[deck] Black Ice

[av310]

After playing (small)tournament level magic for about 4-5 years, i have gotten fed up with card rotation, and consequently decided I'd give Legacy a shot. I decided I'd look at the format and see if i could find any decks that i like, but couldn't so i set out to build one. After a little bit (not much) testing on MWS I ended up with this.

//Lands
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
3 City of Traitors
9 Swamps

//Spells
4 Dark Ritual
4 Sarcomancy
4 Thoughtseize
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
3 Winter Orb
3 Snuff out

//Creatures
4 Carnophage
4 Priest of Gix
2 Tombstalker

The basic strategy of the deck is to use all the cheap disruption quickly, early, and very aggresively (turn 1-2). I then empty my hand with Priest of Gix and Dark Ritual and drop Winter Orb the same or next turn(hopefully).

Here's a list of cards that i A) have tried or B) am thinking about trying
Mesmeric Fiend(haven't tried it but i think it could be good in here)
Dark Confidant (tried it, caused more harm than good with TS and Snuff Out)
Hippy (messes up my turn when i empty my hand but very powerful as always when it hits)
Nantuko Shade (terrible with winter orb)
Cabal Therapy
Lake of the Dead
Assorted Removal(diabolic edict, smother, vendetta, other stuff)

As I am not completely versed on the meta i don't know the optimal sideboard, but i was thinking Leyline of the Void/Relic of Progenitus/Tormods Crypt along with Chains of Mephistopheles (or however you spell that), and more removal for less controlly/more creature heavy decks (Smother and/or Diabolic Edict?).

Anyway, im new to the Source Forums and haven't posted anything here before. With this being my first venture into Legacy, if I've done anything especially stupid here in my post, or if this deck is straight jank, please let me know.

P.S. I realize that CounterTop causes me huge problems and I should probably splash so i can actually deal with it if the early disruption isnt enough. (that is, white for vindicate)

[rleader]

There are various mono black suicide lists going around although no one has much bothered since the printing of Tarmogoyf; you might try some of the grand prix columbus builds, too (designed to fight flash). Your control elements and manabase makes me think you'd prefer one of the Demon / Imp Stompy decks though that try to more reliably generate 2B or BBB mana on turn one.

[av310]

There are various mono black suicide lists going around although no one has much bothered since the printing of Tarmogoyf; you might try some of the grand prix columbus builds, too (designed to fight flash). Your control elements and manabase makes me think you'd prefer one of the Demon / Imp Stompy decks though that try to more reliably generate 2B or BBB mana on turn one.

Is your point that you think that a build like this has little/no chance of being succesful?

Its all good if thats your point, and I would believe you (you almost definitly have more experience in the meta than me). I'm just more interested in improving this deck than I am going down a completely different path. That is, if its at all possible to do so succesfully.

[heroicraptor]

A <insert thing here> Stompy deck uses Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, and Chrome Mox (and whatever else the color has) to accel into a strong play on turn one.

[GGoober]

I think you are low on win-conditions. Carnophage is good but he doesn't last for more than 3 turns before a big creature comes down. I would up the Tombstalker to 3-4 copies since you have Fetches/Waste/Dark Rituals/sorceries/instants to fuel him. 3 is a good number since you can cast a second Tombstalker in the mid game with fair chance.

I think you can head towards a Stompy build, but you'll have to forgo Dark Ritual. Stompy manabase is really good with WOrb since you can untap City and use artifact mana, always maintaining 3 mana open. But you lose a lot of good spells since Stompy thrives on high spells and wants to stop early 1cc spells with Chalice of the Void set at 1.

I like the idea of it though since no one has explored Black Sui with WOrb much. Doesn't sound too bad of an idea to me except that you need more win-conditions. Snuff out is GOD amazing in WOrb decks though :D

[kidsmokin]

Suicide decks lost a lot of power with le Goyf...but if you wish to play suicide, you might want to check out the Eva Green archetype, because it's basically suicide + le Goyf. I suppose if you can't beat your enemies, you should befriend your enemies.

Eva Green is slightly different though because it doesn't use WOrb. Eva Green is essentially a tempo deck. If you're still interested in Suicide, Eva Green would be my best suggestion.

[Forbiddian]

Sarcomancy, Carnophage, and Priest of Gix aren't nearly strong enough to finish the game off. That's pretty much the bottom line. If your opponent resolves a Goyf or Wild Nacatl or Kird Ape or Grim Lavamancer or Aether Vial or Serra Avenger or Bob or Lord of Atlantis or....

List goes on. Every playable card in Legacy trumps your business spells.



But as for the strategy in general: Winter Orb is not a very good card for the role you want it to do. You need some kind of HARD lock that you can implement while your opponent is down. From the list above, pretty much every single card in Legacy will trump your beatdown plan, so you have to stop them from doing anything the whole game. Discard is only very effective early game. Eventually they'll topdeck the stuff they need, be it land or creatures and be able to recover from your set of 2/2s.

Worb certainly won't do anything if you use discard to remove his entire hand so all he can do with his turn is untap. Winter Orb is good when your opponent has a ton of business and you want to stop him from playing it all out during the midgame in rapid succession to stabilize the board. If your discard plan works, then Winter Orb should be more or less useless.