Eh,if you look closer u'll notice those lists are 56cards,so obviously they do run goyfs but lists were posted wrong.
Anyway,those list are very close to what I'm playing but they play Chain lighting over helix,something ive been thinking about aswell,especially because Merfolk are so popular right now.
About jitte, I wanna play 2MD(mybe 1with testing),but that requires playing PoP in sideboards,idea's?
There's a fine line between stupidity and genius.Originally Posted by Nihil Credo
Who says the Internet isn't full of <3?
From my testing experiences with Knight I can only agree with playing thoctares over them. The lack of Synergy with Mancer made them far too small to be relevant (meaning smaller than goyfs) and having to pay 3 mana for a dude that needs 2 turns to grow to goyfformat is just too much. Another thing I dislike about the Hatfields list is the 3 fireblasts. With the manabase they are running the second one drawn will be dead far too often. While I agree with the assessment that a singleton Jitte seems random you can really make an argument that with 22 dudes and 21 lands 1 really is the right number.
I don't find the dyssynergy between knight and lavamancer to be a problem, ever. It's easy to remove non-lands for lavamancer, and since a lot of the time you won't even draw a knight, it doesn't matter anyway. Further, Knight has the ability to fuel a lavamancer when the board is stalled if you need a few more points of direct damage.
Lastly, yes, he comes into play as a 4/4 on turn 3. He also comes in as a 6/6 or 7/7 on turn 7, while you're staring down 5/6 goyfs with your 5/4 wooly thoctar. Knight is not for curving out; he is for closing games.
One Jitte is probably fine. I'd wager it's probably a lot better than fine. You'll win more games after you topdeck it than you'd win if it was a Kird Ape, for example. I wouldn't run four, and I wouldn't run three. I don't know if I'd run two, one, or none, but one is perfectly reasonable.
InfoNinjas
Second the sentiment. This is basically the only reason to play non tutorable one ofs. Cards you never want to draw in multiples which are situational but can win games on their own when drawn in the right situation/matchup. While it's inherently random it can be a rewarding gamble. This is an element that I feel the Japanese reintroduced sucessfully into high level magic in the last few years.
EDH could be an enlightening experience for you. If singleton implied uselessness then EDH decks would do nothing.
KotR also suffers from splash hate from Tarmogoyf and Grim Lavamancer. Woolly Thoctar is also a bit more aggressive too.
"We are goblinkind, heirs to the mountain empires of chieftains past. Rest is death to us, and arson is our call to war."
You're like the Confucious of Zoo.
Dead or Alive, you're coming with me.
-Robocop-
This is like the funniest thing I've heard all damn day.
Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak
Then be my guest and run an entirely singleton Zoo deck at the next tournament you go to. Think of the glee you will have when you draw your goyf once every 5-6 match ups!
Who says the Internet isn't full of <3?
Enter the void...
I still prefer KotR,its just bigger when it comes into play,its easier to cast,he can make himself bigger AND cant be REB'd/pyro'd.
I'm testing a singleton jitte,and I must say its not bad at all.
You dont lose anything by running it,and it can win you the game.
Ofc u have to run a 2nd on the side then.
I don't see why some people have this rabid reaction against running singletons. Lots of Storm combo decks, for example, run one Chain of Vapor. Granted, they can tutor for it, so they have much more chance of seeing it, but I see nothing wrong with splitting your Jittes between the maindeck and the sideboard.
Singletons basically imply that you don't need to see the card in any given game, but you won't be disappointed to draw it, and I think Jitte matches this criteria perfectly, in this deck. You would pretty much have to be already losing the game if you really can't find a creature to equip. That's my $.02
Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak
Singletons aren't included because of a part of the game some people do not want to rely on (me thinks): Luck. You can't come up with formula and find out that you'll get the card with 43% in your starting hand (well you can, put it's completely pointless for 1-ofs). Now it's very traceable that you don't want to rely on luck, because your obviously the better player and you want to beat your opponents with consistency, not with luck.
How much consistency do you give up for randomly winning the game?
More cheese = more holes ; More holes = less cheese ; More cheese = less cheese
1 jitte MD isnt gonna chance anything at ur consistency.
If you play the list with 22 creatures chances u have a creature when drawing jitte will mostly be quite big. Not being able to draw a 2nd jitte md decreases ur chances aswell of having a useless card.
An active Jitte just fucking wins games. Non combo games of course, but worst case you can gain life there. People don't realize that. I've compared him to Dark Confidant the entire thread and noone even replies. Once it's active, it's just insane. It helps Zoo against half the format as well. I don't see why you wouldn't run at least 2 maindeck. That's my 2 cents, for the 80th time.
Dead or Alive, you're coming with me.
-Robocop-
I Lol'ed too. There was even a tear in my eye from it. Thanks Lox.This is like the funniest thing I've heard all damn day.
Seriously though, the Hatfields have baffled/astounded me. I have openly discounted the inclusion of Horizon Canopy and Sylvan Library on many occasions. Now I am forced by the obvious domination of their build (assuming the reported results are accurate) to reevaluate. The one thing that I'm really not wrapping my mind around yet is that sideboard. Choke? I hate that card. Two StP? For what? No yard hate is weird too. It looks like the focus is to shore up against decks like Landstill, Counter/top, and tempo thresh, i.e., decks that can push you into a late game, while abandoning combo entirely. Abandoning combo makes sense to me when it's %5 or less of the meta. The extra Jitte seems to be aimed at Goblins and Merfolk, other aggro in general. I have no choice but to build it exactly and run the DTB Gauntlet.
2 STPs should be added against anything running 4 Goyfs and imio makes perfect sense.
Could someone put forth a reasonable argument for Choke? To me it seems like a misguided strategy, since by adding a 3*3 mana enchantments to the dec your inevitably moving away from the early mid game strategy and preparing yourself for the lategame. While Choke is an extremely powerful tool here, since it basically sets back your opponent I'm not sure if this warrants inclusion over more versatile cards.
As far as the Hatfield list, i could give two shits what cards he ran. People need to figure out cards and develop their own lists based on their own testing. It's worth it and it will make you better with the deck and therefor make you a better player. I hate it when people copy/paste lists and run them with no knowledge of the deck.
Dead or Alive, you're coming with me.
-Robocop-
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