[M10] General Discussion on Rules Changes

[eq.firemind]

Fuck.

Fuck! FUCK!! FUCK!!!

Just started to foil out my Death & Taxes and they nerfed combat?? Damn, what the fucking dumb thing!

No mana burn? Fuuuuck, no more Vial Ethersworn Canonist/Orim's Chant in responce to Dark Ritual/after huge Gaea's Cradle and Serra's Sanctum??
Well, that's not the end of the world, but I'll loose many style points with this shitty new rules...

"People don't understand (combat) rules"
Once my little 4-years old sister saw 10th edition Squee, she asked me to teach her to play this "funny little men". I did and after a week or so she blocked my x/2 or multiple x/1 with Mogg Fanatic like a champ.
So please show me that "misunderstanding" people!

And if they want to simplify rules, they could work on a lot of REALLY confusing things. Opalescence+Humility comes in mind...

[THEchubbymuffin]

We make these changes to make the combat step easier and less complicated...


No. This shit does not work.

Would also like to veer off-topic and reiterate; The M10 symbol is so ugly.

[Blitzbold]

I am quite surprised by some of the upcoming changes. They seem to be disguisting, at least for all of the older players. But after a second thought only a few of the proposed changes will have major influences on how the game plays out. In my view those are: emptying the mana pool after each segment and -of course- the alterations of the combat phase.

But let me tell you this: I started playing when The Dark was the latest expansion, so I already survived the "Doom of the game" (named 6th Ed.) once.

Of course I am also a bit pissed that WotC seems to listen to casuals more than to those enjoying the more competitive part of the game, but on the other hand we have to accept that it's still a company which wants to optimize there income... So adjust to the changes, learn the new rules and enjoy the game.

In my view those who claim that they'll quit the game now because of these changes already quit playing at heart.

[omgkitties]

This is really, really frustrating. I care less about the no more mana burn thing, but emptying at steps and phases is stupid. Simultaneous mulligans and no more combat tricks are epic fail...

SIGH

[Leftconsin]

The combat damage change is just surreal. Was it necessary to save the game... from anything?

[Skeggi]

Fuck.

Fuck! FUCK!! FUCK!!!

QFT.

I'm sad.

[memnarch]

lets just pretend like these changes never happened in legacy ok? agreed.

[Artowis]

Don't give a shit about the majority of the changes and in fact could see why they wanted to streamline the game. The combat damage switch is complete bullshit though and literally every single competitive player I've talked too on IRC, AIM, FB, etc has agreed on this point. Fuck, I think almost every other post I've seen online has all gotten stuck on #5 in the article with some disgust.

[THEchubbymuffin]

I can already imagine...

1k Legacy tourney
10/25/09
Unsanctioned
Pre-M10 rules.

[Jason]

So how does banding work now?

I attack with a band of Benalish Hero, Pikemen, and Mesa Pegasus and my opponent blocks with Mulldrifter and Mesa Pegasus, do I as the attacker still select the "blocking order" in case during the declare blockers step, I choose to Terror the Mesa Pegasus? Let's say I don't Terror it, and seeing as my opponent is blocking with a creature with banding he or she should get to choose how damage is dealt to his or her creatures. So does that mean my opponent rearranges the "blocking order"? And do I have to select "attacking creature damage order"? Will the Mulldrifter and Mesa Pegasus always die because of the lethal damage shenanigans? Can I still put all 3 damage on my Benalish Hero? Or are we just going to ignore the new rules for banding just like we ignore the new rules for deathtouch?

Can I please get the proper combat procedure for banding, Wizards of the Coast?

[jimirynk]

I just sold my judge ball lightnings.. FML.

[rleader]

I post a lot on one of the more largest mainstream tech/geek sites and I'm *the* Magic guy there, which is funny considering my DCI number just expired: nevertheless, I'm in charge of organizing all the Magic threads for new sets, etc.

From a lot of people there, I get a palpable sense that rules are evil and that actually knowing them is "akin to cheating." Seriously, there was a general gaming thread called "when knowing the rules is like cheating" and Magic was listed as a prime offender. People claimed that Magic was more arguing than playing in their experience, with good people vs. rule mongering dicks.

So I can see where Wizards is coming from here. OTOH, my answer to those guys was:

Once you know the actual rules, there's not much room for rule mongering.

Playing on MTGO for a bit is a pretty good step. I've found that most current players who have at least dabbled there have a 99% solid understanding of the stack and most mechanics.

The only real confusing cards that are left, corner cases that are unintuitive, can be learned pretty easily by format. Unless you play EVERY format, it's not that much work -- and it's something I'd imagine something most Magic players consider fun.

For example, every legacy player should just know how humility interacts with various things like Phyrexian Totem or Nantuko Monastary just as every standard player should take the time to read how Snakeform and Mirrorweave work.

I dunno -- I think rules are awesome. I love how Everlasting Torment makes Swans of Bryn Argoll mortal. Or how colorless mana can get an engineered explosives around a counterbalance. Or how someone can discover that Helm of Obedience is an instant kill with Leyline of the Void in play, years after both cards were available. Rules rock!

So the funny thing is that now Wizards is (and you know they are: when design space opens up, you walk through it) going to make newer cards that somehow interact the same way despite those rules changes. So what's the point?

Mogger Fanatic R
You can Sacrifice this as an instant. When this goes to the graveyard, do one damage to target player or creature.
1/1

[jazzykat]

Like the rest of you I can sympathize that its irritating to have to "relearn" the rules.

While, I'm not terribly thrilled about the changes I do like returning more to the old flavor of the game at least as far as wording.

Now, the big change: The current Combat Step while complicated was to the best of my knowledge w/o exceptions. Even though the New general case makes much more sense to me (I can still remember my confusion when the 6th ed rules were rolled out) the exceptions create a lot of new things to remember.

Overall a change nothing more. It's something to get used to and hey look how everyone was clamoring about making the format more interesting. Now you've got rule changes to "make things interesting"

[andrew77]

I am so happy I sold my cards last year right now. If these changes stick a lot of players will quit. They really seem to be pushing magic more and more towards yugioh and other retard friendly games.

Seriously though the combat damage thing is complete bs. Sure it might not make sense, but it made magic unique. It was one of the few things no other ccg had. Now when I look at magic after these changes it just seems awful. All the skill is being removed from the game, but a huge luck element is still an essential part. WTF? I don't see any fun in that.

[4eak]

Damn. That sucks. They've removed choices and simplified the game. The combat system nerf probably affects Legacy more than other formats. Complex combat was one of the better parts of this format in my eyes. I'm sad to see that change.




peace,
4eak

[rleader]

I logged onto MTGO tonight and in the casual chat place, a guy called WotC_Matt was dropping pearls of wisdom behind a corporate grin.

Some "highlights":

see, you say "what's so confusing," but you just explained them incorrectly.

Everyone certainly does not agree. :)

Because mana burn was limiting on design space and confusing and unnecessary

These changes aren't aimed at the bottom (or top) players.

The rules are the rules. When they change, they change.

I don't believe flavor is the primary motivator behind any of the changes. But a welcome side benefit for some of them.

I think the italicized portion is the more curious assertion.

The flavor section probably the least curious: that way they get to duck how fucking thematic mana burn was.

[Elfrago]

Don't give a shit about the majority of the changes and in fact could see why they wanted to streamline the game. The combat damage switch is complete bullshit though and literally every single competitive player I've talked too on IRC, AIM, FB, etc has agreed on this point. Fuck, I think almost every other post I've seen online has all gotten stuck on #5 in the article with some disgust.

QFT.

[rleader]

Also from WotC_Matt:

At least you're not being overly dramatic about it. ;-)

....

[t]hat's clear by your willingness to leave [magic] baed [sic] on rules changes you haven't played with yet.

If you thought the tone of the article's conclusion was bad, Wizards' employees are being even bigger tools.

[citanul]

Yeah, afaict. You can't ever randomly equip a Jitte to it and gain counters though. And of course getting multiple benefits from interactions is what decks like the rock are all about; otherwise, it's just a pile.

I don't see how you'll ever equip a Jitte to a Sakura, block, sac AND get counters though.

I'm joining the hate against the new combat damage thing team. I'll adjust because I have to but I'll be pissed for a while.

[hungryLIKEALION]

I am absolutely at a loss for words. So many cards I love just became terrible. The ability for 2-for-1s was half the reason to play Mogg Fanatic and Qasali Pridemage, and the inability to trade fanatic up for a larger creature makes it pretty much pitiful. Pridemage just got a lot weaker, which fucking blows since it was the most exciting card to come out for zoo in a fucking long time.

I've been against the removal of mana burn from the beginning (It's flavorful and, as far as I'm concerned, a useful strategic element of the game), and I even play decks that hate mana burn (Tron and Dragon Stompy come to mind, as I take uneccesary mana burn all the time due to the multi-mana lands.) But taking away the ability to float mana into the draw step? FUCK that. If I'm allowed to complain about Standard here, You had to make Mistbind Clique even BETTER, Wizards? God, I'm fucking ready to quit that fucking format. And Rishadan Port just got a lot more powerful, which I guess isn't bad, but it's frustrating none-the-less.

I'm just so appalled at the changes to combat... Like, the damage assignment to multiple blockers change really makes me mad. It comes up often enough that it is relevant, and it actually makes LESS sense with the change. The loss of the stack is just shit icing on this fucking bullshit cake.