[Deck] Merfolk

[Nightmare]

Kataki, War's Wage is pretty good too, I hear.

Obviously in the White splash.

[Shriekmaw]

Kataki, War's Wage is pretty good too, I hear.

Obviously in the White splash.

I will agree that Kataki is pretty good against affinity, but that would require you splashing white in merfolk. I still think if you want to splash a color then green is the better choice for goyf maindeck and better sideboard answers to some of the tougher matchups.

I do wish this deck does go away because the people that end up using playing this deck doesn't have a clue about the legacy format, they just know this deck is good.

Also, I hear this deck just auto loses to red decks. :)

[Raindown]

I do wish this deck does go away because the people that end up using playing this deck doesn't have a clue about the legacy format, they just know this deck is good.

I agree, but with that new M10 folk, I think this will be around for a while. If it is, it sadly might be the next deck I build

[lorddotm]

Kataki, War's Wage is pretty good too, I hear.

Obviously in the White splash.

I run him in monoblue, he kicks fuckin ass.

[akiratheoni]

Whoa, that's a lot of replies for just my one request. Thanks guys, I think I'll pick up some Hurkyl's Recall. I'm saving up money to complete my Survival deck so I can't afford to do a white splash at this point. But when I do manage to get those Tundras and Flooded Strands/Polluted Delta, I will definitely run Kataki, but I do want to get those Mutavaults first as well (Only running Factories at this point).

Also, I hear this deck just auto loses to red decks. :)

In my experience, it does... my brother runs Goyf Sligh (this is why I can't run a green splash for Goyf cause he has them) and I lose 4 out of 5 games pretty much. Only time I can beat him is if i can get out a Aether Vial -> Standstill with a Factory out in play first and second turn. Post-board should be a better matchup but Kira, Great Glass Spinner doesn't work as well as I hoped again burn(it does wonders against decks that run only Swords or Path, though). I also put in Chills but I never draw them :(

One time I sideboarded in Kira without him knowing and when I cast her, he got all pissed at me. It was funny.

[_erbs_]

Kira, Great Glass Spinner doesn't work as well as I hoped again burn(it does wonders against decks that run only Swords or Path, though). I also put in Chills but I never draw them :(

One time I sideboarded in Kira without him knowing and when I cast her, he got all pissed at me. It was funny.

Hello,
May i ask how many did you used when you ran kira's and why didn't do well ?

I too in my mono is really having a hard time against zoo and any decks that run red. (lightning bolts, fire ice, etc.)

thanks

[akiratheoni]

Hello,
May i ask how many did you used when you ran kira's and why didn't do well ?

I too in my mono is really having a hard time against zoo and any decks that run red. (lightning bolts, fire ice, etc.)

thanks

I'm running two Kiras. It's not that Kira was ineffective, but it's just that burn always has at least two spells or something of the sort (Grim Lavamancer and Seal of Fire come to mind) to get rid of the Kira and then continue burning off the guys.

Where Kira IS effective is when the deck you're playing has only one or two sets of removal. For example, I played against Landstill, and I dropped Kira. My opponent could do nothing since he needed to Swords/Path Kira TWICE then he can start killing off my guys one by one. That would mean he would need three Swords/Paths to do this effectively. He needed to dig for his Wrath of God which he spent the entire game trying unsuccessfully.

I think Zoo/burn has too much removal for Kira to be really, really good. But I don't think it's a bad sideboard card. Just beware of Merfolk Sovereign's ability as well as Umezawa's Jitte if you sideboard in Kira, because you'll need to pay the equip cost twice for Jitte and stuff.

[_erbs_]

Would bumping kira to 3 help against burn matchups if your build is just mono ?

[Skeggi]

You have to realize that when you side in Kira's, they side in Volcanic Fallout.

[Ch@os]

Chill?! Volcanic Fallout costing (5) or with another chill (7) is not funny :D


Whats about this board:

3x Relic
3x BEB
3x Chill
3x Back to Basics
3x Echoing Truth


Too much anti red? They are 3x Stifle and 2x Kira in the MB. And more creatures with 2x Trasher/2xNewLord.

[Nekrataal]

I'm running two Kiras. It's not that Kira was ineffective, but it's just that burn always has at least two spells or something of the sort (Grim Lavamancer and Seal of Fire come to mind) to get rid of the Kira and then continue burning off the guys.

Where Kira IS effective is when the deck you're playing has only one or two sets of removal. For example, I played against Landstill, and I dropped Kira. My opponent could do nothing since he needed to Swords/Path Kira TWICE then he can start killing off my guys one by one. That would mean he would need three Swords/Paths to do this effectively. He needed to dig for his Wrath of God which he spent the entire game trying unsuccessfully.

I think Zoo/burn has too much removal for Kira to be really, really good. But I don't think it's a bad sideboard card. Just beware of Merfolk Sovereign's ability as well as Umezawa's Jitte if you sideboard in Kira, because you'll need to pay the equip cost twice for Jitte and stuff.

Lavamancer sucks most out of all Creatures Zoo / Sligh plays because it can wreck your board completely if you have not an army of Lords out already. Anyway there is nothing you can do in a Mono U version to have a fair (50/50) matchup against those decks. It will always be less than 50%. However most "suckessful" to me (still not bringing the matchup to 50% due to its inconsistency) seemed a combination of Kira + Dreadnaughts in the version where you already have Stifle mainboard.

[Tacosnape]

Misdirection and Jitte maindeck help. Not saying they fix the problem, but they help a lot. Done right, it's a 2-for-2 card trade, with you paying 0 mana and them paying the cost of the creature plus the cost of the burn spell (So, 2 to 3). Plus it gets rid of threats on the board that can ruin your day.

I've stolen a handful of games against red by Misdirecting timely burn spells to Pridemages, Lavamancers, Nacatls, Apes, and even twice to Tarmogoyfs.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

I do wish this deck does go away because the people that end up using playing this deck doesn't have a clue about the legacy format, they just know this deck is good.

Honestly dude, I don't know whether to "+1" this statement, or flame the fuck out of you... So I'm going to try to find a happy medium:

I haven't read this thread in several months, and now I'm seeing why... There's very little progress, it's mostly just people that are new to the deck re-hashing the same ideas over and over.

Also, it doesn't seem like anyone has actually done much legwork in testing the deck and its possible variants. Obviously, I'm just as guilty of this as anyone, perhaps more-so than some... but for example, have we actually seen any sort of solid data about how splashing various colors affects the deck?

The same mediocre cards keep getting suggested because people do not bother to read the thread at all before suggesting Cold-Eyed Selkie, or some-other-such nonsense (and yes, Phoenix Ignition, if you're reading this I realize I'm the dumbass who suggested Unstable Mutation back when I was super-new to the deck... *cringe*)

I think many people mistakenly interpret this as a "budget deck," which attracts many inexperienced players to adopt it, since they can build it for cheaper than Zoo or Tempo Thresh, etc. Additionally, it leads many good players who pay attention to the Legacy archetype to dismiss it as a n00b deck or whatever. What this leads to is a bunch of people who don't know their ass from their elbow (or, I suppose in keeping with the Merfolk theme, their dorsal fin from their blowhole) asking the same redundant questions on here, and the people who do know the deck well just get tired of discussing the same half-baked ideas over and over and stop reading the thread (like I did)...

The fact of the matter is that there don't seem to be many recent developments in this deck's general strategy or card selection. And this is leading the development of the deck to stagnate, which breaks my heart just a little bit, for real.

So, I guess all I really have added with this post is "+1 to the general bitching about lack of innovation," but I wanted to get that stuff off my chest.

I'd really love to hear from some of the folks that I consider the vanguards of this archetype (Finn, Piceli, Phoenix Ignition, and a whole bunch of others whose handles slip my mind at the moment) about where they feel the "Merfolk Deck" is in the metagame right now, and hopefully, I'd like to see someone put it some hard playtesting and offer up some data... I swear I'd do it myself if I could put together a decent Legacy gauntlet without printing up a billion proxies, or had a PC to run MWS on these days...

[P.S.]

I prefer mono-blue. I really dislike having Wasteland targets. Merfolk plays so many cards that are just sick in Legacy right now. Daze is better than it has any right to be. Force of Will is nuts. Æther Vial is amazingly powerful. I think Stifle is fantastic in the metagame too.

My biggest problem is which creatures I want to run. I playtested with the version that ran Ports, Wake Thrasher and Tidal Warrior and I didn't like it. I like the version that runs 12 "Lords" in Atlantis, Merfolk Sovereign and Merfolk Reejerey the best, I think.

This is what I like so far:

CREATURES (20)
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merfolk Sovereign
4 Merfolk Reejerey
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept

SPELLS (20)
4 Æther Vial
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Standstill
4 Stifle

LANDS (20)
12 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland

20/20/20. Direct and to the point. Nice and concise. Vial followed by Standstill is amazing. A Vial on 2 is amazing. Having FoW, Daze and Stifle in this metagame is really good too. I really like this deck and currently put it behind only ANT and CB in the meta.

Sideboarding, you have a plethora of options depending on what you think that you're going to run into. Blue Elemental Blast, Chill, Hibernation, Chalice of the Void, Energy Flux, Misdirection, Relic of Progenitus, Mind Harness, Pithing Needle, whatever!

If I didn't think ANT was the best deck, I would run Merfolk for sure.

[Nightmare]

@ Duke - I'm curious to find out how the deletion of the green splash, the addition of white, and the streamlining of the deck to run 12 lords doesn't make the cut for you as "development."

What, if not that, are you looking for?

[thesilentpyro]

I prefer mono-blue. I really dislike having Wasteland targets. Merfolk plays so many cards that are just sick in Legacy right now. Daze is better than it has any right to be. Force of Will is nuts. Æther Vial is amazingly powerful. I think Stifle is fantastic in the metagame too.

My biggest problem is which creatures I want to run. I playtested with the version that ran Ports, Wake Thrasher and Tidal Warrior and I didn't like it. I like the version that runs 12 "Lords" in Atlantis, Merfolk Sovereign and Merfolk Reejerey the best, I think.

This is what I like so far:

CREATURES (20)
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merfolk Sovereign
4 Merfolk Reejerey
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept

SPELLS (20)
4 Æther Vial
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Standstill
4 Stifle

LANDS (20)
16 Island
4 Wasteland

20/20/20. Direct and to the point. Nice and concise. Vial followed by Standstill is amazing. A Vial on 2 is amazing. Having FoW, Daze and Stifle in this metagame is really good too. I really like this deck and currently put it behind only ANT and CB in the meta.

Sideboarding, you have a plethora of options depending on what you think that you're going to run into. Blue Elemental Blast, Chill, Hibernation, Chalice of the Void, Energy Flux, Misdirection, Relic of Progenitus, Mind Harness, Pithing Needle, whatever!

If I didn't think ANT was the best deck, I would run Merfolk for sure.

With twelve lords, you NEED mutavault. There's no good reason not to run it--not only does it get better with more lords, but it improves the Standstill game. Most also reduce some of your 4-ofs, such as Stifle or Daze, in order to include some other utility, such as bounce or jitte.

[Nekrataal]

@ Duke - I'm curious to find out how the deletion of the green splash, the addition of white, and the streamlining of the deck to run 12 lords doesn't make the cut for you as "development."

What, if not that, are you looking for?

Who is deleting the green splash? I think there are still several routes to take. The classic build with 8 Lords, Thrasher and either full Denial (Stifle) or Aggro package (Bounce or Jitte), the more recent build with 12 Lords, the white splash version, the green splash version and humbly putting in my version the Ugw variant which is still awesome too play imo. I think that Duke is right in a way that a lot of ppl are picking up the deck and start with the classic or obvious "uuh there's a new Lord everybody heard about" list. It is a proven DTB list that is fun to play and for a Legacy deck easy to assemble so I just can say they made a good choice. Unfortunately this leads to the fact that there is not a lot of progress compared to the mass of ppl that seem to play the deck. A lot of reusage going on instead of innovating. Although Mono U has not much more to offer for improvements ... we have been through every choice a dozen times in this thread ...

[P.S.]

With twelve lords, you NEED mutavault.

Mutavault is supposed to be in there, I just forgot. My point about Wasteland still stands though. Thanks for mentioning it though!

I won't ever play with Jitte in Merfolk. Bounce I like. I've messed around with 2 mainboard Misdirections or 2 Echoing Truth or 2 Rushing River. There's a lot of options. That's just a "gauntlet deck" for playtesting purposes.

[Jeff Kruchkow]

Is there a section in this thread that addresses a U/r version that utilizes bolts and fire/ice (yes, like tempo thresh) in order to have a better aggro matchup?

If not, has anyone tried it?

[tivadar]

Is bolt better than STP? I understand there's no lifegain for your opponent, but still... Also, does red provide answers to enchantments and artifacts? Does it provide answers to things burning your creatures? I'm willing to consider a red splash, but bolt and fire/ice to me aren't really a good argument for it. As I've said before, the point of a splash is not the mainboard, but what it offers in the sideboard...