[Deck] Mono-Blue Control (MUC)

[4eak]

This has been discussed many times.

Fetchlands are perfectly acceptable with Brainstorm or Engineered Explosives. These cards are usually only played in draw/go versions of MUC. Versions which use more permanents often don't play play either of the mentioned cards, and thus have little reason to play fetchlands.

Deck thinning isn't as meaningful as some people thought, but it still does something, especially in decks that tend to draw half their library each game. The lifeloss for the thinning effect alone isn't worth it though.

Some people don't like Brainstorm /shrug, tough. Fetchlands and Brainstorm have proven themselves in tournament quality MUC decks many times.

@ Zir

I agree that shuffling is generally not wanted after an impulse. But, I think it is important to remember there are also times when you're forced to choose between good cards that you don't want on the bottom of your library. Sometimes I really do want to shuffle after Impulse, sometimes it just doesn't matter, and sometimes I am glad that junk is on the bottom.





peace,
4eak

[DeMarki]

Lands:
24 Island

Counters:
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
4 Force Spike

Draw:
4 Ophidian
4 Fact or Fiction
3 Impulse

Control:
3 Back to Basics
4 Powder Keg
4 Sower of Temptation

Beef:
2 Morphling

I'm currently running this version of MUC and it served me well so far, pretty decent board control, Sowers to steal the fatties and Kegs to deal with weenies, loads of counters and Ophidian/Fact for massive card draw.

[Arsenal]

Personally, I'd run Spell Snare in place of Force Spike; 2cmc threats are far, far, too prevelant and Spell Snare can hit stuff no matter what turn it is while Force Spike's effectiveness really decreases after turn 4/5.

Also, I'd run no less than 4 Back to Basics; it's the only reason MUC can still be competitive.

[Zir]

4eak: True, but statistically seen you'll have to choose between 4 great cards and 4 horrible cards equally often, with something in the middle occuring a lot more than either. No shuffle effects are preferred imo.

[DeMarki]

Chubby has made a good point about why they shouldn't be played here.
The math concerning fetchlands and deckthinning can be found here.

I read an interesting Legacy article that says otherwise though, check it out:
http://www.starcitygames.com/php/new...cle/15815.html

Playing Impulse is another reason fetches shouldn't be played.
When playing Impulse, you'll probably take the card best for the current situation. If we assume the 4 cards you saw are no better in quality than the rest of the deck (which is statistically probable), the 3 you'll be putting on the bottom will average a lower quality than the rest of your deck (since you chose the best). This creates a slightly higher quality of topdecks for the rest of the game, which you'll be undoing by fetching.

This is actually my major concern regarding Fetchlands, even after tons of playtesting I cannot decide whether the shuffle effect helps or negates one major advantage Impulse provides, putting cards you might not need on the botton of your library. Any suggestions?

***Big concern incoming***

And one other thing that made me wonder, I read articles and primers on MUC for both Legacy and Vintage, and while in Legacy people keep reminding how important constant land drops are therefore they run 24 Islands(no Fetchlands, no Wastelands), ALL Vintage MUC decks I checked play less than 9 Islands along with 6+ Fetchlands and 4 Wastelands.

May I ask why? It's the same deck in both Vintage and Legacy(the only difference being the Vintage version running Mana Drains and Power9), so how can the Vintage version run only 8 Islands, while the Legacy version runs 24?

Since Duals + Fetchlands + Wastelands are legal in Legacy, why does the Vintage version of MUC run 6 Fetchlands + 4 Wastelands?

I just don't get it.

[Soulles]

Another nice finish (7° out of 60) by soulles with his MUC deck here.

Nice list as usual, only you cut Powder Keg for Divert? Did it worked good?

If you got time to write a report too will be nice, your version of MUC seems the best actually, results speaks by itself.

Hmm report, been a while so i don't remember everything.

The reason for dropping Powder Keg is the disappearance of Nimble Mongoose and mass tokens (like Empty the Warrens and Ichorid). They are not present anymore in the Dutch/Belgium Meta.

I played Divert, because i got sick of ending twice on the 10th place in the two previous tournaments. Losing to Eva Green in the decisive match for the top8 really sucks.

Yes Divert did help a bit, but i only had it 5 times in my hand in the entire tournament. So i can't say if the card is good or bad yet, more testing is needed.

As for the tournament it self, i lost first match (to the winner of the tournament). Did win the first game, but then hello Choke and whatever screws blue decks. Won the other 4 matches and IDed my self in to the top8.

Due the new card, Qsuali Pridemage (However it is spelled) i sincerely advise everyone to play 4 Spell Snares. This card makes you cry.



As for the Fetchland discussion. Not one person has mentioned the factor that you could shuffle 3-7 Islands on top of your deck after Fetching. I have been there and done that, so i rather shuffle my deck once and hope for the best.
Deck thinning means nothing if you screw your self while shuffling and the chance for this phenomena occurring is there.

[Arsenal]

And one other thing that made me wonder, I read articles and primers on MUC for both Legacy and Vintage, and while in Legacy people keep reminding how important constant land drops are therefore they run 24 Islands(no Fetchlands, no Wastelands), ALL Vintage MUC decks I checked play less than 9 Islands along with 6+ Fetchlands and 4 Wastelands.

May I ask why? It's the same deck in both Vintage and Legacy(the only difference being the Vintage version running Mana Drains and Power9), so how can the Vintage version run only 8 Islands, while the Legacy version runs 24?

Since Duals + Fetchlands + Wastelands are legal in Legacy, why does the Vintage version of MUC run 6 Fetchlands + 4 Wastelands?

I just don't get it.

To the best of my knowledge, MUC hasn't been truly viable/competitive in Vintage since the restriction of Fact or Fiction.

[DeMarki]

To the best of my knowledge, MUC hasn't been truly viable/competitive in Vintage since the restriction of Fact or Fiction.

Not really, most decks I checked rely on cheap artifacts(Moxen, Chalice) Thirst for Knowledge, Tinker -> Colossus/Leviathan combo mostly, thus playing Mana Leak instead of Counterspell for a 1st turn counter with a random Mox played.

The thing is all Vintage versions of MUC run 8-9 Islands, 6 Fetchlands, 4 Wastelands and a Strip Mine. Why does the Legacy MUC version run 24 Islands instead?

[Arsenal]

Not really, most decks I checked rely on cheap artifacts(Moxen, Chalice) Thirst for Knowledge, Tinker -> Colossus/Leviathan combo mostly, thus playing Mana Leak instead of Counterspell for a 1st turn counter with a random Mox played.

The thing is all Vintage versions of MUC run 8-9 Islands, 6 Fetchlands, 4 Wastelands and a Strip Mine. Why does the Legacy MUC version run 24 Islands instead?

Probably because we run 4 Back to Basics... and would run 8 if we had the chance.

Also, I'd be interested in knowing where you're finding this data. I checked deckcheck.net, and I haven't found anything that remotely resemble MUC in Vintage past 2007.

EDIT: Also, Vintage MUC has access to Moxen/Lotus/Vault/etc. and Mana Drain. Those cards alone will greatly scew your Land:non-land count by a lot. Just something to keep in mind when constructing a Vintage deck.

[Shawon]

Has anyone considered this card as supplementary control-magic to Vedalken Shackles:

Dominate X1UU
Instant
Gain control of target creature with converted mana cost X or less. (This effect doesn't end at end of turn.)

It's blue, and it's an instant, so it isn't a permanent that needs to stay in play for you to keep the creature. Plus, with a cost of X1UU, you can reliably dodge Counterbalance.

[Captain_Morgan]

Has anyone considered this card as supplementary control-magic to Vedalken Shackles:

Dominate X1UU
Instant
Gain control of target creature with converted mana cost X or less. (This effect doesn't end at end of turn.)

It's blue, and it's an instant, so it isn't a permanent that needs to stay in play for you to keep the creature. Plus, with a cost of X1UU, you can reliably dodge Counterbalance.

Too expensive, too slow. For example a Goyf you're investing in directly 3UU just to take it. Shackles you can invest in that over two turns rather than an upfront cost.

Bribery is superior to it, since you just whip out whatever you want from their deck being derelict of all protection issues. Treachery as well, although with grips and timing rules you'll remain tapped out and it's a tad too slow against certain decks, well both are.

Shackles is just the superior card, reusible, cheap, and effective. It also dodges CB.

[Jak]

Too expensive, too slow. For example a Goyf you're investing in directly 3UU just to take it. Shackles you can invest in that over two turns rather than an upfront cost.

Bribery is superior to it, since you just whip out whatever you want from their deck being derelict of all protection issues. Treachery as well, although with grips and timing rules you'll remain tapped out and it's a tad too slow against certain decks, well both are.

Shackles is just the superior card, reusible, cheap, and effective. It also dodges CB.

Umm Bribery does nothing to affect the board while this takes a creature that they played. Huge difference.

This is also an instant, which makes it superior in a lot of ways. The biggest one is not being able to get Gripped or Pridemaged. And I would like to add that this dodges CB as well.

[Shawon]

Shackles is just the superior card, reusible, cheap, and effective. It also dodges CB.

I know, that's why I suggested Dominate as supplementary control magic to Shackles. People here are suggesting Sower of Temptation and Threads of Disloyalty as additional control magic to Shackles. I think Dominate is better than both cards, in MUC, since Dominate is instant speed, unlike the other two.

[jthanatos]

I will concede it is usually better than threads, but sower is great at addressing a number of weaknesses usually involved with MUC. It is a great control card that can give us a threat in a pinch. It steals dreadnaught, big goyfs, and tombstalker without breaking a sweat, and more importantly gives us the ability to put people (and by people I mean combo and landstill) on an actual clock game 1. Also, it tends to mess with people's boarding strategies against us, as many opponents will keep in creature removal to deal with it.

Now, I have not tested dominate, and I could very much see it run in the 1-2 flexible spots most MUC builds have, depending on your meta, but I would would be hard pressed to replace either shackles or sower with it.

[Arsenal]

Sower is often run in conjunction with Kira, eating up additional slots. If you're not running Sower + Kira, and Sower only, then you're spending countermagic protecting Sower from all sorts of removal. I've never liked Sower in MUC, but if it's going to be played, I don't see how you can play it without Kira (or something other universal shroud-esque effect).

[Soulles]

I will concede it is usually better than threads, but sower is great at addressing a number of weaknesses usually involved with MUC. It is a great control card that can give us a threat in a pinch. It steals dreadnaught, big goyfs, and tombstalker without breaking a sweat, and more importantly gives us the ability to put people (and by people I mean combo and landstill) on an actual clock game 1. Also, it tends to mess with people's boarding strategies against us, as many opponents will keep in creature removal to deal with it.

Now, I have not tested dominate, and I could very much see it run in the 1-2 flexible spots most MUC builds have, depending on your meta, but I would would be hard pressed to replace either shackles or sower with it.

Actually 2 of the 3 creatures you mention here are better off being Dominated than Sowered.

For Dreadnaught, it is 4 mana instant speed, for Goyf it is 5.

I think it is a card that is worth testing and i might do so in the future. I just think cards like these and Telemin Preformance fail versus Merfolk, Zoo, Goblin and other aggro weenie decks.

[jthanatos]

The first paragraph of my post was merely a breakdown of common things that sower helps MUC steal and the other things it brings to the table, as opposed to shackles, not a comment on sower vs dominate.

Also, I have never proposed telemin performance as anything but a sideboard card. It is only sometimes useful, but the times it is, it just wins games.

[deadlock]

You can always find arguments for and against Sower / steal effects.

Concerning Sower, some prefer to play it maindeck, but to be on the save side i prefer to side them in, while presenting a maindeck where spot removal is (next to) useless.
So that you opponent either sides out spot removal directly or if he leaves it in, its only useful against my 2-3 Sowers i brought in.

[DeMarki]

You can always find arguments for and against Sower / steal effects.

Concerning Sower, some prefer to play it maindeck, but to be on the save side i prefer to side them in, while presenting a maindeck where spot removal is (next to) useless.
So that you opponent either sides out spot removal directly or if he leaves it in, its only useful against my 2-3 Sowers i brought in.

The thing is apart from the fact it can steal fatties, Sower is also threat and it has flying thus putting additional pressure on your opponent. You got counterspells to protect it anyway.

[Jason]

With the new rulings starting July 11, is there any reason to play a non-Call the Skybreaker win condition in this deck anymore?

Rainbow Efreet is still ok but is now less than optimal because it can't eat creatures before phasing out.

Morphling is now a flying Hill Giant with shroud (unless they find a way to take that away too).

Meloku is looking like a possible option but it dies to removal.

I feel 2x Call the Skybreaker couldn't possibly be the best option.

The question is, with the win-conditions not being bombs anymore and Alara Reborn having Qasali Pridemage, is this deck even viable anymore?