About Sylvan Library.. 2 is the correct number,Ive tested it out quite good.
U dont want to see 2 copies in a game since it will just be a dead card.
If you however dont draw library its not bad either since u dont need it to win.
Canopy is good but after alot of testing running 3canopys is not that good.
U have alot of hands with 2lands in ur opening hand,where a (2)nd fetch would be way better. The cycling is nice ofcourse,but if that makes ur mana base/kird apes/nacatl sucky at times,its definatly not worth it.
I run this as mana base:
4 windswepth heath
4 wooded foothills
2 bloodstained mire
3 taiga
3 plateau
1 savannah
1 forest
1 mountain
1 plains
1 canopy
and find it to be the best. Remember more fetches is always better for lavamancer/library/thinning out deck. And I dont think stifle is an valid argument to run less fetch.
The single canopy is for when you have a knight into play,and want to make him bigger.
I like that manabase. I ran Canopy as a 1of when i first started running Pulp's original list. It just got to the point where i found myself being fucked over with like a fetch and a Canopy opening hand, and it happened too many times.Originally Posted by rancOr_
Yeah, Stifle is being run less and less these days. Which i don't mind at all. Less Naughts and LD packages.
Well i mean the extra fetch would pump the Knight anyway ya know?
Dead or Alive, you're coming with me.
-Robocop-
^^This is important because the knight needs to be as fat as possible before you go and spend all three of your mana on him.
I plan to run a more burn oriented build with 21 lands - 17 crits - 22 spells. I'm wondering why people are moving away from Magma Jet though I have always found it excellent and it's only getting better with the addition of Sylvan Library? In many builds it is even being cut before Lightning Helix.
Magma Jet isnt a bad card at all,but why many builds play lightning helix over jet is just because its 3dmge instead of 2. Thats a big difference i.e playing against merfolk taking out lords, or LH + grim lavamancer tap.
Well, more fetches makes up for it with sylvan. If top 3 cards suck (i know thats hard to do, but tripple lands are ftl) fetch and then be down 2 lands and next turn see the nuts. Compared to jet, its a permanent source of advantage that nets you more whereas jet is just a 1 time thing does. Jet is good but sylvan just does a better job. Also helps pump goyf too if you lose one :D
Ever since ive been playing zoo ive had 2 library in my list. It has won me games when ive been in topdeck mode and needed a creature, burn spell or some removal. I remember one game thanks to having a few fetches and bad shuffling I managed to get 4 goyfs in play in about 6 turns. I won the match heh. Also if you run helix it just makes you want to draw more cards, we are the aggro deck here arent we :D
/thread
I second both of these. Library is great, but at the same time I don't think we can afford to draw dead cards. I find that playing 3 copies of cards that I don't want multiples of screws me over too much.
Something that people also forget about library is that the number one removal in this format is swords to plowshares. You know what library says about that? Well, it means that essentially any creature removed just cantrips, which can be horrible for your opponent to deal with.
Also one canopy is good, but I think canopy should only be run as your 21st land only if you're playing knight to both have the draw option, to also help fight LD, and consistently actually get to 3 mana.
I think gargadon has already been talked about enough, but I don't think he's worth running either. He's big, but we don't have a way to abuse his ability, and he's not actually aggressive.
@Jandax:I really think you should run at least 3 krosan grip in the board. Sure, you have pridemage, but you really want the extra help vs. countertop. In addition, I love having 7+ forms of artifact/enchantment hate in the board, because it makes matchups where it's relevant a joke.
I know a lot of people like magma jet too, but really I can't bring myself to pay 2 mana for 2 damage, even if I get to scry 2.
Is 21 now the generally accepted land count?
I always thought it should be 20 if you're running 0-1 Canopy, and 21 if you're running 2-3 canopy.
It's getting cut before Lightning Helix because Lightning Helix is a far better spell. Magma Jet is a vastly overcosted burn spell with a terrible library manipulation effect attached. If you want manipulation, sylvan is vastly superior, and both are not necessary.
As a large supporter of canopy in zoo, I feel the need to defend it. The thing about canopy is that it lets you run 21 or 22 lands without fearing mana flood. You're not playing canopy instead of an R producing land; You're playing instead of a B-list spell, so that you have better mana consistency. If you open a hand with a fetch and a canopy, it would have been 1 fetch as your only land if not for the canopy (And personally, I do not mind 1 fetch 1 canopy hands. They're usually pretty easy keeps.) I would NEVER run 21 lands in zoo without some of them being canopies, because you'll lose too many games to mana flood.
I've been playing with 3 canopy for a while now and like them. My list does need an update, however. I need to fit Library in there somewhere, haven't decided where yet.
Why is Magma Jet even being discussed? Yes, I can understand an endless argument about Swords vs Path, but Magma Jet? The spell is so god awful in the meta when you consider that it won't kill anything worthwhile, it's damage to mana spent is horrific and is ok top deck... but for this deck, this is a very bad top deck. With only so few slots for beaters and burn, we want the best of the best, and the scry effect on a over-costed shock isn't something this deck wants or needs.
+1
The problem I have with Canopy is that it slows down the deck. It's a lot more difficult to Price of Progress/Fireblast for the win on turn four when you only have 1 mountain. That tends to happen more than I'd like when I play with it. I like playing with only 3 non-red sources:
4 Heath
4 Foothills
2 Mire
3 Taiga
3 Plateau
1 Savannah
3 basics
The extra fetches bring lavamancer online faster as well.
I've always ran 21 lands, and without Canopy, and with Library, it doesn't seem too bad either. I cut down a land for a Chain Lightning, and found myself being mana fucked from Sinkhole/Waste, and that hardly ever happens with the extra land, so i went back up to 21.
What really ticked me off was that my opponent's were Waste-ing my white sources. My Savannahs. And my hand was full of white spells. I guess the people in my meta actually either A: Check my decks out on here, or B: Are noobs and decided to Waste my white not red source. It pissed me off bad.
And i love maximizing fetchlands. I don't run Lavamancer or Fireblast and i still run 9, and i might move it up to 10.
Dead or Alive, you're coming with me.
-Robocop-
I don't run fireblast, but I never have trouble fueling lavamancer, and I think it's absurd to say canopy slows the deck down. If you're aiming for consisten turn 4 PoP/Fireblast kills, you're playing goyfsligh, not zoo. Now, Library may well be good enough to make 21 lands with no canopies playable. I haven't tested it. I just picked up my libraries today on my way home from work, so I'll start testing it now. However, I feel that if you're already running KoTR, you should have at least one canopy in the deck.
All I'm really saying is that you shouldn't be so fast to write off canopy completely.
I just have to say how horribly skewed MWS seems to be with playtesting. Living in China, it's the only way I can test decks and it seems to really give horribly inaccurate draws. I'm running 3 Sylvan Library and after about 10 matches haven't drawn into one!
Who says the Internet isn't full of <3?
I've got a general question on the deck:
Is it viable to run Lavamancer in a creature heavy list? (20+)
You just discovered how truly awful MWS is.
Next step is to discover that if you tune your deck to work masterfully on MWS, you will be horribly skewed in real life.
Maybe I should just build an EDH deck and stick to that. Nothing more inconsistent and random than highlander/singleton!You just discovered how truly awful MWS is.
Next step is to discover that if you tune your deck to work masterfully on MWS, you will be horribly skewed in real life.
Who says the Internet isn't full of <3?
I say yes. I run I think 23 creatures right now and don't have much trouble fueling him. As long as you run 9 or more fetch lands, it shouldn't be a problem.
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