[Deck] Zoo

[tpnp]

Is 2x Chain Lightning really better than 2 more Helix? Or even a pair of Jittes? Maybe its just me loving lightning helix but personally Ive had more game saves from Helix than Chain ever gave me and Jitte is just solid.

Chain is also the only Sorcery in the deck which is probably why they were run, even as a two-of.

[jimmerz213]

I play Chain Lightning instead of Lightning Helix in my deck, because it simply costs 1 mana less, letting me drop another creature with the extra mana.
I never had any issues with aggro racing me for life, since you normaly have enough creatures. Jitte is more of a sideboard card when you face lots of Goblins or something like that in your meta.
Merfolk should never be a problem, even without Jittes.

I dont know about that. Sure, early game the 1 mana makes a bit of a difference, but late game in topdeck mode its irrelevant. And at that point, Id much rather have the 3 lifegain too, regardless of board position. People tend to run jitte SB but I cant seem to justify cutting it from the MB in my list. It just does what it does so well. I love the ability to clear their board with removing tokens (which saves burn for troublesome stuff or game wins) and at the absolute worst (this has happened once) I played one just to blow up one that was equipped on a wake thrasher on the other side of the table G1.

Chain is also the only Sorcery in the deck which is probably why they were run, even as a two-of.

I dont really buy that as a reason to run a card, especially as just a 2 of. If your going to make that arguement then it should probably be as a 4 of with no Helixes.

[DragoFireheart]

I really don't like chain. Sure, it's a sorcery speed lightning bolt, but helix will help out vs Storm decks as it forces them to build up a higher storm count.

[jimmerz213]

I really don't like chain. Sure, it's a sorcery speed lightning bolt, but helix will help out vs Storm decks as it forces them to build up a higher storm count.

Not to mention, but casting it in response to them doing a storm 10 tendrils is pretty funny.

[DragoFireheart]

Not to mention, but casting it in response to them doing a storm 10 tendrils is pretty funny.

Yeah, that would be pretty funny.


Also, there is a rare chance that someone can bounce the CL back at you (though I doubt it's that relevant all of the time). The fact that it's sorcery speed is what puts me off of using CL.

[hungryLIKEALION]

In an older version of my zoo list when I was still running hellspark I would have run chain in addition to helix, but I will not cut helix from my deck now. The 3 life is awesome in the mirror and against pretty much any deck in the format. Yeah it costs an extra mana, but I think it's worth it for the better card.

[DragoFireheart]

So what's the verdict on Kird Ape? Is he still worth running, or is he too small in Gofy world?

[Seb]

I think that with the recent demise of Mogg Fanatic, Kird Ape can indeed have a spot in zoo, even if it's just a bad Nacatl.

My usual creature base for Zoo is :
4 x Grim Lavamancer
4 x Wild Nacatl
4 x Kird Ape
4 x Tarmogoyf
4 x Qasali Pridemage

[Valtrix]

I very much want to put this deck together; however, I want to come up with a fairly strong list before I invest in the final parts for it. As such I'm very interested in doing a good deal of testing for this deck (albeit on MWS, since I don't know of anything better). If anybody would like to help, by either piloting either zoo or the decks to test against, please send me a PM and/or contact me on AIM. We can talk from there on how to go about it. Thanks.

[hungryLIKEALION]

I constantly cut Kird Ape and then re-add him. I think my final thoughts on the subject now are that while he does kind of suck, not having him to play on turn 1 sucks more.

[B is for Big Job]

Yep, hes one of those guys that you want in the first few turns and then when you top deck him late game instead of a burn spell for the win its like, fucking kird ape.

[keys]

I'm about finished building Zoo and I just wanted to post my list, so if there are any glaring mistakes someone please point them out. It's a pretty standard list:

4 Kird Ape
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Grim Lavamancer
2 Woolly Thoctar
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Chain Lightning
3 Lightning Helix
2 Magma Jet
3 Fireblast
3 Path to Exile

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
3 Taiga
3 Plateau
2 Savannah
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains

Sideboard:
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Vexing Shusher
3 Krosan Grip
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Relic of Progenitus

Should the Horizon Canopy be a Bloodstained Mire?

[Svenyboy]

Here is a Zoo deck from a friend of mine:

Creature:
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Knight of the Reliquary

Instant:
3 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
3 Price of Progress

Sorcery:
4 Chain Lightning

Land:
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Winswepth Heath
3 Taiga
3 Plateau
2 Savannah
2 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Forest

-> With Knight we have a big thread in mid and late game. And i think that's to way to go to get a bigger creature as goyf and Stalker. Furthermore he has got a great synergie with Grim Lavamancer because he fills our GY and we have more food for Lavamancer. (We take for example Bolt and Jet for Lavamancer and all Landcards stay in the GY to pump our Knight). I want to play 1 Terravore but he isn't necessary because Knight and goyf are bigger and he is to expensive in different to Knight (Knight is 2/2 without land cards, gravehate wouldn't make problems, but Terravore would die).
I have cut 1 Fireblast and 1 PoP for the Knight. I think Blast and PoP are good Finisher but they make problems with our Manabase. Thats the reason to play 3 and not the playset and the slot is free for our Knight.
I'm testing the list with 4 Lightning Helix for 4 Chain Lightning but it's to slow for an Burnspell in my opinion.

Greets Sven.

[jimmerz213]

@Keys
The deck looks good, its burn heavy which some people like more than the more creature aggro type. The only thing Im worried about is Fireblast. Certain decks are probably going to deny you some mana source (given how burn heavy yours is, I wouldnt be surprised if they chose red). Have you ever found yourself with one of them dead in your hand because you only had one mountain or none at all? Any particular reason to run Thoctar over KoR? To me, the Knight would fix any issue you had keeping red out (for fireblast) and not requiring that very color would also give you the edge in casting him if someone did deny you it.
As for the fetch..Ive never been a fan of Mire's in Naya Zoo. The black side does you no good. The canopy would probably be the better play imo.

@Bitchtoken
Same kind of deal it looks like, burn heavy. You only have white in the Knight/Pridemage why no Swords/PtE? It will outperform any burn spell all day (as for being a 1 for 1). Im not 100% sold on fireblast either. In sligh, definitely since you have a ton of mountains, but in Zoo..I just dont know. Also, probably influenced by my meta (very few non basics aside from mine) I dont like PoP main deck. But then again, thats probably a meta call. I play in a rather...janky one. Chain is definitely too slow (as you said). Thats the spell I could see cut for 4 Swords/PtE. Oh and what about equipment? Jitte is a house with this deck, SB or MB is your choice but I strongly urge it.

[J.V.]

In my recent testing with Zoo, the card I never want to see has been Chain Lightning, the fact that it is sorcery speed has actually got me to the point of cutting it, this is the list I'm currently playing...
Lands:21
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Taiga
3 Plateau
2 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains

Creatures:22
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nactal
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Kird Ape
4 Grim Lavamancer
2 Vexing Shusher

Noncreature Spells:17
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Path to Exile
3 Price of Progress
2 Fireblast

Sideboard:15
3 Krosan Grip
3 Volcanic Fallout
2 Choke
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Price of Progress

[Svenyboy]

4 Qasali Pridemage and 2 Vexing Shusher are defenetly to much for main. I would cut the Shusher and play more beater like Woolly Thoctar or Knight of the Reliquary. Maybe a onedrop with Isamaru. Furthermore I would play more Burn because you have then more food for your Lavamancer because PtoExile can be a dead card (Fastcombo etc.).

[ShadowOfTitans]

I am putting this deck together for legacy since I play a standard version of it, and it is a lot of fun. I do have a few questions about it (and yes I did read almost the entire thread first).

1. Is ranger of eos too slow for this format/deck? I like that it can search out threats if you start to run out of gas in the midgame against control decks. I saw very little mention of him in the thread, so I'm assuming he doesn't merit space in this format.

2. If my list is playing both lavamancer and jotun grunt, is tarmogoyf as strong here as he is in most other decks? (I want to run them, but honestly being back in the game for a month, the price he is at is a little nauseating.) I fully understand that a deck without tarmo won't be as effective as one with the full 4 copies.

3. A lot of lists seem to be running 1 or 2 of Gaddock in the board, how effective is that number without any way to draw additional cards or tutor/search him up in any way?

This is really a very interesting deck, and look forward to seeing it develop more as more sets are released.

Thanks in advance
SoT

[jimmerz213]

1. Is ranger of eos too slow for this format/deck? I like that it can search out threats if you start to run out of gas in the midgame against control decks. I saw very little mention of him in the thread, so I'm assuming he doesn't merit space in this format.

He is a really interesting card. Ive been toying with the idea of running him as a 2 of but Im still skeptical. We only really started discussing him recently (thats why he hasnt been mentioned much) but that doesnt mean hes not good. Granted, a 3/2 for 4 is usually bad, but the guaranteed creatures is nice. Its iffy, and probably will ultimately come down to your play style, but I kinda see him as a 30% chance.

2. If my list is playing both lavamancer and jotun grunt, is tarmogoyf as strong here as he is in most other decks? (I want to run them, but honestly being back in the game for a month, the price he is at is a little nauseating.) I fully understand that a deck without tarmo won't be as effective as one with the full 4 copies.

No...goyf...huh? I kid, I kid. I have actually been siding out my Goyfs for a set of Grunts lately it seems like. The opponent never expects it and if they are running goyfs, they really help neuter them. If you are going to play without Goyfs, its not the end of the world. It just might make some games a little rougher. Running both lavamancer and grunts is going to be very GY intensive though, it could prove to be a bit much.

3. A lot of lists seem to be running 1 or 2 of Gaddock in the board, how effective is that number without any way to draw additional cards or tutor/search him up in any way?

One thing this deck lacks is tutoring, your totally right. I have seen a lot more lists running Sylvan library lately, you may want to look into that. Its a solid card since the life you loose for holding a card can easily be negated by Helix and Jitte. Without Library though, I have had a hard time finding those clutch cards in the past. I run chants in the SB and I had to rely on some epic top decking to win a storm matchup.


Hope that helps!

[georgjorge]

Anyone tried playing Mold Adder instead of Kird Ape in the main ? Ape only beats for two, and while Mold Adder sometimes will remain a 1/1, against most of the decks in the format it will attack for two on the second turn, and have the potential to outgrow the other creatures shortly afterwards. It all depends on your meta of course, but just looking at the DTB, there isn't much that doesn't play either blue or black, and even one or two blue/black spells are enough to make it an efficient beater...

[sauce]

a definite 2/3 vs a maybe 2/2 seems pretty easy to pick the 2/3 over it.
kird ape is probably one of the best creature 1 drops in the format, not in the same league as mold adder, which is situational/crappy.