[Deck] Non-LED Based Dredge/Ichorid Combo

[Ssbm Rocks1]

Here's my list:

4 Putrid Imp
3 Tireless Tribe
4 Grave-Troll
3 Thug
4 Stinkweed imp
4 Narcomoeba
3 Ichorid
2 Cephalid sage
1 FKZ

4 Bridge from Below
3 Breakthrough
3 Dread Return
3 Cabal therapy
4 Careful Study

4 Gemstone mine
4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum
3 Tarnisher Citadel

I don't have a SB yet. They don't have tournaments near by, but there are other players with 43 Land, UGR Tempo Thresh, ANT, Full English Breakfast, and a few others. What SB cards would help these matchups? Also, what changes should be made to the main?

[jimirynk]

Here's my list:

4 Putrid Imp
3 Tireless Tribe
4 Grave-Troll
3 Thug
4 Stinkweed imp
4 Narcomoeba
3 Ichorid
2 Cephalid sage
1 FKZ

4 Bridge from Below
3 Breakthrough
3 Dread Return
3 Cabal therapy
4 Careful Study

4 Gemstone mine
4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum
3 Tarnisher Citadel

I don't have a SB yet. They don't have tournaments near by, but there are other players with 43 Land, UGR Tempo Thresh, ANT, Full English Breakfast, and a few others. What SB cards would help these matchups? Also, what changes should be made to the main?

If Ant and FeB are in your meta I would suggest cutting the citadel from 3 down to 1, play 2 undiscovered paradise and 1 citadel.

Side board..
Vs Ant. We have Chalice/Unmask/Leyline/Null rod/Ancestors chosen.

Vs FeB. We have Unmask/leyline/CoV.

Vs tempo thresh?? ancestor chosen(not that hard of a MU).

Vs 43 lands Leyline/needle/platinum angel/woodfall primus/angel of despair.

[bum_man]

My sideboard currently is:
3 Pithing Needle
3 Cov
3 Wispmare
3 Firestorm
1 Ray of Revelation
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Ancestor's Chosen

I try to make my sideboard very well rounded because the metagame where I play is very random. In one tournament red burn was everywhere, then the next tournament goblins were rampant, after that blue-based aggro control became rampant, the following tournament was full of black-based disruption, the most recent tournament saw non-dredge combo decks showed-up. Firestorm has been good in testing but never manage to side them in because I lack slots to do so, or may be its just my sideboarding plan.

@Joe_C: What is your sideboard plan vs decks you use Firestorm?

[Joe_C]

@Joe_C: What is your sideboard plan vs decks you use Firestorm?

I take out the combo usually since they are more likely able to remove bridges and go for the slow dredge game plan. Since I run 3 breakthrough and 3 Dread return, I do -1 breakthrough,-1 sage,-1 return,-1 flamekin +4 Firestorm..

[bum_man]

@Joe_C: You no longer side-in anti-hate?? My problem is not having enough slots because anti-hate cards take the 4 default slots. I tried -3 Breakthrough, -1 Sage, -1 Dread Return, -1 FKZ, -1 tribe for 3 Needles, 3 Firestorms and Chosen. I was still able to grind it out but its relatively a so-so performance.

[Joe_C]

@Joe_C: You no longer side-in anti-hate?? My problem is not having enough slots because anti-hate cards take the 4 default slots. I tried -3 Breakthrough, -1 Sage, -1 Dread Return, -1 FKZ, -1 tribe for 3 Needles, 3 Firestorms and Chosen. I was still able to grind it out but its relatively a so-so performance.

I thought you were just referring to what I took out just for firestorms:my bad. -1 thug, -1 tribe, -2 breakthrough,1 return for ancient grudge x4 or wispmare/chain mix, and ancestor's chosen ..My board currently:

4 Firestorm
3 Wispmare
3 Chain of Vapor
4 Ancient Grudge
1 Ancestor's chosen

[bum_man]

@Joe_C: Oh I see, you don't side-in Firestorms along with anti-hate at the same time. Right now, I'm at 2 firestorms, I might take them out for 2 more Ancient Grudges making it 3/3 with Needles. I haven't actually tested them alot since I've been busy handling hate and i can't seem to find slots to use both the firestorms and anti-hate at the same time. X____X

I might be playing in a tournament tommorrow, and i'm expecting a wide variety of decks ranging from burn, to various thresh, affinity, landstill, loam, faeries, merfolk and NLU.

My sb is currently:

3 Needle (I don't have a 4th yet, i like a more preventive than reactive answer to crypt and relic)
3 Chain of Vapor (for random stuff)
3 Wispmare (I don't expect leyline but i do expect propaganda effects)
2 Ancient Grudge (i expect naughts in all blue decks)
2 Firestorm (I run 3 md darkblasts)
1 Ancestor's Chosen (Not really sure about this, blue match-ups probably)
1 Inkwell Leviathan (Blue or any other anti-blue tech)

I have never liked diluting the combo very much so I alot 4-5 slots regularly post-board all for anti-hate, a 6th slot is available in FKZ but i dislike siding him out since he is what gives this deck that additional push plus works wonders with Reveillark.

Comments, suggestions, reactions are welcome. hoping for a good finish later.

[Joe_C]

@bumman: since you run darkblast, maybe firestorm isnt needed for you as spot creature removal, although firestorm is an amazing sweeper and an uncounterable discard outlet. The damage it can deal to your opponent has come in handy several times as well.

[jimirynk]

Who else is stoked on the rule changes????

Combat Damage no longer uses the Stack. Fuck you mogg fanatic it was nice seeing you in legacy.

Heelllllloooooooooo bridges not getting remove vs. red decks.

1. Upkeep LED/Draw step Ad Nauseam is not possible.
2. Can't wish for things rfg.
Hello worst match up getting nurfed.

1. Upkeep LED/draw step dredge/ active coliseum after hitting threshold is not possible.

Hello 2nd worst match up getting nurfed.

M10 life is good right now.

[eq.firemind]

Hi people!

I have a friend that plays NODredge (he calls it Brotherhood of NOD)
I found myself constantly beating him with my Death and Taxes deck. I know M10 combat rules hit DnT worst of all decks, but I will play it anyway.
I want to ask how should my buddy side against me?
Well, he 85 % wins G1.

But G2 and 3 he meets:
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Children of Korlis (my antistorm card 'cause I don't own Chants right now)
4 Jotun Grunt
2 Samurai of the Pail Curtain
3 Stonecloacker
4 Swords to Plowshares
I have 6 turn 1 drops to RFG his bridges, so his chances to win fast are not brilliant. And the longer we play, the better hate hits the table.
Firestorm is not a solution here 'cause Burrenton > Firestorm.

I told him that he should run some Dark Blasts maindeck and more Chains of Vapor in side (he runs 1 at the moment). Am I right?

[1maarten1]

Hi people!

I have a friend that plays NODredge (he calls it Brotherhood of NOD)
I found myself constantly beating him with my Death and Taxes deck. I know M10 combat rules hit DnT worst of all decks, but I will play it anyway.
I want to ask how should my buddy side against me?
Well, he 85 % wins G1.

But G2 and 3 he meets:
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Children of Korlis (my antistorm card 'cause I don't own Chants right now)
4 Jotun Grunt
2 Samurai of the Pail Curtain
3 Stonecloacker
4 Swords to Plowshares
I have 6 turn 1 drops to RFG his bridges, so his chances to win fast are not brilliant. And the longer we play, the better hate hits the table.
Firestorm is not a solution here 'cause Burrenton > Firestorm.

I told him that he should run some Dark Blasts maindeck and more Chains of Vapor in side (he runs 1 at the moment). Am I right?

I think darkblasts are more of an personal choice, but you definately should run 4 CoV side. I dont run darkblasts, i did run 1 but now with fanatic nerfed he will see less play so i cut it.

Maarten

[Maëlig]

I told him that he should run some Dark Blasts maindeck and more Chains of Vapor in side (he runs 1 at the moment). Am I right?

A combination of dark blast (to take care of BFT) and firestorm (the rest, especially SotPC which hits icho quite hard). Firestorm is really quite good against D&T, if it wasn't for BFT.

I'm not sure I'd tweak my SB specifically to beat D&T though, it's a pretty random MU.

[bum_man]

Just got back from the tournament. I finished 3-1 (6-2 games) to place 4th. I lost my opening round 0-2 because of bad mulligans, was able to get back on track by winning the next 3 rounds 2-0. 2nd to 4th place were all 3-1, it's just that the 2nd place guy beat the 3rd place guy who was the guy that i lost to in my 1st round:

Decklist:
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mines
4 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Tarnished Citadel
1 Undiscovered Paradise

3 Breakthrough
3 Dread Return
4 Careful Study
4 Cabal Therapy

4 Bridge From Below

3 Darkblast

1 Flame-Kin Zealot
1 Cephalid Sage
1 Reveillark
3 Tireless Tribe
3 Ichorid
4 Putrid Imp
4 Narcomoeba
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp

Sideboard:
3 Pithing Needle
3 Chain of Vapor
3 Wispmare
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Firestorm
1 Ancestor's Chosen
1 Inkwell Leviathan

Here's my report: (Some details are sketchy)

Round 1: Bant Aggro (Loss)
Game 1: Mull'd to 3 still no land and no dredgers, a 7/7 knight of reliquary with double strike sealed the game for him.

Game 2: Sided in 3 Covs and 2 Needles for 3 breakthrough at return and lark. I was able to get a decent hand but he was able to get two propaganda in play before i get my graveyard into critical mass. I had one chain in hand then he was able to grow 3 knight of reliquaries to 17/17 along with a 4/5 tarmogoyf against my 2 Stinkweed Imps.


Round 2: Rock (Win)
Game 1: I get a great hand with an PImp, breakthrough, study, SImp, 2 lands, and something else. I Dredge 2 Bridges with Study which was killed by his STE, my breakthrough brought out two more Bridges that was lethal.

Game 2: I sided in 3 CoV and 1 Needle for 1 breakthrough, 1 study, a return and sage. Turns out he doesn't have the right sb with him. A repeat of Game 1 happened.


Round 3: Aggro Loam (Win)
Game 1: Had a great hand, i was able to dredge of study then when i declared breakthrough, he scooped.

Game 2: Boarded in 2 Grudges and 2 Covs for 1 breakthrough, 1 study, 1 return and 1 reveillark. He goes land done, then I therapy him for goyf (misplay), I saw CotV which he casts at 1 after. I should've played my tribe first, i top deck a grudge the following turn, i therapy him for jund charm which i hit one. I was able to combo-off a turn or two after.


Round 4: Madness (Win)
Game 1: I win the die roll, I keep a hand with 2 Breakthrough, 2 Coliseum, 1 GGT, 1 tribe, 1 Ichorid. I Breakthrough for 1 which he countered with circular logic, the following turn i drew into study into SImp and Bridge, Discarding the two Dredgers into Breakthrough into critical mass.

Game 2: I keep a hand of CoB, Coliseum, 2 Needles, tribe, Undiscovered Paradise, Narcomoeba. He starts of with basking rootwalla and crypt. I draw PImp. I play Coliseum into needle which he forced. He casts a mongrel, swing with rootwalla. I draw study, Then play CoB into Tribe then Needle on crypt. he casts a thought courier then swing with both creatures. I draw GGT. I cast Narcomoeba then Paradise into Study into GGT into SImp. He then thought couriered out an arrogant wurm, then he swings. I bring back two ichorids then coliseum and dredge on draw. There was 1 Bridge in the yard and no FKZ yet so I Sage into the win with FKZ the 56th card in my library.

Observations:
-Firestorm and Chosen sat on my sb the whole time.
-Grudge is great, my current 3/2 feels fine but im going to get my 4th in a few days so that may have to change into 4/2 or 4/1.
-Reveillark was sub-par. I never returned it once today, basically because i didn't go up against the match-ups where it was supposed to be used for, but over-all i didn't wish it was something else. With the new rules changes, fanatics and the like are slowly becoming less prevalent, could this mean a less effective Reveillark?
-Darkblast wasn't that relevant but i hadn't wished it was a thug though, i really like the utility of md blasts over thugs. All my wins are through the combo so I wasn't able to assess my aggro plan that much, it seems solid in theory so far though.
-The deck was really solid as it should be except for the bad mulligans which is really the worst that could happen.

Over-all, I liked how the deck and my sb played out. I could be playing the list above in a few other tournaments coming up and hopefully it does as well if not better than it did today.

Comments and reactions are welcome.

[jimirynk]

ONce m10 comes out lark won't be needed.

[1maarten1]

ONce m10 comes out lark won't be needed.

Explain pls

@ Bum Man
Congratz on the finish! How was 3 DB for you? I think firestorm is more of an meta game choice, in my meta theres ALOT of merfolk and zoo so i'm finding it awesome but i can understand with those matches it just sits in your board.

Maarten

[bum_man]

@ Bum Man
Congratz on the finish! How was 3 DB for you? I think firestorm is more of an meta game choice, in my meta theres ALOT of merfolk and zoo so i'm finding it awesome but i can understand with those matches it just sits in your board.

Maarten

The darkblasts are out of playing preference. Its something I want to have in the opening grip because it deals with creatures that kill your bridges like mogg fanatic, cursecatcher, burrenton forge-tender, etc. It also deals with jailer, bob and other small creatures that can be to your advantage. These creatures are very common where I play and I don't like the idea of going to your sideboard to handle the creatures above, especially the bridge killers which can even cause you to lose pre-board games. Darkblast answers all these creatures and a dredger all in one card. The one card difference between blast and thug is negligible most of the time and the ichorid fodder function of thug is also negligible since I try to combo-out most of the time. I've tried playing with thugs and blasts, I noticed that there are more times that I wished a thug was a darkblast than the times I wished a darkblast was a thug. I tried playing both and it made the deck inconsistent so I trashed that idea. The utility that darkblast brings to the deck is something I really like. Just blast their bridge killer then win.


Firestorm wasn't part of my sb actually. I just put them in this tournament because there are 2-3 merfolk that played in the area where the tournaments was held. Zoo and Merfolk are actually the decks I was thinking on using firestorm mainly but i wasn't able to play against them in the tournament. On a sidenote, the champ of the tournament was a 4-0 Merfolk that came in late after the pairings where made, there was a guy that had a bye then, that is why he was still allowed to join in despite being late. Back to Firestorm, the thing is, the deck doesn't really need a board sweeper/spot removal against these match-ups because since it can win with the combo before the opponent does once it is able to handle the hate and the bridge killers. What i basically want is to stop them from stopping me from winning thus handling hate with needle and the bridge killers with blasts. The most obvious function I see in Firestorm is delaying their clock so I have more time to pull the combo off.

Explain pls

I also use Reveillark so I can somehow shed some light on this. Reveillark is just like darkblast in my deck because it gives me a way to handle bridge killers. Bridging out at least 6 3/3 hasted zombies to win is not that easy to do against a deck with 1 or 2 bridge killing creature (fanatic, cursecathcer, BFT, etc.) in play. In case you are not able to handle these creatures (via DBlast in my list) you can just dredge hella lot then return lark then kill him bringing back a Big GGT and FKZ (or GGTs that are lethal on their own) to swing for the win. I've actually managed to do this once or twice for lethal despite me not having possibly 3 more creatures in thug. This is one of the cases where having blast in place of thug is negligible while having thug instead of blast is bad. With the new rules changes, fanatics, goblin legionnaires and other sac-able creatures can no longer do stacked damage combat tricks like they used to. These tricks give tempo advantage, and this is what makes them very effective creatures at what they do. The new damage no longer stacks rule makes these creatures less effective, they are actually being dropped from lists all-over because of this. The loss of these bridge killers somehow makes the reason why Reveillark is in the deck less relevant thus making his slot not as optimal as it was, this may cause lark to be replaced by the 2nd sage just like in older lists.

[jimirynk]

Explain pls


Maarten

Mogg fanatic won't be as relevant in the format.

[jimirynk]

The one card difference between blast and thug is negligible most of the time and the ichorid fodder function of thug is also negligible since I try to combo-out most of the time.

Thug can make the deck do crazy thing.
I have won to many games from casting thug and sacing to DR or therapy putting a narco on top or a putrid imp to get the dredges out of my hand if I don't have enough of one to justify therapy myself.

Plus thug allows you to win with 0 cards in your library allows you to put a thug on top and then next turn draw play sac put thug on top.


I'm going to bostons 5k legacy event and I will post the list once I figure out some numbers.

I run 13 lands right now with 11 dredgers, want 14 lands and 12 dredgers.

[Joe_C]

I run 13 lands right now with 11 dredgers, want 14 lands and 12 dredgers.

ask and you shall receive my masterpiece:

4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Cephalid Colesium
1 Tarnished Citadel
1 Undiscovered Paradise

4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Putrid Imp
3 Tireless Tribe
4 Careful Study
4 Bridge
4 Grave Troll
4 Stinkweed
4 Therapy
4 Thug
2 Breakthrough
1 Sage
1 Flame Kin
3 Dread Return

This has been solid for me.... I may play this list next time I get to go to a tournament. Father's day interferes with the Boston event for me

[hwtcharger07]

joe c what was your anti merfolk tech from awhile back and how did it work out for you