[Deck] TES - The EPIC Storm

[evilchen]

Yesterday i got my U-Sea and iam happy now to kick out Forbidden Ochad.. those Spirits were really messy..( cant understand how someone plays 3 :P )
For info iam playing
10 Lands:
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Undiscovered Paradise
1 U-sea

looks comfortable for me but iam going to test it on some tournaments the next month and will see how comfortable it really is.

[Pelikanudo]

I'm starting to play with 1 A.N which definately is the correct approach, also putting in the 4 mystical give us the full puzzle, also putting out cabal ritual is ok, becuase playing only 3 high costs(not 2nd A.N), this will reduce our average mana cost
:
Lands:
4x Gemstone Mine
4x City of b
2x U.Paradise
//10

Instants:
4x Brainstorm
4x Mystical Tutor
4x Dark Ritual
4x Orim's Chant
1x Chain of Vapor
1x Ad Nauseam // definately 1 is the key + 4 mystical
//18

Sorceries:
4x Burning Wish
4x Rite of Flame
3x Duress // 1 for burning
3x Infernal Tutor // 1 for burning
4x Ponder
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x IGG
//21

Artifacts:
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Petal
4x Chrome Mox

//12


SIDE :
at least 1 duress 1 infernal tutor

What do you think boys , and you Bryant .C.?

[evilchen]

I think i would be too afraid a random Thoughtseize or Duress etc. will hit my only AdN which i have in my starthand and cant use because i lost the dice roll.. or any scenario like that!

I feel better if i have at least the possibility to look for a second one with that Mystical Tutors.

[Bryant Cook]

As stated above, one Ad Nauseum just doesn't cut it. It's a storm engine that's great to draw, unlike Igg. You don't want it discarded or countered then not have another. I believe two is the best number you can play.

[Jeff Kruchkow]

Jeff, have you had problems with all those Forbidden Orchards? They hurt you very much when you don't manage/ can't afford to go off turn 1-2 (against blue decks for example), and those life points you "give" the opponent with the Spirits might matter a lor for Nauseam. Have you tried something else? perhaps few duals are acceptable, you could play decents lands entirely without losing that much color affidability.

Well for one, I don'town any duals. And yes the orchards do hurt but honestly I hate Undiscovered Paradise so much I won't run it. And I have tested duals, I would try and run them if I had them. Also, i run a very speed centric version so even when I play blue decks, I try and go for a belcher approach and go for the win after a protection spell (I have 12 post board, I should usually start with one)

@1maarten1: The reasoning behind duals is that they have no drawback unlike all the gold lands. Also, I have tried U. Paradise and its screwed me so much I would rather deal with spirit damage. And above that, I would rather run some duals when I get some, not that you can't run all gold lands, they just hurt a good deal.

[kicks_422]

Me and friend talked before about using this SB for TES:

4 Shattering Spree
4 Pyroblast
3 Empty the Warrens (1 in the MD)
1 Duress (3 in the MD)
1 Vindicate
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony

The rest of the SB is still up in the air, but the crucial thing about is the 4 EtW between the MD and SB. I haven't tested it yet much yet (and I don't know if my friend already has), but the basic premise is that against CounterTop decks, board in 4 Pyroblasts and 2 more EtW (for 3 in the MD, and 1 in the SB) for the 1 IGG, 1 Chrome Mox, and Ponders - and just go for the EtW rush early. The notion is that most CounterTop decks (aside from ITF, which has Deed MD), have no answers to an early token assault aside from potentially 1-2 Engineered Explosives.

Is this a plan worth pursuing?

[GreenOne]

Me and friend talked before about using this SB for TES:

4 Shattering Spree
4 Pyroblast
3 Empty the Warrens (1 in the MD)
1 Duress (3 in the MD)
1 Vindicate
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony

The rest of the SB is still up in the air, but the crucial thing about is the 4 EtW between the MD and SB. I haven't tested it yet much yet (and I don't know if my friend already has), but the basic premise is that against CounterTop decks, board in 4 Pyroblasts and 2 more EtW (for 3 in the MD, and 1 in the SB) for the 1 IGG, 1 Chrome Mox, and Ponders - and just go for the EtW rush early. The notion is that most CounterTop decks (aside from ITF, which has Deed MD), have no answers to an early token assault aside from potentially 1-2 Engineered Explosives.

Is this a plan worth pursuing?

That SB sucks: you absolutely need the Diminishing Returns and Grapeshot.

I tried for quite some time the ETW route against conterbalance and it's quite good, depending on what your opponent is SBing, and how much he does know you. It usually works wonders G2, but G3 more plagues / Pyroclasms / Propas come in.
Be careful when going the AN route, your deck post SB has a slightly higher average cmc.

I'd never side out ponders, I'd go with something like -1 Mox, -1 IGG, -1 IT, -1 Tendrils/AN, -X Brainstorm.

[Pulp_Fiction]

@kicks: I tried something very similar in the SB before and found out it wasn't so hot in my meta. It makes you vulnerable to Stifle a hell of a lot more and EE and Pyroclasm really fuck you up. This is what I would play if you wanted to use your plan against blue:

1x DReturns
1x Grapeshot
1x IGG
1x Tendrils
1x Shattering Spree
3x Empty the Warrens
4x Pyroblast
2x Slaughter Pact (Teeg is problem in my meta)
1x meta wish slot

Since you said 1 EtW is main I would personally board out 2x Ad Nauseam and stick in 2x EtW. I almost never want to cast AdN before turn 5-6 depending on how well you setup and late in the game its a dead draw. I guess my logic is, at any point in the game I would not be dissappointed seeing EtW where-as AdN will suck mid-late game and you are essentially going all in if you can't find adequate protection spells very early on.

[Tosh]

Small Tourney report:
I t8'd at the small (18 person) legacy side event at GP Seattle with TES. Only major differences in my list is that I took out Chants for +1 Duress and +3 Spell Snare (Reason: counterspells are pretty easy to get through... Counterbalance is not).
I played against: Burn: 2-1; ITF 1-2 (one loss was from a game loss for deck list); UWB landstill 1-2 (play mistakes ftl); BW Discard 2-1; Burn 2-1.
I lost in t8 to a friend playing ATS due to a major play mistake.

[Bryant Cook]

I came in 10th in a 132 person event. If you're interested...Report.

[kicks_422]

That SB sucks: you absolutely need the Diminishing Returns and Grapeshot.

I've never been lucky with Diminishing Returns. It's a personal choice, more than anything. And like I said, the only thing set in stone would be the Pyroblasts and extra EtW's.

Be careful when going the AN route, your deck post SB has a slightly higher average cmc.

Not really. With the SB plan I proposed, I only add a total of 4 to the total cc of the deck. With your SB plan, the total cc is actually less.

[GreenOne]

I came in 10th in a 132 person event. If you're interested...Report.

Seems like Pyroblasts were great all day, except against CB. How ironic.
However, Xantid would have been really worse, with all those AN played in the draw step.

Here are a few questions about the SB strategy:
1. Against Ichorid -4 Orim's Chant, -3 Duress, +4 Pyroblast, +2 Shattering Spree, +1 Echoing Truth. Aren't orim chants supposed to be good? Don't have LED Ichorid in my testing gauntlet, but against the LEDless one a single chant usually buys enough time to win.

2. General SB against blue: -1 Orim's Chant, -1 Chrome Mox, -1 Brainstorm, -1 Chain of Vapor, +4 Pyroblast. I don't get the -1 Orim's Chant: it's supposed to be the best card at least against non-CB decks. I'm almost always siding out IGG (usually for ETW), cause recurring counters doesn't seem good on paper. Amidoinitrong?

3. SB slots: Just a single use of Hurkyl's recall, and against Goblins. Is it really worth the slot? If I read it right it's also zero times that you wished for IT. Same question. Also, I happen to go the ETW route much more (well, you never played it), I suspect there's something suspect in this.

[Bryant Cook]

Seems like Pyroblasts were great all day, except against CB. How ironic.
However, Xantid would have been really worse, with all those AN played in the draw step.

Well I didn't draw them versus Counterbalance...

Here are a few questions about the SB strategy:
1. Against Ichorid -4 Orim's Chant, -3 Duress, +4 Pyroblast, +2 Shattering Spree, +1 Echoing Truth. Aren't orim chants supposed to be good? Don't have LED Ichorid in my testing gauntlet, but against the LEDless one a single chant usually buys enough time to win.

I'm aware that you can use Chant to timewalk but I'd rather have a possible counterspell for Breaththrough or Deep Analysis. That will buy you more time than one Orim's Chant. Plus, Pyroblast pitches a lot better on Chrome Mox. This is important for Shattering Spree if they're packing Chalice.

2. General SB against blue: -1 Orim's Chant, -1 Chrome Mox, -1 Brainstorm, -1 Chain of Vapor, +4 Pyroblast. I don't get the -1 Orim's Chant: it's supposed to be the best card at least against non-CB decks. I'm almost always siding out IGG (usually for ETW), cause recurring counters doesn't seem good on paper. Amidoinitrong?

Orim's Chant can be bad in multiples postboard when you have 11 protection spells. You only need one to resolve where Pyroblast can deal with more things than Chant. It's only one card, if you need Orim's Chant you can always just Mystical Tutor for one. I don't side out Ill-Gotten Gains, I'm against siding out storm engines. I've done it before then lost because situations come up where you need it.

3. SB slots: Just a single use of Hurkyl's recall, and against Goblins. Is it really worth the slot? If I read it right it's also zero times that you wished for IT. Same question. Also, I happen to go the ETW route much more (well, you never played it), I suspect there's something suspect in this.

Yes, it's worth the slot. This was just one event, I didn't play versus anything with heavy artifacts. Like Stompy Variants/Stax/affinity there was a decent number of affinity players there. I didn't ever need to wish for Infernal? I tried out the ETW package again and I didn't like it. The deck isn't meant to play like Belcher where you flop out your hand on the table turn one and if they have EE you lose. I'm not a fan of losing to a mind twist for 2 colorless.

[GreenOne]

Orim's Chant can be bad in multiples postboard when you have 11 protection spells. You only need one to resolve where Pyroblast can deal with more things than Chant. It's only one card, if you need Orim's Chant you can always just Mystical Tutor for one. I don't side out Ill-Gotten Gains, I'm against siding out storm engines. I've done it before then lost because situations come up where you need it.

Following this reasoning, why not siding out a duress instead of a chant against non-cb decks? With Duress you often can't take every counter they got between Spell Snare and Stifle they got too many. Chant just asks for "FoW or not?" and there you go. Is it for the high number of off color spells post board?

[Bryant Cook]

Following this reasoning, why not siding out a duress instead of a chant against non-cb decks? With Duress you often can't take every counter they got between Spell Snare and Stifle they got too many. Chant just asks for "FoW or not?" and there you go. Is it for the high number of off color spells post board?

I've never honestly thought about it. It'd probably be better to board out a Duress.

[Piceli89]

I've never honestly thought about it. It'd probably be better to board out a Duress.

LoL. Yes, i agree. I also think that against decks such as Ichorid, it would have been better A LOT to keep all the orim chants, and add +4 pyroblasts. The ability to stop then from a quick win or to prevent them by raping your hand in response to a Ichorid/narcomoeba trigger is too sweet to cut them.

Congratz for the result, Bryant. One question: how would you have sided if you had met heavy artifacts decks like Stompy ? I'm interested in it because in my meta it seems that stompy decks are going to rise a lot, and i think that 3 sprees +1 H.Recall should be enough. The point is: to leave 1 spree as a wish target or to board everything in? I noticed that in this tourney, you often boarded in all the hate avaiale against possible chalices without leaving options Sb for BWish. Is this supposed to be correct? I mean, leaving an answer sideboard, even if you slow yourself a lot, you can increase the possibilty of picking it. It's also true that you didn't meet a single chalice (piece of lucksack :P), but what if you'd have played against Stax/Dragon Stompy?

Also, after the tournament, which changes would you do ? which cards didn't satisfy you enough?
Uh, i noticed you got my advice of the volcanic island (and H.Recall). Glad for it, hope they were useful for ya.

[Bryant Cook]

There was one game where I wished Volcanic was an Underground. But... there were 2 postboard games where the Volcanic was huge when I had Pyroblasts in hand.

I like to board in +2 Spree, +1 Hurkyl's, +1 Echoing Truth against artifact decks. Taking out 4 Chant, I know you can stall them a turn with Chant. But I'd rather have an answer. If you wanted you could also board in the Duress over something else (Mox, Brainstorm). I like to leave Chain in to bounce Chalice at 0.

I would rather have a Pyroblast against Ichorid and stop them from comboing to begin with than to stop them for a turn mid combo.

[Piceli89]

There was one game where I wished Volcanic was an Underground. But... there were 2 postboard games where the Volcanic was huge when I had Pyroblasts in hand.

I like to board in +2 Spree, +1 Hurkyl's, +1 Echoing Truth against artifact decks. Taking out 4 Chant, I know you can stall them a turn with Chant. But I'd rather have an answer. If you wanted you could also board in the Duress over something else (Mox, Brainstorm). I like to leave Chain in to bounce Chalice at 0.

I would rather have a Pyroblast against Ichorid and stop them from comboing to begin with than to stop them for a turn mid combo.

Perhaps i didn't explain myself enough in the question: what i wanted to mean is that, against a possible Dragon Stompy MU, you side ALL you have against artifacts leaving no answers to be grabbed with burning wish? It seems a bit strange to me..

[Bryant Cook]

I'd rather not waste mana against a deck that wants to deny mana? You have mystical to search for the answers. There's a greater probability that you'll draw them if you board them all in. You don't need a wish answer post board if you have a greater chance of drawing them.

[Piceli89]

I'd rather not waste mana against a deck that wants to deny mana? You have mystical to search for the answers. There's a greater probability that you'll draw them if you board them all in. You don't need a wish answer post board if you have a greater chance of drawing them.

therefore, isn't it a clever thing to side out a few Wishes (say, 1-2), since at this point the only thing they can grab for you is kill or storm engine?