[Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

[J.V.]

As far as I know Gerry Tompson made top 8 with 4c Intuition Control (not ITF)

On a side note I played Ugr Dreadstill and went 5-2
Round 1: Merfolk, Loss:1-2 (He may have top 8'd he was 5-1 going into the last round)
Round 2: Merfolk, Won 2-0
Round 3: Mono Green Stompy, Won 2-0
Round 4: [Brassman] NLBrass, Lost 0-2 (despite being an 0-2 loss both games were insanely close, some of the funnest magic I've ever played!)
Round 5: Reanimator, Won 2-0
Round 6: [Slay] Zoo, Won 2-0
Round 7: Mirrorish, Won 2-1

Here is the list I played:
Lands:21
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
3 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
3 Island

Creatures:9
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
2 Trinket Mage

Noncreature Spells:30
4 Force of Will
4 Counterbalance
4 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Standstill
3 Spell Snare
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Daze
1 Trickbind

Sideboard:15
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Firespout
3 Krosan Grip
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Pithing Needle

Post Tournament Conclusions:
The Main deck is damn near optimal, The only change that I keep going back an forth between is cutting a Factory for a 3rd Flooded Strand, or Leaving the 4th Factory in, I'm not entirely sure yet.

As for the sideboard, Lightning Bolt was UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLE! It was excellent against Zoo and Merfolk.

Pithing Needle on the other hand was extremely underwhelming. I'm not sure what those two slots are going to be, they may go back to being Graveyard hate, but as I stated earlier, I'm not sure they're necessary.

[AngryTroll]

Sideboard:15
4 Lightning Bolt

As for the sideboard, Lightning Bolt was UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLE! It was excellent against Zoo and Merfolk.

How do you board for Bolt against Zoo and Merfolk? I imagine you need to find room for 4 Bolt and 3 Firespout...so out come the 3 Standstills, and what else?

[whienot]

Your main has 57 cards. Is Spell Snare the missing 3 of?

I'm glad the bolts worked well.

[J.V.]

Your main has 57 cards. Is Spell Snare the missing 3 of?

I'm glad the bolts worked well.

Yes, fixed.

How do you board for Bolt against Zoo and Merfolk? I imagine you need to find room for 4 Bolt and 3 Firespout...so out come the 3 Standstills, and what else?

Merfolk:
-1 Phyrexian Dreadnought
-1 Trinket Mage
-2 Counterbalance
-1 Sensei's Divining Top
-3 Standstill
-1 Spell Snare [2 on the play]
-1 Engineered Explosives
-2 Daze [1 on the play]
+3 Red Elemental Blast
+3 Firespout
+4 Lightning Bolt
+2 Pithing Needle

Zoo:
-2 Daze
-2 Phyrexian Dreadnought
-1 Trickbind
-1 Spell Snare
-1 Engineered Explosives
+4 Lightning Bolt
+3 Firespout

[deadlock]

Concerning the Ugr sideboard, mine looks like this currently:

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [SHM] Firespout
SB: 3 [B] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [M10] Lightning Bolt

The question is about the Lightning Bolt slot, i really like it, but i was advised to play Fire/ Ice in this slot.
Against Zoo and Dragon Stompy Bolt is stronger. F/I has the advantage that it is more versatile, is blue and has cmc 2 for CB - thoughts?

I noticed that people play 5-6 fetches, which is not enough in my opinion. While its nice to have 3-4 basic land, it can screw you out of your splash colours quite badly. Personally i would go for 2 basic Island and 7-8 Fetches (depending on the number of Volcanic Island, which depends on F/I or Bolt in the board).

EDIT: Another thing: How would you sideboard against Bant Survival considering my sideboard? I definitely want to bring in in Firespout, which kills most of his guys - including the hate bears.
Now where i am not sure is, if i should bring in Krosan Grip. It only hits Survival (quite important), but i fear i can be dead at times. As i still could deal with Sotf with two Trinket Mages -> EE (maybe with the second EE from the board - i only play one in the maindeck).
Also, what to bring out, i definitely cut a Nought and maybe a Stifle effect (hesitating here, because it may be the best answer to Pridemage), due to the combination of StP / Pridemage / Grip from his side, but what else? I dont consider keeping both Trinket Mages and adding Grip and Spout from the board to be an option, it gets too clunky (too many cmc3 with CB in mind).

[Tangle.Wire]

I play this Deck actually without Standstills, i played the UGW Dreadstill version a long time and figured out that playing Standstill at any point of the Game where your opponent knows about the Dreadnought Plan they will just block/wasteland your factories and wait until they draw answers to the Dreadnought. Also Ponder does nearly the same job as u want to draw the Stifle/Dreadnought or more Threats/Counter u also reach them with ponder.

In fact i could board out Standstills or the Dreadnoughts themselves but i never liked that idea pretty much.

For counterbalance i know how broken this card can get at least with the top on the board but after some games i had the feeling i never wanted to drop the balance on turn 2-3 even with counterbackup cause diruption seemed to be more important than playing the counterbalance slowing down the deck and needed to be protected as well. (the most things which remove the balance dont get countered by itself)

When i started playing the UGR list i feld like playing a similar strategy like Canadian ThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh feels pretty good to me as u got perfect answers to aggrodecks with Fire//Ice, Firespout and Lightning Bolt also Pyroblasts for the Countermatchup, also depended on the meta Blood Moon or Magus of the Moon could be able to reach the sideboard against landstill (as i played without factories a for some time)

after all i came up with this list:

4 Tarmogoyf
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
2 Trinket mage

4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Spell Snare
4 Fire//Ice
1 Firespout
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Crucible of Worlds

3 Mishras factory
4 Wasteland
3 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
4 Tropical Island
4 Volcanic Island

Sideboard:

4 Pyroblast
2 Pithing Needle
2 Krosan Grip
2 Firespout
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormods Crypt

The manabase is pretty riskant without any basicland maybe ill cut a factory for an island cause i never really fetched for a mountain or forest.

For the Mainboard some things are a bit weird on the paperlist but performed very good on playing the deck. Crucible saves the own Manabase while the Wastelock can slow down the mid-lategames also recurring factories are not bad at all.
Playing without Counterbalance/Top i nearly play full Playsets of Daze,Spell Snare and FoW which is enough for the mainboard keeping in mind that 4 Pyroblast can be added against Countermatchups postboard i never missed the Manaintensive Balance/Top engine very much.

[FoolofaTook]

If you don't play Counterbalance you give up the excellent storm combo matchup, turning it into an iffy pairing. You're probably also going to have more trouble against midrange blue control, although the 12 counters will help a bit in that matchup.

It's still a decent deck, because any deck running that much blue + goyf + nought is going to be decent.

[keys]

'Nought is way too vulnerable without Counterbalance to (a) protect it, and (b) make up for the card disadvantage.

[Tangle.Wire]

I agree about the power of counterbalance for the mid-lategame but how can i compare it to my list without cutting the burn? i really would like to play at least 4-5 Burn Spells like Fire//Ice or even 1-2 Firespout in the maindeck. What would u say about this:

3 Dreadnought
2 Trinkets
4 Goofy

3 Counterbalance
3 Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
1 Reality Ripple
1 Engineered explosives
1 Firespout
3 Ponder
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare
4 Daze
4 Stifle

Sideboard:

4 Pyroblast
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Pithing Needle
2 Firespout
2 Krosan Grip
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Counterbalance


I found Reality ripple yesterday between my crap cards and figured out that it more usefull than a trickbind, i never needed the split second cause i only try to play the dreadnought if i feel save anyway, but the ripple can also be used for dreadnought, protect own permanents or like a bounce spell on the opponents permanent. I think targeting enchantments could be missed but i can board grips for this problem and ripple can also disrupt by phasing an opponents land out on the early game.

-> How could the mainboard be fixed to get at least 1 firespout and 3-4 Fire//Ice main?

[Wasteland]

Trickbind is far superior then Vision Charm or Relity Ripple cause of the additional Land-Destruction-plan

[Tangle.Wire]

Trickbind is far superior then Vision Charm or Relity Ripple cause of the additional Land-Destruction-plan

As i said, trickbind is not bad at all but i never needed the split second and the ripple seems much more useable to me than charm or trickbind, i cant remember ever played trickbind for the LD strategy cause i trusted in the split second for the dreadnought.

[J.V.]

I have to agree with Wasteland, Ripple Reality is terrible, Trickbind is just better.

[pippo84]

J.V. You said that Lightning Bolt was great, so why don't you try and squeeze some in the Main Board?
Btw I tried the white version of the deck for a while, at the beginning it was really good, but in the end I switched back to UGR..

[keys]

J.V. You said that Lightning Bolt was great, so why don't you try and squeeze some in the Main Board?
Btw I tried the white version of the deck for a while, at the beginning it was really good, but in the end I switched back to UGR..

Rich Shay's build which placed 3rd at SCG 5k played 2 Bolts and 1 Fire//Ice maindeck in the Spell Snare spots. I like that swap a lot.

[jazzykat]

With the amount of the format preparing for CB with Grip, and Qusali Pridemages running around in large numbers don't you guys feel strongly hated. I stopped playing this deck about 6 months ago because all the grips and spot removal.dec's were slaughtering me?

[Tangle.Wire]

With the amount of the format preparing for CB with Grip, and Qusali Pridemages running around in large numbers don't you guys feel strongly hated. I stopped playing this deck about 6 months ago because all the grips and spot removal.dec's were slaughtering me?

Thats one of the reasons i thought of cutting the counterbalance, i think 2 top/3 Counterbalance wouldnt work as well so why not cut the balance completely? The opponent normally will fear it on the first game as everyone plays it on this deckversions so we could just bluff. Cutting the CB engine would leave us 6-8 Slots for Lightning bolts, Grips, Fire//Ice for the Maindeck without cutting to much spells around. As i said i have a good feeling just playing 3-4 Snares 4 Daze and 4 FoW in the Maindeck comparing 4-6 Red/Pyroblasts in the Sideboard.

This is my current list with Counterbalance, i think it would be a much more vunerable with 4 Bolts a Grip and a third Spell Snare in the maindeck.

3 Dreadnought
4 Goofy
2 Trinkets

4 Fire//Ice (i really love em but u have to play 4 if u do)
3 Counterbalance
3 Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
2 Ponder
1 Engineered explosives

Sideboard:

1 Spell Snare
4 Pyroblast
1 engineered explosives
2 Tormods Crypt
2 Pithing Needle
3 Firespout
2 Krosan Grip


I decided to cut ripple/trickbind complete as i never needed them, i would like to play maybe 1 spell that could bounce all kind of permanents but i dont really want to cut anymore spells at least maybe a ponder

Am i right that pithing needle also works on planeswalkers?


-> What you guys think about the counter set up of Snares/Daze i think i dont really relay on Spell Snare on the first game so i can board in the 3 Snare for a Daze? for second game as i know if i need snares at all.

-> I saw a lot of lists running only 2 daze, do you think it would be possible to cut daze complete maybe for L. Bolts or just a Playset of Spell Snares? if i play Daze i always wanted to have 3-4 to draw them nearly each game cause as you know they suck if you draw them on lategame. But i also think Daze is one of the best threats to win a counterduell to force in a Dreadnought/Stifle or Counterbalance.

[keys]

With the amount of the format preparing for CB with Grip, and Qusali Pridemages running around in large numbers don't you guys feel strongly hated. I stopped playing this deck about 6 months ago because all the grips and spot removal.dec's were slaughtering me?

Pridemage is a beating but there are always answers to him in burn or counter, and normally you want to take out 1-2 Noughts if you expect Grip from the SB.

[Tangle.Wire]

Pridemage is a beating but there are always answers to him in burn or counter, and normally you want to take out 1-2 Noughts if you expect Grip from the SB.

but normally they board 2-3 grip, one will try to kill counterbalance so they will have 2 grips vs 3 Dreadnougth thats why i dont board out the noughts in fact it depends a bit on the decks your facing.

[Rood]

If we're going to cut CB/Top and go Tempo-Dreadstill considering you're definetally going to see a lot of Merfolk and Zoo in pretty much any meta you see these days I think this would be close to optimal

// Lands
3 [A] Tropical Island
3 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (2)
4 [TE] Wasteland
3 [APL] Island (3)
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [U] Volcanic Island

// Creatures
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought

// Spells
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
3 [BD] Lightning Bolt
3 [SHM] Firespout
4 [NE] Daze
4 [SC] Stifle
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [OD] Standstill
4 [5E] Brainstorm
1 [TSP] Trickbind

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [DIS] Spell Snare
SB: 2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [4E] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 2 [TSP] Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 [SHM] Firespout
SB: 2 [FD] Crucible of Worlds

[Tangle.Wire]

If we're going to cut CB/Top and go Tempo-Dreadstill considering you're definetally going to see a lot of Merfolk and Zoo in pretty much any meta you see these days I think this would be close to optimal

// Lands
3 [A] Tropical Island
3 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (2)
4 [TE] Wasteland
3 [APL] Island (3)
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [U] Volcanic Island

// Creatures
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought

// Spells
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
3 [BD] Lightning Bolt
3 [SHM] Firespout
4 [NE] Daze
4 [SC] Stifle
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [OD] Standstill
4 [5E] Brainstorm
1 [TSP] Trickbind

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [DIS] Spell Snare
SB: 2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [4E] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 2 [TSP] Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 [SHM] Firespout
SB: 2 [FD] Crucible of Worlds

I agree nearly your complete list, but if we play Aggro/Tempo Dreadstill the Standstills will hinder ourself cause the strategy should be more like the disrupt/knockout plan of Canadian ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh. I think changing Standstills to ponder and cutting the factories to 2 would be optimal, also Fire//Ice will be needed, but it wont be a problem due your list as you can cut the blue elemental blast in the sideboard and change em to firespout so u got slots to fill up in the Maindeck with fire//ice and the 4th bolt. I like cruibles in this list as i played em by myself a long time keeping the manabase low for the midgame to hold the speed of the own deck.

-> the graveyard hate slots can be cutted on 2 crypt, as i never tried to win against dredge by the graveyard hate it doenst mean much if you play 2-4.

-> I miss the 4 Pyroblast/Red elemental blast in the sideboard, they are a must if we decide to play without counterbalance i personally think about playing a 3/2 or 3/3 split of the Blasts as they are needed against nearly every matchup containing blue.


Afterall the List looks pretty solid without the changes i would take, in fact i think the strategy without counterbalance will perform much more amasing than the 0815 build, i also thought about playing a list which could change into the normal tempo ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh after boarding but 4 mongoose would take to many slots and i dont wanna cut goofy, but boarding out 3 dreadnoughts for 3 mongoose could swing around the hole boarding strategy of our opponent as they normally will board hate against dreadnoughts/counterbalance (even if they didnt see them cause everyone expects em) but those spells wont find targets at all after boarding.