Hmm, I dont know... It looks nice on paper, but you can only cast it with rainbow lands, it draws less then breakthrough. I dont think there is place for it in the deck. Or does someone disagree with meOriginally Posted by GoldenCid
~Maarten
It could be okay, but random discard is crap. Seriously it's worse than aids.
Pce,
--DC
Schadenfreude is the most genuine kind of joy, since it doesn't include even a drop of envy.Why can't we just admit it?
I thought the same...but...i'll try to get my play set in the pre release event.
I agree that the deck is perhaps the most linear around, and that the most difficult decision Game One is most often involving mulliganing. I disagree that it is easy to play. The problem with such a linear and powerful deck is that most often people do not realize their mistakes, since they are not punished for them. It's not the mulligan decisions, as you will pay for making those incorrectly. It's the ones when you are actually forced to play Magic. The ones where your opponent and you both have some modicum of your game plan implemented, but not to any overwhelming degree. Like when Landstill gets Humility down, or when Goyf Sligh kills your Bridges with a first turn Fanatic, then drops a second-turn 'Goyf after you Dredge all six types. These are where the real players still get the win.
Playing through Hate is obviously difficult, especially when your opponent has access to Black mana. It requires a patience most who choose this deck don't yet have.
I think that a lot of people do hate the deck because it is so linear. That is one of the reasons I love it. I've labored to add cards that allow multiple directions the deck can go in, and new avenues of attack. It also has a huge learning curve since it goes against all instincts from playing other decks. And you have to play it differently against each deck differently in each game of a match. People are also afraid of Hate, and Ichorid's supposed "bad matchups".
@Darkcynic: Brainstorm is fine as long as you can find room for it. The problem no matter what is that it requires a discard spell, and therefore can never replace one in a slot. It also can't replace Breakthrough since it simply draws less. The Narco trick is nice, but rarely relevant in any situation you weren't already going to win in. And the dig is most often a false positive, begging to keep hands that should have been mulliganned. In any case, it is always slower than it's alternatives.
~ Team Unicorn Motto
I understand that, but as long as you don't do that it fits the Careful Study slot fine. I would run it as a 2x of or a 3x of simply for it's digging capability as it really is superior to Study. You even have a pseudo-shuffle effect with dredge so it works quite well IMHO.
Putting Narc back on top of your library doesn't necessarily mean you are winning, it just means you have an active dredger, and probably a discard outlet. While that helps, it doesn't mean you are winning, you just still have a chance.
Pce,
--DC
Schadenfreude is the most genuine kind of joy, since it doesn't include even a drop of envy.Why can't we just admit it?
Ah, I see your point. I've played so many Game 1's with Ichorid I only remember the blowouts. It's not often you are forced to interact with any deck Game 1 because you can often blank their deck unless they run a select set of cards. Furthermore, Cabal Therapy and Unmask ensure that troublesome cards never resolve. Ichorid like any other deck rewards play skill, it just plays like some weird bastard child of Combo and Reanimator.
Ichorid's lack of appeal is strangely familiar, it reminds me of PT Columbus. Pierre Canali was one of 8 Affinity players in the tournament. He ended up winning event sweeping Nakamura, playing RDW, 3-0 in the Finals. There was a ton of hate present but Canali had tested extensively and had a great SB and Meddling Mage maindeck to deal with hate.
All it's really going to take to see the deck become a DTB is any Pro/skilled player pilot the deck to a win or T8 at a large tournament like a GP or Gencon. Maybe then the deck will get some respect.
"We are goblinkind, heirs to the mountain empires of chieftains past. Rest is death to us, and arson is our call to war."
Concernign mulligan, serum powder isn't useful as used in Vintage??
It's not even remotely as useful in Legacy. Vintage keeps if it has Bazaar and mulls if it doesn't. There are a ridiculous amount of keepable hands for Legacy (that depend far less on one 4-of being in their opener); as such it isn't nearly as good.
The E.P.I.C. Syndicate: I mean, if they play a lullaby for babies they should at least play the Monster Mash when somebody dies.
Hello,
I've played ichorid deck several times, and this deck a good amount of times too...It seems like I have lots of problems with this deck (maybe luck isn't on my side.. :p)
So, I played at least 9 round in tournament with this deck (the version of the op), and in these 9 round, I've lost 7 times the dices rolls, maybe even 8 times...
In 27 games, I got a turn 2 win, and the rest was like 5th or higher, my metagame is filled with aggro deck and decks like Threshold, survival (with blue), merfold.
There is ALWAYS 2 things missing in this : land, discard outlet, dredge, draw
Is it me being unlucky, or is it bad metagame choice ?
By the way :
If my hand is : Pimp, Breakthrough, Stinkwind Imp, Witness, unmask, gemstone mine and I am on the play, should I use my unmask even if I don't know what I am playing (game 1 )? And If I have this hand + another dredger, should I use it ?
Mmm..it's a good hand. In my opinion, if you have no idea which deck is playing your opponent you'd play unmask on him, discard, and play your imp for your own discard. Then play breakthrough in T2. It's what i'd do.
You basically have two options for playing out that hand. One would be to unmask yourself and cast breakthrough and the other would be to drop imp, dredge during your next draw step, and then breakthrough then.
If you ask me the latter is much better since unmasking yourself and going for the win has 2 problems. 1 is that you lose to FoW on breakthrough, and the second is that there is still a good chance you fizzle. If you just play an imp you are basically guaranteed a turn 2 win, possibly with the protection of unmask if your first dredge is good.
If you have another dredger the only difference is that you could unmask your opponent turn one. The only difference this would make is if they are playing a combo deck you could stop a possible turn one kill on their part.
One good thing is that there is no combo deck in my metagame, and next to none prison deck, so ichorid is doing kinda well.
By the way, in an hand like this :
PImp, Breaktrough, City of Brass, Bridge From below, Golgari Grave-troll, Ichorid, Golgari Thug.
First, if I am on the draw, should I play nothing at my turn to discard golgari Grave-troll or should I risk playing PImp and it being FOW.
If I play first, should I risk playing PImp as well ?
By the way, have anyone found the MU versus merfolk really rough ? FOW, Daze, Wasteland slow you so much.. And then if they have wake trashers, they can kill really fast..
In a general way, counter decks are not a big problem because we run ichorid (no countereable) beside cabal therapy, Unmask and LED. I you have such a hand, you have a great chance to combo off via PImp and win the game. This is probably a "great risk great reward" move against counter magic. If you saw an island at the begining doing nothing and discard for your turn is an option to ensurance your graveyard size. However, i'd take the risk... more having breaktrough in hand.
Turn one pimp is a much better play. Even if it gets countered there are 18 cards you can draw that would drastically improve your hand and even if you draw a blank you can just breakthrough to put your hand in the yard. Plus with breakthrough theres another 7 cards you can draw in the form of lands to make sure you have more gas the following turn.
This is very dependent the information you get from your opponent. If you're on the draw and you're concerned about FoW I'm assuming you saw some sort of blue source (meaning you are also open to Daze) - in which case I would just move to my discard and pitch the troll. Think of it this way: suppose you play the PImp and it's not countered, you're going to want to discard the troll on your upkeep and dredge. You only have one land in your hand so you don't lose a drop by holding the land for an extra turn. After an initial dredge from the troll you can then decide if you want to play your land and go for a Breakthrough or the PImp - possibly running the situationally weaker one first as bait. DDDing the troll seems to be the best play to me given the information - assuming this is the first game.
Agreed. If your opponent is representing countermagic, your best play is to DDD since their highest percentage play is to stop your discard outlet. You then run PImp out to force that play, and use the Therapy you've likely gotten in those two turns to guarantee a Breakthrough.
Running PImp into Force is fine. Running it into Daze is moronic.
As far as the previous hand mentioned, you always cast Breakthrough turn one on the play; and if you have PImp you would have to be a complete retard to cast it first. The only way to stop this play is Force. And if their deck runs Force, then a second turn PImp will beat them any way. There are a lot of decks that can beat a first turn PImp though.
~ Team Unicorn Motto
The therapy you've likely gotten? ROFL. The logic behind your plan assumes way too many things will happen. How do you know the first dredge will find you another dredger? If it doesn't you are just going to sit there having to DDD. If it does what if you then try and drop imp, which gets countered, then your next dredge yields no dredger. You are stuck doing nothing.
WRONG! Please explain to me how you win exactly if you are removing stinkweed to unmask. You will breakthrough, but not have a dredger. And if you remove the pimp and breakthrough gets forced you lose. You will have no discard outlets and even the slowest of decks will win by the time you can get the engine going.
I'm going to do this once to prove a point, but please don't respond to my posts anymore. It's blatantly obvious that you haven't the first clue as to what you are talking about, and it pains me greatly to have to point out what anyone with the slightest idea should already know. The fact that you've for some reason decided to directly attack the person who has done more with just this one deck than anyone else alone should allow to your ignorance.
In the first example; What fucking difference does it make if you run into a second Dredger? You either:
1. Do run into a second Dredger.
2. Resolve PImp, or
3. Discard the same fucking Dredger a turn later.
If you slow dredge, you get not only the odds of getting attackers, but Therapy as well. They have to stop PImp, and then they have to stop Breakthrough. The odds of them doing both by turn three, in addition to dealing with whatever you have dredged are astronomically against them.
All you lose is one turn drawing up from casting the PImp, and any deck that could Force the PImp will most likely be slow enough, especially with the loss of cards from Forcing, that slow dredging will win anyway.
In example two: You decide to play PImp first. I then discard your Breakthrough. You lose since I am playing oh......let's say a deck that is faster than slow dredging. Like Eva Green. Or maybe a Survival deck that now has time to get their Jailer. Or X-Stompy lands Chalice at one. Or maybe just a Goblins deck that now got their Fanatic on board before you got to use your Bridges.
In any case other than the unknown enemy having a Force and Blue card in their opening seven, leading with Breakthrough is going to be correct. I can't explain it to you any simpler. Since anyone who isn't a complete retard who has FoW will Force the Unmask regardless, you will still have Breakthrough as a draw+discard outlet. Which, yet again, should be more than enough since you already have at least one dredge for five+4 unknown cards to get another, to beat a deck with Force.
~ Team Unicorn Motto
ROFL. I'm very curious as to what exactly you did for this deck. The only really innovative thing you did was add gargadon to the sb and gargadon is utter trash.
Your game plan seems to resolve around playing the slow game in this scenario. Well what if your opponent just drops a turn 2 goyf. That alone with some countermagic will destroy you unless you have amazing dredges. There's really no reason to bank on playing Pimp in your scenario, because you expect it to get countered, and by turn 3 most blue decks will have found a second counter to answer breakthrough.
Basically, your game plan is just to slow dredge. This plan doesn't guarantee a win, and in many scenarios will be worse than the turn one Pimp plan.
Is this actually serious? A fanatic will not stop you at all and stompy decks are too slow. In the other scenarios you would have to assume my dredges suck and both of those decks have amazing hands. This assumption is just as stupid as me saying not to breakthrough because you will fizzle completely and lose, or if you don't fizzle completely your opponent will just crypt away your yard and you will lose.It makes no sense to force unmask. If you are unmasking yourself it probably means breakthrough or careful study is coming. If this is the case it is obviously better to let unmask go through and force the breakthrough. The reasoning is as follows. If you force the breakthrough all your opponent gets into his yard is 1 dredger. If you force unmask and he breakthroughs or studies he can fill up his yard with goodies.
Also, you even admit that against FoW your plan would be worse. Well maybe you don't know this, but FoW is one of the most played legacy cards. It is played more than everything that would stop my gameplan is combined. And your plan still has a chance of fizzling.
The guy's been pushing Unmask, EWitness and Firestorm for ages, I'd say he's had more influence on the evolution of legacy lists than anyone else so far, stop being a clueless dick already.
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