[Deck] Death and Taxes

[Mordel]

Yeah, I think FoD is worth trying for sure.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

So, is anyone still playing this, or did they just nerf too many of our cards with the combat damage rule, without providing anything playable in M10?

[bowvamp]

Basically D&T got megakill'd. It doesn't have insane karakas tricks, which was basically all that D&T could use to be competitive.

[Xtreme]

Still playing the deck. Though the changes in rulings affected it to some extent, it's not that dramatic anyway. A couple of lost isamarus is the difference in general.

Still trying to make up my mind on the green splash/ mono-w topic

[CleverPetriDish]

Basically D&T got megakill'd. It doesn't have insane karakas tricks, which was basically all that D&T could use to be competitive.

Sure it did.

I think Figure of Destiny is likely to be the real deal. If you just swap them for Stonecloakers or Flickerwisps, you should be fine.

[Ceridan]

Seems like most people that don´t know or play the deck says it got totally nerfed. Sure it´s bad to loose the Isamaru trick, besides that nothing really happened.

[beastman]

Wasn't the decks only real defense against zoo decks, and stuff like that to jump in and out of combat while stacking damage to pick off creatures?

[Ceridan]

Wasn't the decks only real defense against zoo decks, and stuff like that to jump in and out of combat while stacking damage to pick off creatures?

Isamaru deals 2 damage and that´s not enough to kill a Kird Ape, Wild Nactl or a goyf... you can still use the block-trick with karakas.

[beastman]

But without the ability to deal lethal with say, stonecloaker, then bounce him with flickerwisp after damage is stacked, doesnt it become a lot harder to deal with aggro? I mean I've played against the deck before, and the best thing going for it was random tricks and shit like that.

[CleverPetriDish]

Beastman, those sorts of tricks are important in that particular matchup, yes. But there are other resources such as mana denial, Jitte, Mangara, etc. It used to be a pretty good matchup. But I have not tried it out since Zoo got all the fancy good new critters to play with.

[ilovejess2]

Anyone else had a look at this list?

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=28092

What an interesting build. Thousand Year Elixir? I had to hover over that to read its rule text. Instant Mangara tricks sounds sexy to me, but it still doesn't look right. Too situational perhaps? The possibility of two Mangara activations in a turn is tempting. I don't like the fact that the deck has only one basic or the lack of love for Flickerwisp. I like the True Believer in the board and this is something I have kept in my "traditional" mono white despite it being unfashionable. The Canonist as a singleton in the board is also interesting.

[pandaman]

Beastman, those sorts of tricks are important in that particular matchup, yes. But there are other resources such as mana denial, Jitte, Mangara, etc. It used to be a pretty good matchup. But I have not tried it out since Zoo got all the fancy good new critters to play with.

I played Zoo twice in the past week with a stock standard list with no Cataclysm mainboard or sideboard. I got stomped 0-2 both games. I was never really in with a chance to win, I was always just holding on, holding on, waiting for something to save me off the top, but nothing decisive every came. I boarded in 4 Burrenton Forge-Tender 1 Oblivion Ring and 1 Jotun Grunt but it didn't help me stem the tide.

I don't think that the deck really has anything decisive to draw that will turn the tables against Zoo if you're behind. If damage still stacked I could have traded my Serra Avenger's for Wild Nacatl and Kird Ape because they were what killed me - I kept Tarmogoyf off with Mangara of Corondor. That rule change really hurts in that matchup, because you lose the ability to generate that important card advantage.

I think with the new rules changes Cataclysm may be necessary back in the deck to help the Zoo and other aggro match ups.

[scarlet_moon]

I think with the new rules changes Cataclysm may be necessary back in the deck to help the Zoo and other aggro match up.

I gave Stonecloaker the boat, because it sucks with Canonist and it sucks even more with m10. The lost gy-hate should be a smaller problem with 3-4 Goyfeating Grunts. Also, it hate drawing into Cloaker with an empty board... Here is my actual list:

land
11 Plains
4 Karakas
4 Rishadan Port
3 Flagstones of Trokair

creature
3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 Serra Avenger
4 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Jotun Grunt
4 Flickerwisp
3 Mangara of Corondor

artifact
4 Aether Vial
3 Umezawa’s Jitte

instant
4 Swords to Plowhshares

enchantment
3 Oblivion Ring

sorcery
3 Cataclysm

More love for Flickerwisp and more love for Canonist <3

[eq.firemind]

Yeah, Stonecloacker starts being not good enough with new rules... Here's my new list (I have Wish for GY-hate):

LANDS (21)
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Savannah
2 Karakas
1 Forest
6 Plains
The deck becomes a litte less manaintensive without 'Cloackers, so i'm testing 21 lands now

1-DROPS (15)
4 Aether Vial
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 Swords to Plowshares

2-DROPS (15)
3 Living Wish
3 Serra Avenger
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Jotun Grunt
2 Gaddock Teeg - Newcomer. I hate combo, I hate Landstill's 4-drops and I like random disconnects like Fireblast, Force of Will, EE, Chalice and Natural Order.
3 Umezawa's Jitte

3-DROPS (9)
2 Mangara of Corondor
3 Oblivion Ring
4 Flickerwisp - now full 4 'cause he's got more friends in Wishboard.

SIDEBOARD
1 Karakas
1 Mangara of Corondor
3 Orim's Chant
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Tivadar of Thorn - Great vs Goblins, not bad against -heavy decks, 'Wisp's good friend.
1 Harmonic Sliver - 'Wisp's good friend.
2 Krosan Grip - I hate Pernicious Deed, Humility, Shackeles,...
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender - Great vs Burn, good vs Dredge and sweepers
1 Kitchen Finks - Test dude vs Zoo 'cause he gives life and kills everything except 'Goyf. Also 'Wisp's good friend.
1 Jotun Grunt
1 Loaming Shaman - Test GY hate dude, 'Wisp's good friend.
1 Free Slot - Currently Figure of Destiny for some more beats, just don't know what to put here. Maybe Aven Mindcensor for Survival/NO decks (at least 1 each week in my local store)

Now, has anyone tried Kitchen Finks as anti-aggro creature in Stonecloscker's place (I mean traditional mono- builds)? The guy looks really promissing...

[tomjulioo]

...
2 Krosan Grip - I hate Pernicious Deed,
...

krosan sucks against deed because a good player will sack it at sorcery speed not giving you priority...

a friend of mine won a 27 player (5 rounds + top8) tournament with my D&T list yesterday:

3 isamaru
3 mangara
3 stonecloaker
4 Flickerwisp
4 Serra Avenger
4 Ethersworn Canonist

4 swords to plowshares
4 aether vial
3 umezawa's jitte
3 cataclysm
3 oblivion ring

10 Plains
4 Karakas
4 Rishadan Port
3 Flagstones of Trokair
1 eiganjo castle

side:
3 disenchant
4 orim chant
3 silver knight
3 relic of progenitus
2 ???can't remember!!!

he didn't lost a single round only giving a draw during the rounds after being 4-0
he beat me with ichorid 2-0 and won the finals against 43 lands 2-1

[Patrunkenphat7]

krosan sucks against deed because a good player will sack it at sorcery speed not giving you priority...

a friend of mine won a 27 player (5 rounds + top8) tournament with my D&T list yesterday:

3 isamaru
3 mangara
3 stonecloaker
4 Flickerwisp
4 Serra Avenger
4 Ethersworn Canonist

4 swords to plowshares
4 aether vial
3 umezawa's jitte
3 cataclysm
3 oblivion ring

10 Plains
4 Karakas
4 Rishadan Port
3 Flagstones of Trokair
1 eiganjo castle

side:
3 disenchant
4 orim chant
3 silver knight
3 relic of progenitus
2 ???can't remember!!!

he didn't lost a single round only giving a draw during the rounds after being 4-0
he beat me with ichorid 2-0 and won the finals against 43 lands 2-1

Is the Eiganjo Castle ever good? I feel like it would just get hated by nonbasic hate more than it would be good, but I would be interested in hearing if it were ever beneficial.

[eq.firemind]

krosan sucks against deed because a good player will sack it at sorcery speed not giving you priority...

Yeah, but in that case he'll need a hell lot of mana to wipe the board and my version is a little faster than mono-, so it works fine...

Is the Eiganjo Castle ever good? I feel like it would just get hated by nonbasic hate more than it would be good, but I would be interested in hearing if it were ever beneficial.

He run 10 basic Plains. That's quite descent number to not to fear Waste/Moon/Price much. And if they waste Castle, well, -1 Wasteland for Karakas.

[tomjulioo]

He run 10 basic Plains. That's quite descent number to not to fear Waste/Moon/Price much. And if they waste Castle, well, -1 Wasteland for Karakas.

true! that's the reason...
i've never had problems with wastelands...

[LegacyDan]

Yeah, Stonecloacker starts being not good enough with new rules... Here's my new list (I have Wish for GY-hate):

LANDS (21)
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Savannah
2 Karakas
1 Forest
6 Plains
The deck becomes a litte less manaintensive without 'Cloackers, so i'm testing 21 lands now

1-DROPS (15)
4 Aether Vial
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 Swords to Plowshares

2-DROPS (15)
3 Living Wish
3 Serra Avenger
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Jotun Grunt
2 Gaddock Teeg - Newcomer. I hate combo, I hate Landstill's 4-drops and I like random disconnects like Fireblast, Force of Will, EE, Chalice and Natural Order.
3 Umezawa's Jitte

3-DROPS (9)
2 Mangara of Corondor
3 Oblivion Ring
4 Flickerwisp - now full 4 'cause he's got more friends in Wishboard.

SIDEBOARD
1 Karakas
1 Mangara of Corondor
3 Orim's Chant
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Tivadar of Thorn - Great vs Goblins, not bad against red-heavy decks, 'Wisp's good friend.
1 Harmonic Sliver - 'Wisp's good friend.
2 Krosan Grip - I hate Pernicious Deed, Humility, Shackeles,...
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender - Great vs Burn, good vs Dredge and red sweepers
1 Kitchen Finks - Test dude vs Zoo 'cause he gives life and kills everything except 'Goyf. Also 'Wisp's good friend.
1 Jotun Grunt
1 Loaming Shaman - Test GY hate dude, 'Wisp's good friend.
1 Free Slot - Currently Figure of Destiny for some more beats, just don't know what to put here. Maybe Aven Mindcensor for Survival/NO decks (at least 1 each week in my local store)

So follow my thinking here for a second: in an effort to make the deck less mana intensive you removed the card that costs , which wasn't to much of an issue with vial usually sitting @ 3, for ADDING a second color (thus automatically making it more mana intensive by its very meaning and succeptable to the non-basic land screw that lots decks love using) and cards that cost , , and ?

I am VERY interested in your findings on this variation from your local tourney scene. I myself have found it to be, multicolored D+T decks that is, to be powerful but just not worth their cards slots when compared to the mono white classic. Your inclusion of Living Wish/Wishboard does catch my curiousity though.

[eq.firemind]

So follow my thinking here for a second: in an effort to make the deck less mana intensive you removed the card that costs , which wasn't to much of an issue with vial usually sitting @ 3, for ADDING a second color (thus automatically making it more mana intensive by its very meaning and succeptable to the non-basic land screw that lots decks love using) and cards that cost , , and ?

2 words: Noble Hierarch. That's the main reason to splash green. There are many many words some pages ago where I describe all my logic about how I built this deck.

I am VERY interested in your findings on this variation from your local tourney scene.

Hopefully my worktime will be less than 11 hours per day in September and I'll be able to play some tournaments.