[Deck] Dredge

[GoldenCid]

Has anybody seriously tested Greater gargadon instead of needle?? Any results??

[sunshine]

Has anybody seriously tested Greater gargadon instead of needle?? Any results??

I ran a 3/2 split of Gargadon/Needle at the Vestal tourney. I played against exactly zero decks running StP and had not one sweeper cast against me - so I did not get to see its full usefulness. They were interesting but awkward at times (sided in against Goblins, Aggro Loam, and Burn). There were also times where I wished that I had all four Needles instead but that's just how my matchups fell.

Too bad you can't sac enchantments to Gargadon. There was one game where I needed to get a Bridge in my yard and had one in hand with no discard outlet, I had three black mana on the board with a suspended Gargadon - sad face.

[Joe_C]

Has anybody seriously tested Greater gargadon instead of needle?? Any results??

I also played with gargadon in my board at Vestal. I did dread return 1 into play which would have ended the game if my opponent didnt topdeck STP. I did get a suspended one into play and got it down to 3 counters on it before I won. In a way its almost like a "ticking clock" for your opponent. They know that if they target all your stuff, you will just sac it to gargadon, which slows them down, which means you should win. Protecting Ichorid from STP is probably the best use Gargadon has.

[GoldenCid]

Protecting Ichorid from STP is probably the best use Gargadon has.

Indeed?? So you side gargadon against landstill and threahhold beside burn and goblins??

[jimirynk]

Don't you already have a good game vs landstill and thresh?

[Joe_C]

Indeed?? So you side gargadon against landstill and threahhold beside burn and goblins??

Of course. Threshold and landstill both run engineered explosives for the most part and swords to plowshares. Wastelands are also quite common to see in landstill, and having something to do with a land that would go to the grave anyways is better than nothing. Gargadon is feeling really good to me so far.....

[jimirynk]

Indeed?? So you side gargadon against landstill and threahhold beside burn and goblins??

Don't you already have a good game vs landstill and thresh?

[Xero]

This deck gets some help from the rule changes following M10. LED can be cracked to empty your hand with no draw back. Mogg Fanatic and Qasali Pridemage are less likely to be played because of the changes to the combat step, and Storm Combo decks get slightly worse as they can no longer float LED mana. Yeah, I think LED Ichorid is clearly the biggest winner from these rule changes.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

However, the new combat rules weaken Greater Gargadon. No longer can you run an Ichorid into something to take it out and sacrifice.

[GoldenCid]

However, the new combat rules weaken Greater Gargadon. No longer can you run an Ichorid into something to take it out and sacrifice.

Do you think so?? I still think that gargadon is very useful...

[dlevsApiJ]

But most of the times you will have Bridge('s) in your grave, so you already wanted to sac your Ichorid before it does combat damage..

I'm playing this list;

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
3 [OD] Cephalid Coliseum
3 [AN] City of Brass
4 [JGC] Gemstone Mine
1 [VI] Undiscovered Paradise

// Creatures
4 [DDC] Stinkweed Imp
4 [TO] Putrid Imp
1 [RAV] Flame-Kin Zealot
1 [FD] Eternal Witness
4 [FUT] Narcomoeba
4 [TO] Ichorid
4 [RAV] Golgari Grave-Troll
3 [RAV] Golgari Thug

// Spells
4 [FUT] Bridge from Below
4 [TO] Breakthrough
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [FNM] Cabal Therapy
2 [TSP] Dread Return
2 [FNM] Deep Analysis
3 [MM] Unmask
1 [ON] Chain of Vapor

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [MM] Unmask
SB: 3 [ON] Chain of Vapor
SB: 4 [WL] Firestorm
SB: 1 [10E] Ancestor's Chosen
SB: 1 [LRW] Wispmare
SB: 1 [JU] Ray of Revelation
SB: 4 [TSP] Greater Gargadon

I'm testing 1 Chain of Vapor main instead of the Firestorm Parcher plays.
At the moment, i'm playing an MWS-tourney and when I finish it, I will post my results with this list. 'Till now, I'm very happy with it .

(ps. I play Ichorid for quite a while now, but mostly in the time when we played Sage over Witness and card x (me: Careful Study) over Unmask. Because I stopped playing MTG for a while, these newer lists are quite new for me, and I've to get used with playing the Gargadon "optimal".)

[Parcher]

As far as the rules changes, they aid Ichorid through the weakening of other decks. Any "sacrifice" creature becomes potentially worse, while Fanatic becomes definitively worse. The uses of Gargadon are rarely lessened since you will most often have to sac your creatures before damage is dealt to save Bridges anyway.

The LED matter is largely irrelevant since three life is rarely within the bounds of actual game result determination if you actually get to effectively use an LED.

And speaking as one who has had both Team America and DreadStill decks Stifle Deathtouch from a Stinkweed that would have lost them the game, I am happy for at least that change.

[Tacosnape]

As far as the rules changes, they aid Ichorid through the weakening of other decks. Any "sacrifice" creature becomes potentially worse, while Fanatic becomes definitively worse. The uses of Gargadon are rarely lessened since you will most often have to sac your creatures before damage is dealt to save Bridges anyway.

The LED matter is largely irrelevant since three life is rarely within the bounds of actual game result determination if you actually get to effectively use an LED.

And speaking as one who has had both Team America and DreadStill decks Stifle Deathtouch from a Stinkweed that would have lost them the game, I am happy for at least that change.

Agreed. I had the same thought. Fanatic going away will be fantastic for Ichorid (Also for my Survival deck.)

[1maarten1]

i like the list from the opening post, but i always used to run a fatty MD. Is there still place for that? Plz dont ask my why i want it lol
If yea: what to remove?

Thanks, maarten

[lolosoon]

i like the list from the opening post, but i always used to run a fatty MD. Is there still place for that? Plz dont ask my why i want it lol
If yea: what to remove?

You already have 4 fatties packed in your standard Ichorid Decklist : Golgari Grave Troll.

You don't need additionnal fat. The slots are tight, and Unmask is more valuable than a mere beater imho.

[dlevsApiJ]

i like the list from the opening post, but i always used to run a fatty MD. Is there still place for that? Plz dont ask my why i want it lol
If yea: what to remove?

Thanks, maarten

There is one free slot I think. In my last posted list it's the Chain of Vapor slot (and in Parcher's list from the opening post, its automatically the Firestorm). So of you want to waste that single free-slot to a MD fattie, please do so (yeah, really, it's a waste of the slot and not even slightly good.. you're better of playing some other card in that space (like chain of Vapor, Firestorm or the 4rd Unmask).

I'm really happy with the Greater Gargadon after all my testing games. Go go Parcher for inventing it ! I really don't want to go back to the Needles.

[Tacosnape]

I'm running the fourth Thug in place of the flex slot (Unmask #4/Firestorm #1/Chain of Vapor #1). Having a dredger at all times is so imperative, and he's also Unmask/Ichorid fodder. He's been doing good for me so far. I'll still try out some of the other ideas though. I'll test this a lot in the upcoming week in Panama City with lots of alcohol, and drunk beach testing results mean more than ordinary results, so there you go.

[GoldenCid]

You don't need additionnal fat. The slots are tight, and Unmask is more valuable than a mere beater imho.

+1.

I see that gargadon is a good boy...i'll try it.

[mattbrownsound]

And speaking as one who has had both Team America and DreadStill decks Stifle Deathtouch from a Stinkweed that would have lost them the game, I am happy for at least that change.

Despite its ability being essentially equivalent to Deathtouch, Stinkweed Imp does not actually have Deathtouch. Unfortunately, this means that it will continue to be a triggered ability and thus remain Stifle-able.

[GoldenCid]

Despite its ability being essentially equivalent to Deathtouch, Stinkweed Imp does not actually have Deathtouch. Unfortunately, this means that it will continue to be a triggered ability and thus remain Stifle-able.

The fact is that rules changes will not significantly affect ichorid deck working...just that.