Don't underestimate storm combo. They have 8 chants + cantrips + discard.
But how badley would they really want to keep duress against you. Especially now that you have Lacky + Instegator rather than Vial, which I assume would be sideboarded out.Originally Posted by Cyrus
Now playing real formats.
No, not really. Storm combo packs enough disruption, from Thoughtseize, to Orim's Chant, to Pact of Negation, that they can still go off through anti-storm tactics.
I'm not saying Mindbreak Trap won't help, or that it isn't good against them. Honestly, I think it's a much better sideboard option than Chalice for Goblins and similar synergistic aggro decks against storm decks, because it doesn't require you to limit your early development against them by wasting mana on stuff like Chalice.
Basically though, Storm combo tends to spank Goblins, from what I understand. And I don't think Mindbreak Trap is going to singlehandedly change any of that, although it is a good tool for Gobbos and many other decks.
Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak
Let's assume the combo player is completely unprepared to face Mindbreak Trap. G1 he'll probably win. G2 he may side out some of his protection, and you Mindbreak Trap him. G3 he'll be aware of the trap and side that protection back in, and that's it.
What about you putting enough pressure on him, forcing him to go off unprotected?
Thank you. Lets not forget your applying the standard goblin clock. Your not exactly leaving mana open to play Mindbreak, or even breaking a fetchland into a Volcanic to let your Stifle out of the bag.
Now playing real formats.
Can we really apply that much pressure? To do so I believe we'd have to run gemstone caverns/chrome mox/simian spirit guide. And that'd fuck our consistency up.
Against ANT, yes. Early damage causes them to fizzle more frequently when using AN, and even though they have alternate means of victory, it forces them to dig for that out. That often leads to unprotected combo'ing.
So, does anyone have a guess as to just how high the price is going to go up on Warren Instigator? I'm guessing this sucker starts out around $15 and continues to go up for a while...
Which kinda sucks, because unless Merfolk gets some genuine goodies from this set, I think I need a new deck. And I'd been secretly contemplating switching to the dark side and running the Gobbos, but money is sort of a factor, so I'm not so sure this is my best option if I want to put together something decent for less than $200.
Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak
He can only be played in goblin decks. I assume he'll be the same price as like Ajani Goldmane. Like a $13 card.
So many things wrong here: Ajani was a foil pre-release card and printed as a rare. I doubt a mythic will be the prerelease or release card. Ajani is played in T2, extended, legacy, and CASUAL. WI ~may~ find a home in extended and/or T2, but will probably just end up as a four-of in every legacy goblins deck. I don't necessarily disagree with your price assesment, just the logic you used to come to that conclusion.
IMO, if you draft, you should probably take advantage of all the newer players that will open and rare draft this card, but wonder why it's good/a mythic. Trade them a bad planeswalker or a dragon or something for it and you'll both be much happier.
OK fine, how about Garruk instead? Still about a $13 card and sees a lot less play.
Basically, I don't think it'll get to Baneslayer price.
Probably more like Piledriver in the long run. There are two sides to it. When he comes out there will both be a lot of hype aswell as a lot of nay-sayers. Wether they'll just cancel each other out or one overhangs will have to be seen.
I'm definitely pre-ordering 4x Goblin Guide while they're relatively cheap. I think it's being underrated by most people.
Mindbreak Trap is a very good card, but it probably won't see much play simply because storm combo doesn't see much play. It will come way down in price.
Last edited by Volt; 09-05-2009 at 10:39 PM.
Team Info-Ninja: Shhh... We don't exist.
Oe thing you shouldn't do is wait for the next set to be released because they chances of it becoming T2 playable increases with every set.
First turn lackey with wastelands is a good start atleast.
Look, I know this totally goes against the goblin synergy but if one was to include Instigator.....
There are now 12 creatures in the deck that would love to be either provided with boost+trample or just trample.
Is that a great enough critical mass to run sub-optimal spells such as fury charm or Rancor???
I'd run frenzied goblin before I'd even consider running crap like Rancor :D
Hello friend.
Hi I'm new in this forum and i'm Italian so forgive me if my english is bad.
I have a goblin deck and i'm asking myself if Warren Instigator is really necessary.
Advantages are:
a) goblin lackey effect *2
b) double strike +chieftain =very good
c) it draws the attention of your opponents, allowing all the other goblins to take damage
Disadvantages
a) it costs RR
b) draw WI in middle late game is awful (like lackey)
I will test WI in 4x but I think that 2/3x is the right number...
I know this might sound kind of heretical at first, but with the printing of the enemy fetchlands, is it time to look at dropping the Wastelands from Goblins?
Since every deck can now reliably fetch for basics off of its main color, it seems like the value of wasteland has decreased significantly.
Those slots, combined with the enemy fetchlands seem like a way for goblins to increase their splash options without sacrificing consistency.
The splash options for goblins now available are:
White: Chant/Silence/Abeyance/Swords/Path/Disenchant
Green: Krosan Grip
Blue: Stifle/Mindbreak Trap
Black: Weirding/Wort/Therapy/Thoughtseize/Duress
You could even theoretically run a 5c goblins list if you dropped wastelands, with the manabase looking something like:
2x Bloodstained Mire
2x Wooded Foothills
2x Arid Mesa
2x U/R fetchland
1x Volcanic Island
1x Badlands
1x Plateau
1x Taiga
1x Swamp
1x Forest
1x Plains
1x Island
6x Mountain
(22 Lands)
I don't think 5c gobs is necessarily a good idea because you'd be putting in so many non-goblins that you'd destroy the value of ringleader and the synergy of the decks goblin on goblin action, but lets face it, the deck has been stagnating for awhile now, and the results its putting up are going down and down. Fundamentally altering the way the deck is built may be necessary.
Dropping the LD plan also allows the use of cards like Goblin Guide and Path to Exile without worrying about the way their drawback screws up the decks main form of disruption.
Looking at goblins' bad matchups, it seems like the things the deck is most in need of are ways to kill tarmogoyf and ways to disrupt combo decks. White and black seem like the best two splashes to accomplish these goals, since both colors provide numerous (though sadly non-goblin) ways to kill tarmogoyf, and disrupt combo, with white having plenty of ways to destroy Engineered Plague as well. (hi, I'm Ronom Unicorn, the Engineered Plague hate-bear)
Just some thoughts I've had about goblins since the new cards in the set have begun being spoiled.
Tarmogoyf is a pain in the ass, but pyrokinesis main helps a lot, specially when you are not running warren weirdings main to pump it (3/4 can be killed by the kinesis). It also helps a lot the new instigator, which i´m running 2 main. Combo is a match i expext to loose, except if i´m running 8 slots in my sideboard (which is a lot) of chalices and thorns of the amethyst.
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