Very well then, I updated my list in the thread's opening post to run Disk instead of Oblivion Ring. I've always liked Disk better anyways. I've also had to cut Oona, Queen of the Fae from the list because there simply wasn't enough room for the card, and the deck had no shortage of finishers that could actually ignore your opponent's creature kill.
As for Bosejui, with my new list I'm playing a grandtotal of seven instants/sorceries that have a colorless mana in their casting cost. Having to put up with a CIPT land that has poor synergy with Coffers and costs you life each time you produce mana with it didn't seem worthwhile.
//Mana
20 Swamp
4 Cabal Coffers
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
//Draw & Discard
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Phyrexian Arena
//Removal
4 Innocent Blood
2 Chainers Edict
2 Shriekmaw
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
//Sweepers
3 Damnation
2 Nevinryll's Disk
//Finishers
1 Staff of Domination
1 Sorin Markov
2 Liliana Vess
2 Consume Spirit
My only regret is that I haven't been able to squeeze in even more removal to help deal with swarm aggro.
I would like to make room for Engineered Plague in the sideboard atleast. Any recommendations as to what I should cut?
Last edited by Clark Kant; 09-10-2009 at 04:00 PM.
You actually see Sorin Markov>Arena? Or is he just in there for testing? Because i think Liliana is way better than Sorin. What would you play Sorin for? The only real Reason to play him would be his first Ability - the 2 Point Life drain. It will normally just target the Opponent, as you already kill everything which moves. The other 2 Abilities (the 10 Life thing and the Mindslaver) are both mostly useless (specially the Mindslaver). So the only real Reason to play him, would be to Kill opposing Pla(neswalkers)yers with his first Ability. But i think Consume Spirit does the same.
The only real Card from Zendikar i would consider (until now) is
Might even Consider playing him over Shriekmaw.Gatekeeper of Malakir {B}{B}
Creature - Vampire Warrior Uncommon
Kicker {B} (You may pay an additional {B} as you cast this spell.)
When Gatekeeper of Malakir enters the battlefield, if it was kicked, target player sacrifices a creature.
2/2
Snuff Out might be a good choice, because it kills everything Doom Blade did, does it for free if you need it to, and dodges CB. However, the life loss could become iffy with Arenas.
I think you need the extra Arena to beat swarm aggro g1, so you can consistenly outdraw them. I might be tempted to write the combo matchup off as unwinnable, and go with a sideboard of
4 Engineered Plague
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Nevinyrral's Disk
5 meta slots.
Point taken. I've cut a Sorin Markov for an Arena. You can still tutor for Markov with Liliana Vess when needed. Markov just costs way too much mana as well so it will be of little help until the late game.Originally Posted by K_Rot_T
And I'll give some more consideration to using Gatekeeper in place of Shriekmaw.
Also consider the use of Skeletal Scrying, which is really, really good at drawing cards at any stage of the game, and at speed. You could squeeze at least two into the deck by cutting 1 land and 1 piece of removal.
Now that MBC has access to both Shriekmaw and Gatekeeper of Malakir, I'm wondering if there is any reason the deck can't be made even more aggressive.
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Shriekmaw
4 Dusk Urchins
12 Other removal spells
seems extremely sexy, because every creature provides significant card advantage so the deck wouldn't be actually losing anything. The fact that they attack are secondary. The removal clears the way for the attacks to get through.
It would certainly speed up the clock. But the deck would have to move away from Innocent Blood and some of the sweepers it plays.
What do you guys think?
Now that MBC has access to both Shriekmaw and Gatekeeper of Malakir, I'm wondering if there is any reason the deck can't be made even more aggressive.
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Shriekmaw
4 Dusk Urchins
12 Other removal spells
seems extremely sexy, because every creature provides significant card advantage so the deck wouldn't be actually losing anything. The fact that they attack are secondary. The removal clears the way for the attacks to get through.
It would certainly speed up the clock. But the deck would have to move away from Innocent Blood and some of the sweepers it plays.
What do you guys think?
Unfortunately in the paper-rock-scissors world of combo-aggro-control, aggro is control's Achilles heel and as such a turn three removal spell/creature does not compete well with the very fast Legacy aggro metagame. If you cast him with Ritual then you sacrifice card advantage, which is also bad for control.
Who says the Internet isn't full of <3?
Most of this deck's removal is 2cc (and 1cc).
Playing some 3cc removal is easy to support. Even the very fastest legacy aggro decks don't win before turn 4 or turn 5 in a goldfish.
And also, aside from goblins and zoo, there are no pure aggro decks in legacy. 90% of the creature based decks are aggro control, and play few creatures. Against those decks, a 3cc removal spell is more than fast enough. Legacy is no where near as fast as you make it out to be. It's mostly dominated by aggro control decks.
Bear in mind that Goblins and Zoo are two of the current decks to beat, and if you're going to take 6 damage from a t1 Nacatl before dealing with it you're doing things wrong. The entire point of this deck, which IIRC is a take-off of Train Wreck that trades access to Deed, Kgrip and C/P for a less-disruptable mana base, is that you will crush decks relying on dudes to win slowly but inevitably. Part of doing that is having access to cheap removal spells to supplement your sweepers. How many the deck can support is a matter of taste, but I would never play less than 8, and 4 of those should probably be Innocent Blood, because it's your only answer to a 1-drop on the draw. I would also run 4 Smothers so that Vial and man-lands doesn't crush your life. Gatekeeper and Shriekmaw are pretty bad at those roles, nevermind that giving your opponent outlets for his creature removal can't be a good thing.
If you absolutely must play creatures, I suggest Undead Gladiator as a recurrable clock/card selector/Strangling Soot. Also, I notice your current list has no Haunting Echoes. Why?
I was actually thinking that 1-3 copies of Tendrils of Corruption might be good in this deck. It's a 4 mana instant that deals damage to target creature equal to the number of swamps you control and it gains life equal to the damage dealt helping you recover from early beats and/or Phyrexian Arenas.
I'm not currently testing this deck so I haven't tried it myself but it does seem like it might be a worthy inclusion.
Tendrils is a strong card, but not in legacy. In other, younger formats, one can reasonably expect to be alive on the fourth turn to cast Tendrils. in Legacy, not really. Your early removal in this deck is just to get you to your midgame sweepers, which lead into your Urzatron-level mana engine and an endgame which consists of your opponent fidgeting and hellbent while you take massive Staff, Liliana, and Arena-powered turns.
BTW, I just played vs. Solidarity online, and it should be a nightmare matchup unless I miss my guess. Duress-Hymn-Hymn-Arena-Hymn seems to change that around, though. In that vein, a better anti-control and combo sideboard might consist of Unmask/Therapy, Bottomless Pit/Scepter of Fugue for the lockdown, and some sort of clock. Tombstalker comes to mind. Thoughts?
Well, I'm playing Thoughtseize in the sideboard. I think playing it in the sideboard makes more sense than either Unmask or Cabal Therapy. You can bring in Thoughtseize instead of Duress against pure creature based decks, and it can take the place of some of your removal against combo, control and even aggro control.
Oppression is better than Bottomless Pit. It affects your opponent far more than yourself and is actually very strong versus combo unless Bottomless Pit. Play it in the sideboard if you wish. Scepter of the Fugue imo is just a bad card. I think Oppression is more than enough.
I actually replaced Leyline of the Void in the sideboard with Planar Void. Planar Void is actually strong against opposing Tarmogoyfs and a lot of other stuff. You don't use your graveyard for anything anyways.
Tombstalker is way too slow to help you race combo. You don't fill up the yard very fast since you have no fetchlands and few low cc cards. Your best bet against combo is bringing in Thoughtseize, Chalice of the Void, Oppression and against warrens tokens Engineered Plague in from the sideboard and hope that your discard buys you enough time to let you resolve Oppression or Chalice.
How has the new Liliana been testing?
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote