Looks like I need to sleeve up both versions and see which fits better... Thank you anyways.
This. Between the 4x Swords to Plowshares in the main and the 4x Path to Exile in the board, gobbos shoudln't be too much of a problem.Originally Posted by Waikiki
When I say Fire Ice, obviously I meant Ice... If your RWM is tapped, you can't win lifes... I also think RWM>Kitchen, but I need to test kitchen against Canadian...But remember that the Finks does not pitch to Force of Will.
Which will do ... nothing. Its more a point against the Finks
I'm fine with the monk against Zoo/Burn/Slight. Mainly because they can not trade 1:1 with him, he can compete/race or stall an early goyf ( which is most likely 3/4 when he hits play ) and that he gains much more life with exalted and Rafiq, than the Finks would ever do.
But let us know how it goes. I like the fact, that the Finks have a much easier casting cost, but i still think it is too "defensive" as life gainer.
This is a very good point. If your meta is floated with red men, he's better RWM for sure.
I'm going to include 2 Jittes in side, instead 1 Path to exile and maybe the 2nd Trygon. I need to think it.
How does fink give you live when tapped ?
I guess he means that finks already gave you something even if it became tapped.
Survival him!
Yes, that's my point.
my list that top 4'd at 10/24 Die Hard Games: A Bunch More Duals Tourney!
30 players
you can read the half-assed report here.
also went 5-0 the day after at a local tournament with 16 or 17 players, with the same list but diff sb, playing against some bgr deck(didnt see what it was, killed him to fast..)2-0, ravager affinity 2-0, another bant survival deck 1-0 (he played vials and SSSprites and a slew of bad cards) ran out of time in g2, and zoo 2-0, i scooped to canadian thresh in rd5 so he would make top4 aswell but we played it out for fun and i got it 2-1.
the loyal retainers package took many people by surprise (most didnt even know what it does) and turns sotf into an oops i win card like NO
t1- land, hierarch
t2- land, SotF, use sotf to get akroma
t3- land, pitch akroma get retainers, reanimate akroma, swing 7
t4- cast rafiq, swing 16. you've just dealt 23 dmg by turn 4 from a hand containing 2 cards you run 4 of, and 3 or 4 land drops. the thing is it only takes up two slots compared to 3/4 no + progen, not to mention retainers also can be used as a better witness for kira, rafiq, clique, or what ever other legends you run. akroma is a dead card only if you dont see a survival + 8 mana is not that uncommon to get (she avoids the fuck outa counter balance)
61 cards
non-critters
4x Force of Will
4x Survival of the Fittest
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Brainstorm
3x Ponder
critters
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Rhox War Monk
3x Quasali Pridemage
1x Trygon Predator
1x Loyal Retainers
1x Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1x Rafiq of the Many
1x Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1x Gigapede
1x Squee
1x Wonder
lands
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Windswept Heath
4x Tropical Island
3x Savannah
1x Tundra
1x Forest
1x Island
1x Plains
Side Board
3x Spell Pierce
3x Gaddock Teeg
3x Ravenous Trap
2x Pithing Needle
1x Llawan, Cephalid Empress
1x Kataki, War's Wage
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Painters Servant
Survival of the Fittest
Enchantment
, discard a creature card: Do whatever the fuck you want.
:D
Congrats for the win and for the list, the Loyal Retainers trick seems a real fun! I’m going to try it.
Just a question: the Painter/Iona combo in side was for a particular matchup or just for surprise?
the iona replaces akroma in certain matchups, like against decks with STP or mono colored decks, the painter is in there just to be cute, never pulled of the hard lock yet, its sorta win more. painter is better used with llawan against things like elves that dont play removal.
Survival of the Fittest
Enchantment
:D
What about maindecking Iona over Akroma? It just seems like a better reanimation target in the majority of cases.
YOU'RE GIVING ME A TIME MACHINE IN ORDER TO TREAT MY SLEEP DISORDER.
thought about it, i think i made the right call, i kept akroma in more times than i sided in iona. If you are going for the win, haste makes a huge difference. oh and trample is key.
Survival of the Fittest
Enchantment
:D
If you'd want to pull off a trick like that, why not just play Volrath's Shapeshifter?
Aside from being 20$ more worth the money, I can only see positive effects from this creature compared to Loyal Retainers.
Well, if you use VS, and anything goes to the top of your GY, your Iona/Akroma is gone.
what he said, the only advantage to running VS is its blue for FoW... this isnt FEB, unless im able to stack damage and discard phage LR is better.
find me one creature for VS that will win the game before another card hits the yard, and ill reconsider. remember LR/Akroma takes up 2 slots, if you cut enough stuff to make VS good then you might as well be playing feb.
last time i checked volrath's shapeshifter wasn't a 60$ card...Aside from being 20$ more worth the money, I can only see positive effects from this creature compared to Loyal Retainers.
edit: I'm curious as to what others are running to stop tendrils combo, it's my worst match up, teeg seems to be great against dredge, but against TES or ANT he just feels like a speed bumb they can play around. I'd like to find something other than stifle/new storm trap so i dont have to worry about being chanted/silenced.
I've consider running my own chant/silence/abeyance to cast after they build up their storm count and to also be able to chant them in resp to their chant so they atleast can't win that turn and waste a chant. I just don't know if thats the right call or not.
really wish angel's grace prevented loss of life as well as damage.
Last edited by Moby Dick; 10-27-2009 at 11:27 PM.
Survival of the Fittest
Enchantment
:D
I'm runnning 3 Spellstutter Sprite, +1 Vendillion Clique, +2-3 Spellsnare MD, +2 Teeg, +2 Meddling Mage from the SB.
Sprites turn SotF into a Counterbalnce light.
Ichorid's on the rise here in Madrid, after being almost inexistant for months, now some good players are toying around with it, trying the new Bloodghast guy with pretty good results. That's a matchup I've never faced playing Survival Bant. What do you guys think about that particular matchup?
We tried to copy the Source, but then we realized we're spanish
If my post results dumb or offensive, it's probably just me miserably failing at being ironic in a foreign language
Yeah, this is true, but at least as many arguments could be brought up against the P3K dude as well, stifle by far being the most prominent.
I realize Shapeshifter isn't optimal and I would never play it in this deck. But I guess I still compare the two and find them sort of equal, so I doubt I'd play the other guy either.
Cool you like it though, you obvioulsy did well.
No, my point was that Volrath's shapeshifter is for free, the P3K dude is 20$. I'd like to call the good ol' defense "English is not my mother tongue" for that misunderstanding =)
IMO the akroma combo is overkill since gaddock teeg + wonder most of the time does the same but more since it kicks harder and if you have a rhox online it even gains you a ton of life.
Most time youll be getting this combo with survival anyways so I assume you should allready be in a good position.
@Ichorid I dont see this deck very often in my meta so I do not have a SB for it. If I'd would id look into : Crypt, teeg(for DR) needle (imp/coliseum) and jotun grunt.
im assuming you meant rafiq, not teeg. yes loyal retainers is overkill, just wanted to try it out because i just picked up a loyal retainer after looking for one for a long time. Just wanted to surprise people, and i did. but now that everyone in my area knows i play it, it will most likely come out. I may keep it in the board because iona is still really solid against alot of decks, acting like a 3mana super meddling mage.
rwm will go back down two 2 probably and the sprites may come back in, because zoo seems to have died down here and combo seems to be on the rise.
against dredge teeg is the mvp, i have never lost a game against it when i get a teeg to stick. it turns off so much of thier deck that they really cant overwhelm you unless they mill 3 or 4 bridges and all their therapies and narcomeobas. they make your goyfs big for you , so goyfs become an instant 2-4 turn (depending if you get hierarchs/rafiq or not) clock right on turn 2. i really see dredge as an easy matchup for this deck.
There was this one game i played against another bant survival deck. I was on the draw, told my opp I was keeping a risky hand with a bunch of goyfs, a hierarch, and no lands. Drew my card for the turn, faked being disappointed, went to clean up and discarded my akroma. At this point he thinks I'm screwed and relaxes, thinking he has the game. On my turn two I play land, noble hierarch. He's still thinking he's got this as he played a 2/3 goyf to join his QPM. On my turn 3 i play land then retainers. He asks what retainers does, I explain. He forces retainers, I force his force, I swing for 7 and pass the turn with a 6/6 wall(vigilance is huge). He cant do anything, I proceed to win on turn 5.Most time youll be getting this combo with survival anyways so I assume you should allready be in a good position.
I think i ruined his day, was that a dick move, or is bluffing a part of any card game? :P
Survival of the Fittest
Enchantment
:D
I indeed ment rafiq. Dont know how I wrote down teeg.
Its a nice move to make a bluf but getting a 2card combo with both of them being single in your deck is lucky aswell ;)
Congrats on your finish nonetheless!
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