[Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

[Savo]

Ok, Ant & other combo will remain very bad matchups of course. sometimes i'll drop In the eye of chaos on second turn, but generally I'll simply... loose .

What do you think of it in other matchups? against force of will decks is very similar to city of solitude, but
1) doesn't stop countertop while city basically does
2) slows down non-counter instants like FoF or Cunning wish in the landstill matchup.
Still not worth it? probably not...

Another interesting option that I'd like to test is: mystic remora . Did someone test it?

[Pizzatog]

Parallax Tide and Parallax Wave are going back to their original wordings.

Seeing as we already run seals and aura of silence to remove them, being able to RFG five of an opponent's lands or creatures seems like a powerful effect. Add Opalescence into the mix for some oblivion ring/parallax wave shenanigans...

I think it might be worth trying out.

[GreenOne]

Mmmh.. what's the original wording? How does this thing work out?

[Savo]

Parallax Tide and Parallax Wave are going back to their original wordings.

I think it might be worth trying out.

I don't think so... 2 card combos very mana expensives that don't make you win on their own... moreover the tricks now possible to the re-wording were already possible with stifle effects and nothing interesting came up

[GreenOne]

Can someone explain it? how does it work?

Do you need Opalescence? Do you just need to destroy the Parallax with a disenchant effect?

I'm currently running 3 Seal of Primordium, so I might be interested in this.

[Savo]

Can someone explain it? how does it work?

Do you need Opalescence? Do you just need to destroy the Parallax with a disenchant effect?

I'm currently running 3 Seal of Primordium, so I might be interested in this.

the previous oracle change (different from the card text, and made in the intention to fix it) let you remove the permanents with wave/tide only if, in the resolution of the ability, wave or tide were in play. this way you couldn't put in the stack five "remove from the game target land/creature" and then disenchant wave/tide in response to never make the removed permanents come back. now you can.

[GreenOne]

Thanks.
Well, I guess that, in a format with few, big creatures, this trick is really not worth it (Oblivion Ring is doing almost the same thing for a fewer mana, and can also take care of non-creature cards, and does not need another nchantment to work as a removal).

But I guess people can try the blue Parallax, if they're already on blue.

[Pizzatog]

With Opalescence in play, you can use Parallax Wave to remove itself, letting you recycle it over and over. Opalescence can also double as a win condition while removing opposing blockers.

I don't really think it's competitive in legacy, but way back when I played extended enchantress, I would run Parallax Wave. The problem is that the decks that it's good against are already good matchups.

I'm going to try a straight GW build with no splash, using waves and opalescence and see how that works out.

[Sevryn]

I've been play-testing my list, and something I have been noticing is that other lists seem to be deviating from the primary aim of solitaire: dropping and maintaining a confinement lock. I do not understand the mindset of running only two confinements; I am running four and I feel very comfortable with it.

Drawing confinement instead of tutoring for it is a big deal to me, and running twice the confinements as other lists means I draw it a lot more. Also, multiple confinements are not wasted; unless I'm at low life against a deck packing burn, I can comfortably sack confinement to itself, hit my draw step, and play another confinement from my hand - netting two cards (no discard, draw step).

It also means I am not tutoring with sterling grove as much as other lists, so I have the protection aspect of it more often. Sterling grove is very inefficient tutor if you are gunning for a turn 3-4 solitary, and wastes the protection it offers (really the only threat once you drop confinement).

If someone could elaborate on why most lists are running less than 4 solitary confinement, I would appreciate it.

[Nonex]

I guess most people don't want to see Confinements until there are some Enchantress effects involved. Almost anything should be better than a Confinement if you have to sacrifice it next turn because you can't maintain it yet. That's why I was told, when I started playing this deck, that "The first two Confinements are mandatory, the third one is debatable, and the fourth one is unacceptable".

[Sevryn]

I guess most people don't want to see Confinements until there are some Enchantress effects involved. Almost anything should be better than a Confinement if you have to sacrifice it next turn because you can't maintain it yet. That's why I was told, when I started playing this deck, that "The first two Confinements are mandatory, the third one is debatable, and the fourth one is unacceptable".

I don't really follow the logic I guess. It's not like I'm cutting enchantresses for confinement, it's just less likely I have to lean on sterling grove to find confinement. Enchantress is a really fragile deck without confinement, I think running 4 increases the chances of dropping it in a timely fashion by a significant amount.

EDIT: I'm also running a lone enlightened tutor in addition to 4 groves. I find confinement very reliably, imo.

[GreenOne]

To mantain a confinament you usually gotta have 2 enchantress effects on board (unless you got lucky). By that time you should be able to find one of your 2-3 confinaments and/or a Sterling Grove/Enlightened Tutor, to tutor for your confinament. And seal the deal. Usually confinament is not a great card to have in multiples or in starting hand.

That's the best case scenario.
Worst case scenario is that, for some reason, you can't have one or two Enchantress effects on board. Now your 4x confinament are really the worst card in the deck.

That's why 2 are mandatory, but you can run 3, if you like. I heavily suggest not running 4, though.

[Savo]

I play three confinement and I'm ok with three, although I understand someone that wants to see it always and plays four. Playing two of them is an error: this deck wins ONLY with a confinement in play and the capacity of mantaining it.

I think three is ok because, as already said, you need at least an enchantress in play and the possibility of finding another in short time to set the confinement lock. By that time you should already have seen at least 20/25 cards of your deck. That, plus the four tutors, should mean that you'll (nearly) never miss a confinement when you need it if you play three.

The use of confinement as a fog is ok in some cases, but not optimal: if you find yourself using it as a fog too much, it means that several other enchantments in that situation would be better, so it could be time to cut one.

[Dark Ritual]

The deck can win without confinement if you run words of worship; or they have a slow clock and you "combo out" getting a bunch of 4/4 angel tokens via sigil and if you have 5 4/4 fliers you should be winning unless you're up against burn and you have low life. But this deck is really reliant on confinement to win.

Since aggro control is dominant parallax wave isn't that good; the blue one is iffy because by the time you drop it it could be meaningless. Although parallax wave could go in the SB although I'm not sure on what you would take out for it

[Gibbie_X]

I have a really really REALLY bad premonition. I didn't see anyone discussing the unbanning of Dream Halls in this one yet, and with good reason. I don't think anyone wants to see what this could do in the wrong hands...

A New breed Ver 1.3

Lands
6 Forest
6 Islands
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Islands

Creatures
4 Argothian Enchantess

Non-Enchantment
2 Donate

Enchantments
3 Energy Field
4 In the Eye of Chaos
3 Mystic Remora
2 Illusions of Grandeur
1 Dispersing Orb
3 Dream Halls
4 Elephant Grass
1 Sylvan Library
2 Mirri's Guile
2 Wild Growth
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Exploration

With the addition of the new fetch lands, I like the idea. If this belongs in the other forum, so be it. but if any of you see the possibilities, tell me what I may need to tweak.

P.S. Don't tell anyone about it...

[Vorus]

Dream Halls Enchantress is an interesting concept but I don think it would be any more broken than the deck is already. We don't need Dream Halls because we are already optimized to be able to throw half of our deck into play by turn 5/6. As far as your list goes you are missing Replenish.

Enchantress Dreams

2 Sera's Sanctum
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Windswept Heath
2 Savanah
2 Tropical Island
1 Plains
1 Island
6 Forest

3 Elvish Spirit Guide

4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress Presense

4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth

4 Elephant Grass
2 Solitary Confinement
1 Moat

4 Sterling Grove
3 Dream Halls
1 In the Eye of Chaos
1 Aura of Silence
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Concordant Crossroads

3 Replenish

That would be my back of the envelop try at Enchantress with Dream Halls. The deck should probably win the turn Dream Halls hits the table. I haven't looked around for another kill which does not involve mana but if one exists I would substitute for that. This would make for a fun casual deck (playing a million cards in a turn is fun!) but I don't think it would advance the deck's fundamental turn at all.

However all of that being said if we could find a way to get Dream Halls into play on say turn 3 with any regularity (Show and Tell maybe? You get a Tarmogoyf, I get Dream Halls and kill you?) we would have the shell that could most easily abuse it (and we would get to play out most of our deck in a turn, Ad Nauseum take that!).

In any case, I would fit Replenish in any Enchantress list, it's the most broken card in the deck.

[Otter]

You could use pandaburst as your instant win, though I still don't like the concept of adding Dream Halls to the deck. It is absolutely terrible if you can't get an Enchantress effect to stick and needing them in play isn't exactly a problem that the deck needs more of. We tend to do pretty well if we have one in play and pretty badly if we don't. It doesn't fix that problem and the other problem with the deck is that it stabilizes a bit too slowly at times. Dream Halls is going to speed up your kill, but at 3UU that doesn't do anything on its own, it's not going to speed up your stabilization. I'd rather just use the slots on Confinement #4 and a bunch of Moats, but that doesn't sound very good either.

[Sevryn]

wanted to post my current decklist:


4 wild growth
4 utopia sprawl

4 argothian enchantress
4 enchantress's presence
4 sterling grove
4 solitary confinement
4 elephant grass

1 karmic justice
1 sigil of the empty throne
1 words of war
1 mirri's guile
3 replenish
3 ground seal
1 seal of primordium
1 oblivion ring
1 enlightened tutor

4 windswept heath
5 plains
10 forest


SB:
3 choke
3 rule of law
2 aura of silence
1 karmic justice
1 sacred ground
1 dovescape
2 warmth
1 seal of primordium
1 krosan grip

I'm not running any non-basic lands aside from fetches, as I see no reason to provide a target for wasteland. I'm also not running any red-sources in my land base, and I haven't had any trouble casting words of war (utopia sprawl for red, or discard WoW to confinement and replenish). I think duals might be a crutch for this deck, although sanctum is very nice..

I feel like my list is maybe a little slower to actually win, due to lack of sanctum, exploration, taiga... but it's much better at dropping a turn 3 confinement against heavy pressure, which is what I want from the deck.

Also, I've been quite happy with 4 confinement/4 grove/1 enlightened tutor. ymmv ^^.

[Savo]

I'm not running any non-basic lands aside from fetches, as I see no reason to provide a target for wasteland. I'm also not running any red-sources in my land base, and I haven't had any trouble casting words of war (utopia sprawl for red, or discard WoW to confinement and replenish). I think duals might be a crutch for this deck, although sanctum is very nice..

I feel like my list is maybe a little slower to actually win, due to lack of sanctum, exploration, taiga... but it's much better at dropping a turn 3 confinement against heavy pressure, which is what I want from the deck.

Also, I've been quite happy with 4 confinement/4 grove/1 enlightened tutor. ymmv ^^.

Sanctum to me is a MUST play, for obvious reasons.

On the other hand, not playing exploration effects is not necessarily wrong, but I prefer them to ground seal and so I play them.

If you don't like exploration itself you could consider Gaea's Touch. I like to play it on the second turn: if the opponent has daze, ok great, daze that one and not enchantress effects. If he doesn't, he'll probably never be able to daze anything afterwards. So a common play versus fow/daze decks is: second turn gaea's touch, if it enters it means he doesn't have a daze crack it and play enchantress effect, without loosing time.

[(nameless one)]

has anyone tried Luminarch Ascension in this build?

With Solitary Confinement, i believe it has potential