[Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

[aTn]

I have a question for Rich... so... like... what's your list like...

Here you go... back on the front page...

[Rood]

Okay guys after the 5k SCG Boston tournament I realize just how unprepared I was with my board. It was absolute garbage I wished that Clasms were Spouts all day and that I had BEB. My new board

3x REB
3x BEB
3x Firespout
2x Relic of Progenitus
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Spell Snare
1x Echoing Truth
1x Pithing Needle

Let me explain the card choices

REB- Solid against a heavily infested Merfolk meta at the moment. Really good against CB/Top

BEB- Zoo/Goyf sligh is apparently now 30-50% of the meta lol. Don't run any less then 3.

3x Firespout- Pyroclasm just doesn't get there anymore.

2x Relic of Progenitus- Slows down Goyf...much better then Crypt. Slays Ichorid.

1x Crucible of Worlds- Your ace in the hole against mirror as well as Merfolk.

1x Spell Snare- I decided to put one of these in the board mainly so postside I can go -1 Daze +1 Snare when I'm on the draw. That way I can still keep 4x Dazes maindeck.

1x Echoing Truth- Still need at least once random bounce spell to deal with troublesome cards.

1x Pithing Needle - Fetch with Mage of course.

Note this is for U/r and not for U/g/r. Let me know what you guys think.

[johanessen]

No ancient grudge/shattering spree?

[odabella]

No ancient grudge/shattering spree?

U/r -> no green, no huge amount of red mana

[pippo84]

So,
3 Beb and 3 Reb are great! I just have to add that Beb is not so great in my meta because I've faced a red deck only once in a tournament.
3 Firespout: they are just better than clasm.
2 relic: ok, I would play 3.. Maybe 1 Crypt
1 Crucible: never tested it but seems quite solid
1 Spell Snare: why? you already play 3 maindeck..
1 Pithing Needle: I would play it MB cutting Daze N.4
1 Echoing Truth: I Think 1 is not enough. Seems to random: add another 1 at least since you don't have many solutions once a threat landed.

Btw this is my current SB in UGR Dreadstill, and I also suggest you to try Fire/Ice MB or SB if you have the chance.

3 Krosan Grip
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of the Progenitus
3 Reb
3 Beb
3 Firespout

[AngryTroll]

Btw this is my current SB in UGR Dreadstill, and I also suggest you to try Fire/Ice MB or SB if you have the chance.

3 Krosan Grip
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of the Progenitus
3 Reb
3 Beb
3 Firespout

If you run UR Dreadstill (No Goyfs), Relic is better than Crypt in most applications. I run 1 Relic main, and 1 Relic, 1 Crypt in the board. You want Crypt available to fetch with Trinket Mage when you need to get the job done ASAP, but dropping a Relic is usually better than dropping a Crypt.



One thing I really like about running UR Dreadstill is the more stable manabase. I'm running 4 Factory and 3 Wastes, and still have room for 5 basic islands. In the remaining slots, I've ended up settling on Dreadnought #4, Daze #4, 2 Crucibles, and 1 Relic. You could easily drop 3 or 4 Spell Snares in here instead of the Crucibles and a Daze..

Goyf seems like the way to go (see: SCG $5K), but Relic and Crucible mainboard is saucy. 5 Basic Islands is pretty solid against most things, too.

[J.V.]

I have a question for Rich... so... like... what's your list like...

Here you go... back on the front page...

This was Rich's Maindeck, I'm not positive of his board:
Lands:21
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
3 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
3 Island

Creatures:9
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
2 Trinket Mage

Noncreature Spells:30
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
4 Force of Will
3 Standstill
3 Counterbalance
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Daze
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Trickbind
1 Ponder
1 Fire/Ice


His sideboard had some number of REBS, BEBS, Relics, Crypts, Fire/Ices, K-Grips, and Firespouts.

[pippo84]

Does it seem to me, or many people are dropping to 3 Standstill?
By the way with Rich's list I don't understand a few things. 3 Lightning Bolt and 1 Fire/Ice? The card is just awsome!
And I'm still not fond of just 2 Sensei's divining top even playing 2 Trinket Mage. I think 3 top is the right number to play..

Ok, 1 last question now.. Friends of mine are suggesting to add Black again instead of Red or as a fourth color cutting Mishras.. They are telling me to try Bob again instead of Standstill and Thoughtseize insead of Spell Snare.
I'm not so sure if it's the way to go. Probably not.

[J.V.]

Does it seem to me, or many people are dropping to 3 Standstill?
By the way with Rich's list I don't understand a few things. 3 Lightning Bolt and 1 Fire/Ice? The card is just awsome!
And I'm still not fond of just 2 Sensei's divining top even playing 2 Trinket Mage. I think 3 top is the right number to play..

Ok, 1 last question now.. Friends of mine are suggesting to add Black again instead of Red or as a fourth color cutting Mishras.. They are telling me to try Bob again instead of Standstill and Thoughtseize insead of Spell Snare.
I'm not so sure if it's the way to go. Probably not.

In my vast testing it is much worse than standstill and Mishra's, but give it a try if you want.

[pippo84]

@ J.V. I initially started with UB Dreadstill, then passed to UBG and from a while now UGR and It's the best I had for the moment.
I think G is the must have color because of Tarmogoyf, we need another beater because sometimes Dreadnought isn't always enough..
What do you think of merchant scrolls, or tutors in the deck? Never tried them, but could be an idea.. To search istants when you need them.. With mystical tutor you can search for counters, stifle or whatever.. Anyone ever tried it?

[J.V.]

@ J.V. I initially started with UB Dreadstill, then passed to UBG and from a while now UGR and It's the best I had for the moment.
I think G is the must have color because of Tarmogoyf, we need another beater because sometimes Dreadnought isn't always enough..
What do you think of merchant scrolls, or tutors in the deck? Never tried them, but could be an idea.. To search istants when you need them.. With mystical tutor you can search for counters, stifle or whatever.. Anyone ever tried it?

Well Mystical Tutor is awful, if your going to be adding more card disadvantage you better be winning the game immediately. As for Scroll what would you run it over? And I agree Green is necessary. But I also think red is, Firespout and Red Elemental Blast are too important in the current meta to not run them.

[Shimi]

Does it seem to me, or many people are dropping to 3 Standstill?
By the way with Rich's list I don't understand a few things. 3 Lightning Bolt and 1 Fire/Ice? The card is just awsome!
And I'm still not fond of just 2 Sensei's divining top even playing 2 Trinket Mage. I think 3 top is the right number to play..

Ok, 1 last question now.. Friends of mine are suggesting to add Black again instead of Red or as a fourth color cutting Mishras.. They are telling me to try Bob again instead of Standstill and Thoughtseize insead of Spell Snare.
I'm not so sure if it's the way to go. Probably not.

I'm playing Ugr ( Green are for goyf and Red for side and EE for 3) and I realized that It is the best splash colors , red just hava many things to take care of faries , merfolks , goblins , can counter Fow and Blue Pact or even destroy a CB , and green gives us Goyf ( another beater with Mishra's and Dreadnought) and Grips for CB/Mirror and other boring stuff.

About droping to 3 StandStill I have some fear about it... I tested with 3 and there were alot of matchs which I you like to see standstill in my hand , but when I went to 4 I wished many times that the topdeck wasn't a Standstill , so I'm my still looking for the right number.

[Rood]

So,
3 Beb and 3 Reb are great! I just have to add that Beb is not so great in my meta because I've faced a red deck only once in a tournament.
3 Firespout: they are just better than clasm.
2 relic: ok, I would play 3.. Maybe 1 Crypt
1 Crucible: never tested it but seems quite solid
1 Spell Snare: why? you already play 3 maindeck..
1 Pithing Needle: I would play it MB cutting Daze N.4
1 Echoing Truth: I Think 1 is not enough. Seems to random: add another 1 at least since you don't have many solutions once a threat landed.

Snare is there again postside when you win G1 you board out
-1 Daze +1 Snare...Gives you a much better chance of countering their 2 drops. 4x Dazes stay MD because if you win the die roll it's alot better then 4x Snare obv.

U/R should never run less then 4 Dazes. We run the most extreme of the mana denial package with 6x Stifle 3x Waste then the 4x Daze to compliment it. Needle really doesn't do much more then EE and EE kills dudes.

Even when I ran more then 2 E-truths I always would normally board in just one...because the MD is so solid it's hard to ever cut anything.

Also on the 3x Standstills...it's definetally working for some players and I can see why they cut one with all the Merfolk running around but it's really your call. Staying with the core 4x will not hurt you if you did decide to stick with 4.

[Wasteland]

My idea for a build, maindeck near identically to the UR build, but with other sideboard options (better against all sort of random aggro / tribal / goyf stuff, worse against control, but since i've not lost a single control matchup i'll give that a try ).

Hausmann's Duckhunt:

//Lands (21):
3x flooded strand
3x polluted delta
3x underground sea
5x island
3x wasteland
4x mishra's factory

//Creatures (7):
4x phyrexian dreadnought
3x trinket mage

//Other spells (32):
4x brainstorm
4x stifle
2x trickbind
3x spell snare
4x daze
4x standstill
3x counterbalance
4x force of will
1x engineered explosives
2x sensei's divining top
1x crucible of worlds

//Sideboard (15):
3x blue elemental blast
3x perish
4x engineered plague
1x engineered explosives
1x crucible of worlds
1x tormod's crypt
2x relic of progenitus

Another option for the sideboard are 2 virtue's ruin, but that is a metachoice...
Greetz,
Marius Hausmann

[Ch@os]

So black for perish & engineered plague.

Why not red for Firespout wich handels tribal AND zoo/random creature pile.
And also improves your control matchup [REB].
Seems a lot better than black without Confidant.

[Wasteland]

Cause Firespout suxx against Flyers (named Faeries / Specters) and does nothing against Creatures like Tarmogoyf?
After that, Plage is better against Tribal Shit then 1time Removal...
Btw Perish goes ALL the way home.

[deadlock]

After loosing too many games to Merfolk i dismissed the Ug build for now and moved to the Ugr build, which seems to be the best currently (backed up by the recent success of Ugr).

Looking at the decklist of VsTheWorld it seems quite natural to switch out the 4rd Still for the 4rd CB. The points i want to discuss are the number of Dazes/Spell Snares in the Ugr build and the manabase.

The two Dazes aren't random at all. Daze itself is a terrible card that tends to clog up your hand beyond turn 3/4 so by running two you don't draw into too many of them but you draw it enough for your opponent to know you run it so they still play around it which makes it worth while.

I slightly disagree, i dont see Daze as a terrible card, but as a necessary piece of disruption, that really shines if you are on the play.
Because it is somewhat situational i undestand to go down to three, but wonder if going down to two is the right choice. Especially in a deck like Dreadstill, were it is backed up by Stifle and Waste. I also think that both Daze and Snare somewhat compete for the same slot. For know i would say three of both is the right choice in many cases, not calculating in the manacurve. Also Spell Snare can still be played in the board, whereas playing Daze in the board doesnt make much sense.

About the manabase, VsTheWorld list has the interesting change in going down to three Factories in order to play the maximum amount of basics.
The other end of design possibilitys would be to go down to 1-2 basic Island and increase the number of Fetchlands to be able to get green and red more reliably. Personally i tend to play more basics, but i have to test this to back it up.

At least, what do you think is the correct number of EE? With three Trinket Mage we get away to play one i think, but i am not sure about the case of two Mages. Note that i always play the second copy in the board, if i play only one in the maindeck.

Also on the 3x Standstills...it's definetally working for some players and I can see why they cut one with all the Merfolk running around but it's really your call. Staying with the core 4x will not hurt you if you did decide to stick with 4.

Especially in the Ur version i would try three Standstill, because of the lack of Goyf, while adding the fourth CB and the third Top.
Another possibility is to add 2 Threads to the maindeck, to negate the lack of additional beaters. Most decks cant answer them with their maindeck, other than killing the stolen creature.
Still hoping that the Ur build will prevail, its far more elegant than Ugr.

I also second Ch@os, without Bob there is no poin in splashing black, Plague is inferior to Firespout and Perish is quite narrow imo.

[Wasteland]

And i still say Firespout suxx in Builds that dont run G cause of its lack in handling flyers...
By the way, why is Perish narrow?...
The bad Matchups of Dreadstill are Decks like Rock with heavy green creatures (not only Goyfs but also Baloths / Hierarchs etc. ...)
In theese Mu's perish is a bomb and against Goyfsligh too (especially together with Blue Blasts)

[Rood]

And i still say Firespout suxx in Builds that dont run G cause of its lack in handling flyers...
By the way, why is Perish narrow?...
The bad Matchups of Dreadstill are Decks like Rock with heavy green creatures (not only Goyfs but also Baloths / Hierarchs etc. ...)
In theese Mu's perish is a bomb and against Goyfsligh too (especially together with Blue Blasts)

Firespout isn't narrow even if you don't play with a green source for it. Faeries are pretty much a non-existant deck in the meta at the moment and the only real flying creature that matters is Hypnotic Specter for Spout.

[scrumdogg]

And i still say Firespout suxx in Builds that dont run G cause of its lack in handling flyers...
By the way, why is Perish narrow?...
The bad Matchups of Dreadstill are Decks like Rock with heavy green creatures (not only Goyfs but also Baloths / Hierarchs etc. ...)
In theese Mu's perish is a bomb and against Goyfsligh too (especially together with Blue Blasts)

Perish (and it's little known Portal twin...) are fine cards, but they are, in fact narrow. Things Perish does not address:
Merfolk...popular deck? check. Islandwalk a possible issue? check. Perish? <insert sound of Merfolk snickering underwater...>
Zoo/Goyf Sligh...popular deck(s)? check. Critters in those builds not addressed by Perish - Kird Ape, Grim Lavamancer, Keldon Marauder, Figure of Destiny, occasionally some rogue choice like CCC (almost all handled, btw, by Firespout..)
Ichorid...popular deck? at least in New England, check. Capable of racing Dreadstill (or anybody else...)? check. Critters not handled by Perish...the entire damn deck unless they reanimate a Golgari Grave Troll? check & sigh.

Don't get me wrong, even though I love critters (especially green critters) I would love for Perish to be better than it is. But when looked upon as a lone answer/sweeper (as opposed to part of a crafted package of control) it is not as good as one would like in current Legacy.