Grip after all.
Sorry, but why is Grip better then Fracture agains't Deed? They hardly play it the turn it comes down so, why does it matter?
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Krosan Grip is better against blue decks playing artifacts and enchantments. This obviously means any kind of Moat, Humility, Dreadnough, CB, top, EE, Shackles. In the end, it's all about how many landstills or blue based (non-aggro) control decks are where you play.
Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.Deck
Current Record: 1-83-2
Okay, one topic at a time.
@Split Second: You have all lost your damn mind. Filigree Fracture? Are you kidding me?
The Split Second is relevant. It crushes Pernicious Deed. It crushes things like Humility or Plague in decks like Landstill, where a counter kills you. The number of situations where Grip is good is off the chart. Oh, and it hits Phyrexian Dreadnought against Dreadstill, too.
Secondly, if you aren't going to run Krosan Grip, run something good. Either go with a Tin-Street / Tranquil Domain split, or run Seal of Primordium, which at least costs less and can come down under Standstill, Counterbalance, and gives Black less time to knock it out of your hand with topdecked discard.
Everything and Nothing, in that order. The only time Frogtosser is ever bad is if you need it to be a specific other goblin worse. As I cut 1 Gempalm, 2 Fanatic, 1 Piledriver in my build for it, the only time I would call it bad is if I needed it to be one of those four worse.
RBG Frogtosser wouldn't be stretching it. I've been tinkering around with that actually. SB of Pyro, Grip, Relic, Duress/EE.
First, I meant Auntie. Scatman's right. I hate Wort.
Second, the point of Auntie is single and narrow and probably why I won't end up running it. It's the best thing I can come up with for RB to answer Plague without a black splash. That's it. Period. Duress is a worse answer, but Duress is at least good against both combo and control where Auntie's just a body that is occasionally useful against Deed or Pyroclasm.
@Scatman: Sharpshooter is my ultimate love-hate card. I find it harder to justify when I don't run as many Fanatics anymore, as Fanatic/Sharpshooter is just silly delicious. That said, I've wanted it against Stax and Enchantress recently for reach. So I may give it a try.
Anyone playing black splash should be playing Terminate, it is amazing. Yes I realize it's not a Goblin and Ringleadering into it sucks, so what? Turn 1 Lackey, Turn 2 Terminate whatever they got as a blocker, good game. It's better than Gempalm, Fanatic, Stingscourger, maybe better than Weirdings. True story.
I don't know about you, but getting RB on turn two in an environment with a lot of wastes/stifles (mine), especially when running 4 waste 3-4 port in RB or 4 waste and green stuff you need in RBG makes a turn two terminate somewhat unwieldy. Not to mention that has daze written all over it. StP does the same thing and for a single W which I think is somewhat easier to handle. And yes I know the next point will be that the black splash is superior but I wouldn't necessarily say that's true, especially when you end up running terminates over weirdings. I'll agree though that terminate is a good card in some metas.
Please, Terminate?!
T1 Lackey, T2 Weirdings does the same thing. It's tutorable. Has reduced cost with Warchief/Frogtosser in play. Goes to hand with Ringleader... Seriously, there is no reason to play Terminate instead of Weirdings.
That is so not True tory...
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
If I'm going to play non-goblin removal in RB, why should I play Terminate for 2 mana instead of Snuff Out for 0, or Pyrokinesis for 0?
Or, the better question, why not just play Warren Weirding? Also gets the Lackey through for 2, but the two can be Badlands/Wasteland in a pinch. Very often can be casted for 1. Can be Matroned. Can be Ringleadered. Hits Progenitus. Hits Argothian Enchantress. Hits Silver Knight. Etc. Weirding >> Terminate.
Let's say I have a hand that contains 2x Badlands, Mountain, 2x Frogtosser, Piledriver, some other card. The correct play would be turn 2 Piledriver, turn 3 double Frogtossers, right? In what scenarios must one of the Frogtossers be played turn 2?
I'm torn between Frogtosser and Fanatic, and the Ports have won me a few games in the past.
What cards should come out against BG Rock games 2/3?
EDIT: Also, does anyone have the time to make a primer for the Frogtosser build? :)
I was really bored and wanted to fuck with some one. I never said play Terminate over Weirding, I run 3 of each and it's awesome. Pyrokinesis isn't bad but 6 mana or 2 cards? I'll pass. Snuff out doesn't seem like a bad idea at all, but I don't own them so Terminate wins for now.
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