[Deck] Ultimate Walker

[GGoober]

Red is good with REB in the side mostly. I've been trying out UWr Landstill as a thought experiment but it hasn't worked out better than UWb mostly because red doesn't improve the matchup that the deck is bad in, but red improves the matchup that the deck is good in, so I see it as a win-more change so didn't go with it.

Moss did post a wonderful contender to an Ultimate Walker list which plays green with Loam and Garruk. I think he posted it in the wrong thread lol. Life from the Loam justifies the use of Forbid even more with the green splash. Garruk is another mighty strong walker that, like Elspeth, protects himself.

[TheCramp]

I have to say, having sat facing down Ajani and watching helplessly getting tapped tapped tapped while my opponent sits with a growing hand of counter magic is frustrating in the extreme. I could have dealt with a dead goyf, or a stolen goyf many times. It does end in the control player winning outright too. "Neuter your goyf, oh and win turn seven."

[Misplayer]

In addition to "Why not Brainstorm," why red as the third color?

Don't get me wrong. I love Ajani Vengeant here. Locking down forces them to overextend. Repeated Helixes are sexy. But there's only one of these in the deck at the moment. And it and Fire//Ice don't seem like automatically enough to not explore Black, Green, or Just straight UW.

To build on this, in how many situations is Ajani Vengeant superior to Elspeth?

[ScatmanX]

To build on this, in how many situations is Ajani Vengeant superior to Elspeth?

I guess that few. Otherwise he woul´d not be running 2 Eslpeths and only 1 Ajani.

[johanessen]

What do you think about using Veteran Explorer as 1cc choice in this deck? It will help to get fast planeswalkers on board.

[bowvamp]

Speeding up the opponent that much, especially on their turn would not be the best idea. Getting planeswalkers on the board IS good, but is it good enough to let the opponent get two lands to use during their second mainphase?

[Mystical_Jackass]

If someone gets turn1-3 Blood Moon off, is this deck F'd?

[Citrus-God]

If someone gets turn1-3 Blood Moon off, is this deck F'd?

Who plays Blood Moon?

[Mystical_Jackass]

Dragon Stompy abuses it well, most other decks with red are gonna use it. Like choke & back to basics, its a pretty popular SB.

[Tacosnape]

I'd be tempted to run Black in this. I like the idea of Liliana Vess for the Jace/Liliana triple synergy (Both draw, they discard; Vampiric/Draw; Mill their deck/reanmiate all their guys;) And I like the idea of having Diabolic Edict here, as the less threats your opponents have on the board the better Planeswalkers can do their thing. Black also nets you new wish targets.

Green would add Garruk, who's less awesome without Standstill, as well as Grip in the wishboard, but probably nothing else really worth looking into.

Who plays Blood Moon?

Dragon Stompy, which will always re-emerge as a threat as long as people keep going "Who plays Blood Moon?"

[beastman]

I like Tacosnape bringing up black. Lilliana would be amazing in the control mirror.

[Mystical_Jackass]

You'd need help from ritual or Garruk to get her into play. Her mana cost is the only thing that holds her back. You'd have to completely retune your mana curve to pull that off, and I don't think it'd be fast enough to be effective. This is just my opinion, maybe I'm overlooking something ^.^ ...tangle wire?? (uh oh, here we go again :P)

[mossivo1986]

I'd be tempted to run Black in this. I like the idea of Liliana Vess for the Jace/Liliana triple synergy (Both draw, they discard; Vampiric/Draw; Mill their deck/reanmiate all their guys;) And I like the idea of having Diabolic Edict here, as the less threats your opponents have on the board the better Planeswalkers can do their thing. Black also nets you new wish targets.

Green would add Garruk, who's less awesome without Standstill, as well as Grip in the wishboard, but probably nothing else really worth looking into.



Dragon Stompy, which will always re-emerge as a threat as long as people keep going "Who plays Blood Moon?"

Taco you have the right Idea.

Heres a list ive been messing around with in my head:


UWg U.W.: A landstill port/ with cooler interactions

3 flooded
3 windswept
3 tundra
2 tropical island
1 savannah
3 plains
2 island
1 forest
3 mishra
1 tolaria
1 ruins
1 wasteland
1 nantuko monestary

4 force
4 snare
1 forbid

4 stp
3 ee
2 wrath
1 humility
1 disk

3 visions
3 top
3 brainstorm
1 jace

2 elspeth
1 eternal dragon

2 c wish
1 life from the loam
1 nev disk

board:

1 intuition
1 seed spark
1 e tutor
1 pulse
1 honor of the fallen
3 path
2 moat
3 negate
2 relic

Edit +1 E dragon +1 Nantuko monestary -1 forbid -1 garruck

[MTG-Fan]

Who plays Blood Moon?

Imperial Painter!

[Citrus-God]

Dragon Stompy, which will always re-emerge as a threat as long as people keep going "Who plays Blood Moon?"

Yes, but running into Dragon Stompy at a tournament is like running into Combo if you're playing Zoo; you're going to have to accept that loss if you crash into it, because the chances of crashing into those decks in a swiss round is pretty slim.

[Rinello]

Hi, I personally would try this:


2 Elspeth
2 Ajani Vengeant
3 Jace

4 Ancestral Vision
4 Brainstorm

4 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare

4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Pyroclasm
4 Fire / Ice
2 Humility
2 Wrath of God

4 Volcanic Island
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Hallowed Fountain

I think removal effect like WoG and Pyroclasm can buy us some time to drop a walker. This deck has few finishing moves but you can just drop a Humility and start doin 2x1 with Fire and wait for your Elspeth or Ajani.
I feel like Brainstorm is needed so this deck can consistently drop a land for 4 turns.
About the black version of this deck I think it deserves some testing, since that version has more sinergy between plainswalkers (and you can play more efficient fetches) different kind of SB (is plague and extirpate > than REB? ) but it loses some sinergy with the deck itself (Fire or Pyro with Humility is great) .
We should investigate a list with more sinergy and more consistency.
Can we add some Stifles for waste protection and Tempo gain?
Should we add some finishers like Genju of the Fields?
In my list should I add a Pyroclasm? Replacin what?
Anyway this deck looks new and intresting, I like this fresh design :)







SB :

right now is 4 Beb, 4 Reb, 2 Wing Shard , 3 Spree / Devastating Blow / Wipe Away / Rushing River ..

[Koby]

Would Firespout be a better fit instead of Pyroclasm here? It's a bit more expensive but allows you to deal with Nimble Mongoose, Kird Ape/Wild Nacatl, and the rare Tarmogoyf. Clearly it's less effective with Humility out, but you won't always have Humility out before you Pyro, and WoG is more expensive than both.

Actually, Slice & Dice might be an awesome addition to combo with Humility. On second thought, that's just as worse and still requires Humility. :(

@Rinello: Your deck is really geared to beating aggro. What is your plan against mid-range and combo?

[GGoober]

Moss list is perhaps the more fine-tuned list. There's really not too much justification to run Vengeant in an environment that is so fast. This is not T2 where you can afford the time. Vengeant is game winning against certain matchups, but in todays meta of growing Zoo/Merfolks, tapping one dude isn't going to help much.

Moss's list is nice in a sense that I think LftL >>> Crucible in terms of synergy with the deck. It grabs your extra cards for Forbid, and sets up wastelock, hits landdrops everyturn. Garruk is still a weak slot IMO. Garruk's staying and winning power is perhaps 40% when standing next to Elspeth. I personally like Liliana in Landstill, but I've never really played with a black heavy splash and 5cc is just terrible (win-more)

[Misplayer]

Moss list is perhaps the more fine-tuned list. There's really not too much justification to run Vengeant in an environment that is so fast. This is not T2 where you can afford the time. Vengeant is game winning against certain matchups, but in todays meta of growing Zoo/Merfolks, tapping one dude isn't going to help much.

Moss's list is nice in a sense that I think LftL >>> Crucible in terms of synergy with the deck. It grabs your extra cards for Forbid, and sets up wastelock, hits landdrops everyturn. Garruk is still a weak slot IMO. Garruk's staying and winning power is perhaps 40% when standing next to Elspeth. I personally like Liliana in Landstill, but I've never really played with a black heavy splash and 5cc is just terrible (win-more)

Mossivo's list (with the edits) is now Landstill with AV instead of Standstill and random Forbid/LftL tech.

A lot of the lists I'm seeing here seem to have Plansewalkers-for-the-sake-of-Planeswalkers. Personally, I'd play 3x Elspeth before playing 2/1 Elspeth/Vengeant or Elspeth/Garruck.

[Koby]

I would still only run 2 Elspeth. Drawing multiples is bad when she's working. Drawing multiples when she's can't survive more than a turn is just the same - she makes a token and fogs the turn. This doesn't help relieve the battlefield of attackers like Wrath of God would. 3rd WoG over 3rd Elspeth.