Four Spell Snares in the SB seems a little odd to me, I would play around with Echoing Truth, Submerge, maybe even Annul in those slots... Then again, I guess Annul is kind of a weird suggestion too.
Also, I don't know if it's just me, but I've really been looking for an excuse to stick 2 Vendillion Clique in the sideboard... I'm just not entirely sure which match-ups it would be optimal for, and/or how common those match-ups are... Anyone have any feedback on the Clique?
Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak
Bad in the aggro mu.Originally Posted by DukeDemonKn1ght
Awesome against Combo and Control.
But since we have a good mu against both of those anyways, it's just a win more card, that won't help us.
I love clique, just not in this deck.
Team Legal Actions.
Ok, this is an untested list, and I'm about 9/10 sure that if I actually shuffled it up, it would probably just end up being comically bad. Basically, I just wanted to make a mock-up of what would happen if a Merfolk deck decided to run Dark Confidant. So, without further ado:
Experimental (untested, non-optimal) Dark Merfolk:
4 Catcher
4 Adept
4 Lord of ATL
4 Dark Confidant
4 Reejerey
2 Sovereign
4 Aether Vial
3 Brainstorm
1 Diabolic Edict
3 Smother
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
4 Underground Sea
3 Mutavault
3 Wasteland
4 Island
...Ok. So I'll be the first to admit that this list looks somewhat like ass. I was trying to make the list as a point of departure, but I don't know if this is going to draw any consensus on if this is actually what the black splash should look like. Please feel to tear this list apart, as I'm not even sure black would be a good color to splash. I do think it provides a few sexy sideboard options though, but more on that once we decide if this list is even correctly built/viable.
A couple brief explanations:
~Brainstorm is in there instead of Standstill because it seemed like between Confidant and the removal suite, the 2CMC spot on the curve was getting pretty clogged up. Also I figure it gives us a way of stacking for Confidant, and takes advantage of the six fetch-lands.
~3/1 split between Smother and Edict because I figure Smother is much more flexible, but having one main-deck Edict gives the list a random out to some creatures that Smother could never kill.... Mainly it's in there as Tombstalker insurance, and I'm not even sure if this split is correct. But that's the logic behind it.
*So. I guess the main questions on my mind are, "Does this look like a correct version of the 'black splash'?" and, "How would this affect our aggro match-up?"
EDIT: One more thing: Do y'all think that having Force of Will in the same deck as Confidant necessitates a couple Sensei's Divining Tops in there? I originally had two of those and two Jitte, but I figured Edict/Smother is probably more of what this deck needs from its splash...
Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak
Why don't you just run Snuff Out as removal?
€dit: I mean without the confidants. Standstill is not bad with vial and mutavault shenanigans.
Although I like Confidants I can't see them solve this decks problem MU's but even worsening them.
Team Legal Actions.
The repeatable card advantage of Confidant is pretty cool. He helps you win matches that were already somewhat favorable. I'm not sure if he does well in the poorer matches though. He fits in the aggressive tempo role, so like EaD said, Snuff Out might be good here.
Against burn he's awful. He does dig up cards for decks packing Moat, but could cost you the game if you lose too much life. Also black doesn't offer much SB tech to help poor matches (which is why I've been curious about white or green)
I'd like to hear your results from testing though, DDK. I just feel that it becomes a different deck when you add Bob.
Confidant looks terrible in here. He doesn't get your power bonuses, doesn't pitch to Force, and hurts you in the damage race given how many things you run that cost 3 or 5. If you play Black, I'd play it for one maindeck card and one maindeck card only - Snuff Out. Just because it fits with the highly advantageous freecast theme.
Merfolk's problem isn't card advantage. It gets plenty of it. Silvergill and Standstill do their jobs very nicely. Merfolk's problem is being able to solve the problems it faces with the cards it gets.
Hey look, we agree! If you're looking at card advantage, you're looking at the wrong issue. Consider this - How does black, or the lifeloss from Confidant - help you beat red cards?
Merfolk can beat basically any deck with blue in it. It wins the control, combo, and aggro-control matchups (ok, well, ones not playing red). If you run things like Hibernation, you can smoke Elves. The issue we're still trying to solve is the Burn/Zoo/Aggroloam issue - threats backed by plentiful removal. Solve that, before focusing on non-issues.
This is some good horse sense. I had the feeling that folks would have some good arguments against the list (which if y'all recall, I said I expected it to be terrible...)
As far as winning Burn/Zoo/Loam, from what I recall testing a list that splashed white for maindeck StP, this actually helps out the bulk of these match-ups more than you would think.
The issue with the white splash, in my mind at least, is that it presents a fair amount of attractive options for the sideboard, and you don't want to lean on your splash too heavily. I never really got the blue/green lists to work for me, but I think they're also infinitely more viable than splashing black.
...I have to admit it, part of me just wanted to post a bad deck-list so we could all have fun ripping on it. But there was another part of me that thought maybe Dark Confidant actually was a good idea, and genuinely needed the brilliant minds of some fellow Sourcers to tear it apart in order to set me straight. And I thank y'all for that.
Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak
For me currently merfs is on stagnant phase, decks now are much more prepared against it. If goblins or zoo type decks begin grow in numbers merfs will more or less die in that meta. But im still hoping that merfs time isn't up. Wotc pls don't ban countertop in legacy, aggro decks will run wild in the meta. I just recalled what one poster here in the source (zilla not sure) that he only designed angel stompy specifically to combat gobs since that was the deck to beat in almost all places back then. I hope zendikar could offer some useful cards for the merfs deck.
Confidant for me is not a nice fit in the merfs deck because standstill and silvergill has almost the same effect.
Not only do merfs loose to decks that packs heavy removals, for me with no bounce or countermagic to counter an early tombstalker racing it is such a pain.
>>> Thus insert the discussion of playing wakethrasher or not...
the thing i really hate about thrasher is that it only has 1 thoughness after its attack phase and can be easily be stolen by shackles.
Racing against stompy decks like sea stompy or any deck that has lots flyers and is carrying a jitte is also a pain for merfs.
Agreed. So IMO these are the best options to deal with it:
1. Play 2-3 Jitte main.
2. Play Threads of Disloyalty main.
3. Splash white for StP and Absolute Law.
They increase the bad matchups against decks with burn, but don't make it favorable. I guess that is just not possible with Merfolk.
We all hope and wait for an awesome addition to our merfolk decks.
mtgsalvation just spoiled this:
...
I feel like I wanna shoot somebody.
Team Legal Actions.
We do? All the extra almost-good-enough Merfolk easily blur the vision of what would be the best Merfolk list. The list at the moment is very strong. The only thing we could really use is something like this:
Merrow Burninator
Creature - Merfolk
Protection from red
: Target creature gets protection from red.
2/2
Anything else is just a waste. And these newly spoiled ones really don't come close to anything we want.
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
Well, you know since the orb said, there would be some new merfolk in the new set and since gob's got some awesome things, I think we can also expect some playables.We do? All the extra almost-good-enough Merfolk easily blur the vision of what would be the best Merfolk list. The list at the moment is very strong. The only thing we could really use is something like this:
Merrow Burninator
Creature - Merfolk
Protection from red
2/2
Anything else is just a waste. And these newly spoiled ones really don't come close to anything we want.
Team Legal Actions.
That would be assuming WotC doesn't have their head stuck up their @$$. For me, that's far too big of an assumption. Merfolk Burninator (who would obviously be nicknamed trogdor) would be an awesome addition, however, I just don't see it happening.
@ Holkenberg: I completely agree with your 1-3. I've been working with threads main, and it hoses goyf sligh, as stealing goyf really kills their gameplan. I also like the white splash, but the problem for me with isn't even the nonbasic suscetibility, but the damage from fetchlands. Against burn decks, even 1-3 extra damage can mean the game in a lot of cases. Jitte to me feels weak just because it lowers your threat density. If you get it active, great, but they'll most likely bolt/burn your guy before he connects, and then it's just a dead card.
There's really no good plan to beat *all* red decks in my opinion. You have to choose which to beat. Threads takes down Goyf Sligh, Absolute Law hoses Goblins. Basically, we need a good pro-red merfolk :-P.
P.S. Even better Merfolk:
uu1
Merfolk Awetacular:
Other merfolk you control get +1/+1 and gain protection from red.
2/2
Fixed.
Seriously, though? I wouldn't hold your breath to get a Merfolk that clearly makes the cut. It'll have to be a 1-drop, and something better than Cursecatcher, or a 2-drop that's better than Silvergill. I see neither of these happening. It would take something like:
Merfolk Summoner
Creature - Merfolk Wizard
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may put a summon counter on Merfolk Summoner.
Tap: You may put a Merfolk creature card with converted mana cost equal to or less than the number of summon counters on Merfolk Summoner from your hand into play.
1/1
Again, don't hold your breath.
Going back to the splash quickly, if White goes in is Sygg River Guide any good? He fits the curve and should help against those tough red based matchups. I apologize he he was mentioned and dismissed earlier in the thread. By dropping the vaults and a couple islands you can make room in the manabase and running a couple MB Sygg's and StP's would probably go a along way against red decks.
My main concern with the color splashes is it takes away one of the best qualities of the deck, the high basic land count.
He has been discussed and generally dismissed because he's too mana-intensive for his protection.
EDIT: And also because he's a reactive rather than proactive solution that requires you keeping mana open. Better Taco?
Last edited by tivadar; 09-11-2009 at 02:12 PM.
I don't really agree with this. I think Sygg's just dismissed because he's narrow and doesn't really do as much as any of the other Merfolk, especially if you're splashing white and he's fighting for spots along with STP, Seal of Cleansing, and any Red or Combo hate you might be packing such as Canonist, Mage, or Ab-Law.
I will say though that I don't like the prospect of ever having to keep mana open with Merfolk, which instantly nixes Sygg with me. This is a large part of why my last four maindeck spots have been divided between Thrasher/Misdirection/Jitte and not Stifle or Snare. I like to be able to spend every last mana I have seizing as much of the board as possible and defending it with freecast spells.
Good Point.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...1&d=1252677284
This is the type of thing that makes me think, "Gee, I wish I also worked for WotC, so I too could get paid to sit around all day smoking crack and masturbating. I'd come up with a terrible creature, over-cost him, and commission a piece of really nice artwork for my horrible creation; then I'd call it a day.
I'm really loving a lot of aspects of the new set so far though... Well, besides the apparent lameness of the "allies" sub-theme, and the abundance of suck-fail that they seem to be endowing all the Merfolk cards with. Seriously though, even besides all the issues with the Merfs we've seen so far (still holding my breath for a playable)... Even besides that, "allies"? What the fuck is this shit, the Super Friends?!?!?
Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak
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