[Deck] Non-LED Based Dredge/Ichorid Combo

[Mikeleroi]

People, have you seen Iona, shield of Emeria?

http://www.magic-ville.com/fr/gazett...rticle?ref=442

If we achieve DR-ing it, I think it´s game over for the opponent.

[Wargoos]

Well, I never had french lessons but I suppose it's something like this:

Iona, Shield of the Emeria 6WWW

legendary Creature - angel mr
Flying

When ~ enters the battlefield choose a color.

Opponents cannot play spells of the choosen color.

7/7

Ill. Jason Chan


Holy Mc-Fuckshit. (no translation - personal note)

[Adan]

People, have you seen Iona, shield of Emeria?

http://www.magic-ville.com/fr/gazett...rticle?ref=442

If we achieve DR-ing it, I think it´s game over for the opponent.

Uhm. No. If you call any color but White, it's going to be plowed, if you call White, he can still play everything else.

For everyone who can't figure out the oracle text, it says:

"Flying - As Iona, whateversheis enters the battlefield, name a color. Your opponents can't casts spells of the named color."

Of course he is a house against Burn, Solidarity and other monocolored decks [/obv], but I think his role is not defined very well. Against some decks, he is as bad as Platinum Angel and against other decks, Ancestor's Chosen would also do the trick.

Combo has got the same amount of outs against this Angel like against Platz.
Calling Blue against ANT for example won't change the fact that he can LED, LED, Infernal, IGG, LED, LED, Infernal, Tutor, Tendrils and calling Black still leaves him the possibility to Brainstorm-Fetch-Ponder and then just Mystical -> Wipe Away for absolute annihilation.

I think it's on par with Platz, just... WAY bigger.

edit: when the fuck did EaD ninja me? O_o

[Joe_C]

@Iona: Bleh, not worth it's weight in cardboard. Akroma is better if you wanted an animation target, and even that sucks.

@ Stifle: cards that make the deck reactive are usually poor. Ichorid needs to be aggresive, and even though we need to change the game plan for g2/g3 running cards that you need to have in your hand to be effective(which means you may as well run 4) are not worth running unless they are going to change the gamestate severely i.e-firestorm. Once stifle is in the grave, its not going to do you any good. Now if they made one with flashback, then we could talk about it

[georgjorge]

I think the stifle idea looks awsome! It helps against wastelands and u can also counter bridge removal triggers. Stifle might be a hidden gem here.

Thanks (though I'm not saying that I'm necessarily the first that thought of it).

cards that make the deck reactive are usually poor. Ichorid needs to be aggresive, and even though we need to change the game plan for g2/g3 running cards that you need to have in your hand to be effective(which means you may as well run 4) are not worth running unless they are going to change the gamestate severely i.e-firestorm

Well people were quite happy with Needle before Relic, which is even more of a defensive card than Stifle (as it is completely useless if your opponent doesn't draw his Crypt/Relic), so I don't think it's that easy. Neutralizing a card that would otherwise severely cripple your deck could be a big enough effect to play it.

[Joe_C]

Thanks (though I'm not saying that I'm necessarily the first that thought of it).




Well people were quite happy with Needle before Relic, which is even more of a defensive card than Stifle (as it is completely useless if your opponent doesn't draw his Crypt/Relic), so I don't think it's that easy. Neutralizing a card that would otherwise severely cripple your deck could be a big enough effect to play it.

True stifle may save you, but it is likely to save you once, thats it. In theory the card seems nice and all, but in order to have one in your hand, you would need to run 4, and trying to mull into answers isnt a good plan at all. I would rather keep a hand that has an imp/ tribe in it and bait them to use their hate before your grave gets out of control. Having 8 permanent discard effects and grudges are often enough for me to deal with crypt/relic. Running stifle seems like it would take more slots in the sb than its worth, but if you want to run it more power to ya

[georgjorge]

Like I said, I'm trying it instead of Grudge because I don't like that so much, especially against decks with Wastelands like Tempo Thresh. But I haven't played enough with it yet, and it may be that in some time I'll come back and tell you that you've been right all along

[Scopeye]

There is a new rumored card in zendikar at MTGsalvation that says
U
Enchantment
Whenever a card is put into a graveyard put a quest counter on NAME.
Remove 5 quest counters from Name and sacrifice it: Suffle your graveyard into your library

Would it be usefull as a sb card?

[Joe_C]

There is a new rumored card in zendikar at MTGsalvation that says
U
Enchantment
Whenever a card is put into a graveyard put a quest counter on NAME.
Remove 5 quest counters from Name and sacrifice it: Suffle your graveyard into your library

Would it be usefull as a sb card?

against? this would be way to beneficial for your opponent.

[Scopeye]

against? this would be way to beneficial for your opponent.

You can use it in response to a crypt or relic. You can start over without losing bridges ichorids etc if you keep a dredger at hand which the ledless version tends to have.

[claudio.r]

Is it worth to upgrade/downgrade this to a LED version ? I would like to know the opinion os somebody who played both versions, as i'm only experienced with the non-led version.

[sunshine]

Is it worth to upgrade/downgrade this to a LED version ? I would like to know the opinion os somebody who played both versions, as i'm only experienced with the non-led version.

This is largely a meta dependent choice. The short answer is that if investing in LEDs is something you don't want to do for financial reasons then don't bother, otherwise try it out and see which you like better. The majority of your games will play out exactly the same. I don't look at LED/LED-less versions as completely different decks, but the same deck with meta slots filled differently.

I played with LEDs for a long time but dropped them once Merfolk started to gain popularity. IMO LED-less Ichorid should be the default choice right now and you should run LEDs if you have a strong reason to do so (for example, you don't expect to see any Merfolk or Tempo Thresh and Combo/Stax comprises at least 10% of the meta).

I guess my questions for you are: have you been unhappy with the deck? What's your meta like?

[Raptor]

This is largely a meta dependent choice. The short answer is that if investing in LEDs is something you don't want to do for financial reasons then don't bother, otherwise try it out and see which you like better. The majority of your games will play out exactly the same. I don't look at LED/LED-less versions as completely different decks, but the same deck with meta slots filled differently.

I played with LEDs for a long time but dropped them once Merfolk started to gain popularity. IMO LED-less Ichorid should be the default choice right now and you should run LEDs if you have a strong reason to do so (for example, you don't expect to see any Merfolk or Tempo Thresh and Combo/Stax comprises at least 10% of the meta).

I guess my questions for you are: have you been unhappy with the deck? What's your meta like?

I just wanted to say, tempo ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh (UGR, the most played one) is a really good match up for LED ichorid.
The power of LED is really insane in games where you need to goldfish faster.
Although, it's true that you often side out the LED, but there are some games where you REALLY need them.

[claudio.r]

I've been doing very well with the led-less version in my meta, lots os merfolk and red decks. But i'm a little bit tired of it, either i innovate something with the deck, or i'll start playing something else for some time... But getting the LEDs... that's another story...

[ZZZ]

I want to play something different from my Rock deck at an upcoming tournament and I'll probably be taking Ledless Ichorid. It'll be the first time I play Ichorid at a tournament...

I've been doing some testing and I'm pretty comfortable with playing the main deck (I play a fairly standard list, only doubt I have at the moment is to go for Witness or Sage) but sideboarding is giving me problems.
I currently play the following side:
4 Firestorm
4 Ancient Grudge
1 Ancestor's Chosen
2 Wispmare
2-4 Chain of Vapor
0-2 open slots

I've got a couple of questions:
Against which decks do you board in Firestorm. It seems to me like they could come in quite a lot (against aggro like Merfolk and Zoo, against ANT/TES, mirror?, UGWcountertop???).
Also against Merfolk or Zoo for example I've found that boarding in 4 Grudge and 4 Firestorm can be a bit too much sometimes as you have to take too much out and slow the deck down quite a bit. I know in game 2 (and 3) we'll often be slow dredging but still...
People who play discard in their SB (unmask, thoughtseize, duress) in which matchups do you bring it in?

I'm also often not sure what to take out. If I only board in 4 cards (grudge for instance) I usually take out the 2 Breakthrough, 1 Sage (if I decide to run it over Witness) and 1 Dread Return (I play 3 main) but if I have to board in more cards, I find it very difficult what to take out. If anybody could give me some advice here this would be very helpful. It'll obviously depend on what you're playing against.

I'll post my list here for reference:
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Cephalid Coliseum
2 Undiscovered Paradise

4 Putrid Imp
4 Tireless Tribe
4 Golgari Grave troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug
4 Ichorid
4 Bridge from Below
2 Breakthrough
4 Cabal therapy
4 Careful Study
4 Narcomoeba
3 Dread Return
1 Cephalid Sage / Eternal Witness
1 Flame-Kin Zealot

Thanks

[Matthias]

As Firestorm acts as an additional Discard-Outlet, I usually take out the Tribe, when I board in Firestorm. Of course Tribe is excellent at holding off opposing beaters, but Firestorm plain wins games when you clear their board on turn 3 and go crazy dredging in turn 4.

[georgjorge]

I've been wondering why no-one seems to play Firestorm maindeck. For me, it's very strong because it takes care of the two most common ways for decks to beat you pre-board: a) countering your discard outlets b) playing lots of small creatures and removing Bridges with them. Actually, all of the DTB/DTW except combo either play multiple counterspells or small creatures. Its biggest drawback is that it's non-reusable, which usually doesn't matter much pre-board, but often makes me board some of them out against non-Aggro decks for stuff like Tribe (also, post-board not being counterable isn't so good anymore as you'll likely have to cast other spells anyway). For reference, my discard outlets main are

4 Firestorm
4 Careful Study
4 Putrid Imp
(3 Breakthrough)

[sunshine]

I just wanted to say, tempo ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh (UGR, the most played one) is a really good match up for LED ichorid.
The power of LED is really insane in games where you need to goldfish faster.
Although, it's true that you often side out the LED, but there are some games where you REALLY need them.

It may be a good matchup for LED Ichorid - although it's a lot closer than most would like to think - but I would argue it is a better one for LEDless Ichorid.

[Parcher]

It may be a good matchup for LED Ichorid - although it's a lot closer than most would like to think - but I would argue it is a better one for LEDless Ichorid.

Agreed, but only if they run sideboard cards directly for Ichorid. Those can turn on all of their LD effects, and make it highly difficult for LED Ichorid to use any anti-hate. Without graveyard hate, their strategy usually hits too far outside of where Ichorid is strong to be relevant.

[sunshine]

Agreed, but only if they run sideboard cards directly for Ichorid. Those can turn on all of their LD effects, and make it highly difficult for LED Ichorid to use any anti-hate. Without graveyard hate, their strategy usually hits too far outside of where Ichorid is strong to be relevant.

Very true, but the same could be said for so many decks. If opponents aren't bringing in any graveyard hate chances are it wont make much difference what version of Ichorid you're running (combo being the obvious exception). I think we agree though that if they (meaning Tempo Thresh like decks) are bringing in graveyard hate that LEDless versions have an edge over those with LED.