[Deck] UW(x) Landstill

[Citrus-God]

preacher has more applications then i originally thought but i worry about teching out and getting beat by undertech (mogg fanatic. jitte, etc.) I run into these kind of players all the time and its not only annoying but its scarier to me to risk rather then safely reward as ep does.

But you should never board Preachers in against a deck like Zoo. And Goblins dropped Fanatic a long time ago, so Preacher has some validity there in that match up.

[mossivo1986]

i just checked the top 6 or so gobbos lists on deckcheck including spods list and while i know its not incredibly relivent it is in fact good against landstill and it is actually run in 2 or 3 of those lists. so heres what im saying. regardless of how good these lists of goblins are is it really worth it to play preacher when u completely risk undermining the (ep) strategy in favor of an uninformed pilot?

[whiteshepherdman]

I've been testing the tempo thresh matchup a lot and have found that i prefer playing a 4th EE in the board for game 2 to deal with their mongoose than a 4th wrath since going up to 4 lands and then protecting the wrath from dazes can often time be difficult.

[gustha]

I've been testing the tempo thresh matchup a lot and have found that i prefer playing a 4th EE in the board for game 2 to deal with their mongoose than a 4th wrath since going up to 4 lands and then protecting the wrath from dazes can often time be difficult.

I have found that dropping wraths is worth in any case :) However, your argument does not make sense. Your game ending bombs are all cc4 (wrath, humility, decree, elspeth, disk if you run it): reaching 5-6 lands is mandatory. If you can't in a reasonable amount of time, then you are in trouble. If you can't, EE or not, you lose.

[Bahamuth]

I have found that dropping wraths is worth in any case :) However, your argument does not make sense. Your game ending bombs are all cc4 (wrath, humility, decree, elspeth, disk if you run it): reaching 5-6 lands is mandatory. If you can't in a reasonable amount of time, then you are in trouble. If you can't, EE or not, you lose.

Against Tempo Thresh, that's not true. The way Tempo Thresh beats you, is having a single Mongoose (Goyf sucks so much in this matchup) beat you down while disrupting you and mostly answering your hate. The more removal you have for Mongoose, the higher the chances for you to win. If you manage to remove the Mongoose, chances are Tempo Thresh will have to spend a couple of turns finding a new one. At that point, you're in a very good position.

[whiteshepherdman]

I think what i meant was that EE gives you more time to get the lands that you need.

[Tangle.Wire]

Hey guys i actually don't play Landstill anymore, but i wanted to know why some people play preacher in their sideboard, as shackles or maybe Sower/Control Magic seemed better to me?

[Ectoplasm]

Click one page back and read the discussion :D

[Citrus-God]

I think what i meant was that EE gives you more time to get the lands that you need.

No, the problem with more EEs against Tempo Thresh is that you make their late game Stifles more valuable. This is why I would rather have a 4th WoG rather than a 4th EE. Or better yet, board in Humility. Their cantrips are poor considered to CounterTop Threshes, so you don't have to worry that much about Crypt. And if they're dumb enough to drop Mongeese and trying to squeeze damage through, feel free to aim removal at it now that you have Humility in play.

[rsaunder]

I really think that top is the best weapon against tempo thresh. They basically have to force it or get crushed by your card quality and ability to make land drops. Since they'll be playing the tempo game early, you'll even have your removal online within a turn or two after the drop their first goose. It's not foolproof, but it's the best plan I've seen thus far.

[whiteshepherdman]

ok back to the drawing board then, I'm just trying to mold a sideboard that's strong against my meta but also won't lose to other tier 1 decks, thanks for all your advice.

[Citrus-God]

ok back to the drawing board then, I'm just trying to mold a sideboard that's strong against my meta but also won't lose to other tier 1 decks, thanks for all your advice.

The best advice I can give you is for you to play with what is comfortable for you, but know the power level and efficiency and versatility of your sideboard cards before you even consider putting them in.

@rsaunder: That's a very interesting way of winning against Tempo Thresh. Probably the most effective and efficient way as well.

[mossivo1986]

what a card that improves card quality, consistency in land drops, and also creates unfair gamestates. all four colorless mana so to defy wasteland and stifle color screw. who'd a thunk? nah just kidding but +1 for top strategy.

[Hanni]

I really think that top is the best weapon against tempo thresh. They basically have to force it or get crushed by your card quality and ability to make land drops. Since they'll be playing the tempo game early, you'll even have your removal online within a turn or two after the drop their first goose. It's not foolproof, but it's the best plan I've seen thus far.

I said that a while back, but I don't think anyone heard me. That doubles over for all of the tempo matchups, including Merfolk.

Definitely glad you've made the same connection, though. Yet another reason why I advocate 4 Top's, aside from all the other reasons.

[Dino]

does preacher really help this deck's bad matchups?

[mossivo1986]

no

[Qax]

I got a 3-4 place finish in a 65 person event in Boras, Sweden with this list:

4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to plowshares
3 Sensei's divining Top
4 Counterbalance
4 Force of Will

1 Spell Snare

1 Fire // Ice
1 Lightning Helix

4 Standstill

2 Humility

1 Vedalken Shackles
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Crucible of Worlds

2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Jace Beleren
1 Ajani Vengeant

3 Mishra's Factory
1 Academy Ruins
4 Flooded Strand
1 Plateau
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
2 Tropical Island
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Wasteland
2 Island
1 Plains

Sideboard
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Meddling Mage

2 Firespout
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Krosan Grip

In the swiss i went 5-1-1, Winning vs Pox, Ugw Countertop, Burn, Ledless dredge, Canadian ThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh, draw vs White Stax and losing vs Merfolk. I won the quarter vs a Ugw countertop list, then lost the semi vs a ugr tempo list.

My sideboard strategy was,

vs Zoo

-4 Standstill
-1 Jace Beleren
-1 Crucible of Worlds
-6 Kort

+4 Tarmogoyf
+2 Firespout
+6 Kort

vs Dredge

-4 Standstill
-4 Counterbalance
-1 Crucible of Worlds
-1 Spell Snare
-1 Elspeth Knight-Errant
-1 Lightning Helix
-1 Vedalken Shackles
-1 Jace Beleren
-14 Kort

+2 Tormod's Crypt
+2 Relic of Progenitus
+4 Tarmogoyf
+4 Meddling Mage
+2 Firespout
+14 Kort

vs ANT

-2 Humility
-1 Elspeth Knight-Errant
-1 Ajani Vengeant
-3 Swords to plowshares
-1 Vedalken Shackles
-8 kort

+4 Tarmogoyf
+4 Meddling Mage
+8 kort

vs Merfolk

-4 Standstill
-4 kort

+2 Firespout
+2 Tarmogoyf
+4 kort

vs Tempotresh

-1 Fire // Ice
-1 Lightning Helix
-1 Vedalken Shackles
-1 Standstill
-4 Kort

+2 Relic of Progenitus
+2 Firespout
+4 Kort

vs Goblins

-1 Spell Snare
-4 Standstill
-1 Vedalken Shackles
-6 Kort

+4 Tarmogoyf
+2 Firespout
+6 Kort


I feel I gained a lot versus alot of the harder matchups by adding the counterbalance maindeck. This is my first post here on mtgthesource but I am an avid reader!

[gustha]

Hi and welcome in this thread.

I'll post some considerations when I have more time. Just a flash question: why didn't you just add 3-4 tarmos maindeck if you sided in every match, and some letting humility in? You could've dropped red for green (garruck, tarmo, life from the loam, etc.),or just a 3-1 tropical-volcanic split for a 4th color (EE) and sb firespout.

[Reagens]

I went to a tournament last weekend going 12th on 46 people.
I will spare you all the list because it was a very unsatisfying list with too many cute tricks and too little strategy. Since the cute tricks also failed at doing what they were brought in for there is very little to be said about that. It resembles the 61 card list Konsultant used a while back but with main deck relic of progenitus and a humility.

I played against:
Faeries (win, despite my best efforts to screw up game 2)
Landstill mirror (win, his manabase was very shaky and I managed to take advantage of that)
Merfolk (loss, because he topdecked like hell and I didn’t)
Doomsday combo (win, because I was extremely lucky game 1 and because I saw enough hatred game 2)
GWB loam (loss, because the cuteness of relic main didn’t come out and my manabase was under heavy strain. I lost game 2 because I already lost in in my mind so the game followed suit)
Goblins (win, because humility is just that good)

Conclusions for me were that the newer version of Konsultant’s 60 will be more stable for me as well. Although I won quite a few games on tolaria west I think it’s too much of an investment.

The real problem is how to address the sideboard problem.
I was thinking about the following:
Since I have quite some time to test I would like to develop a new sideboard.
Problem match-ups include:
Merfolk (on the rise again after being annihilated by Zoo in the meta)
Loam (nemesis match-up for me if there ever was one)
Goblins (not the worst match-up but since the quantity of gobs in my meta I don’t want to get caught with my pants down)

Combo (pre-board quite difficult)
Ichorid

My proposed sideboard would consist of 2-offs and maybe 1 1-off or a 3-off (I don’t know yet)
Anyway my first thought:
2 orim's chant (I think this is a VERY strong card against combo)
2 meddling mage (Combo again)
2 path to exile (copied from the master)
2 preacher (I want to test for myself what the fuss is about with this guy)
2 humility (very strong card)
2 engineered plague (tribal, ichorid)
2 relic of progenitus (ichorid, loam)
1 crucible of worlds (loam, merfolk, mirror)
Maybe this is somewhat too geared against aggro?
Zoo will become a very difficult match-up of course, but what to cut?
Ideas are welcome!

[Qax]

The opponents sideboarding plan frequently consists of removing all their creature removal for artifact/enchantment hate and the goyfs suit very nicely then. In the matchups where you need to be the aggressor they add some much needed speed.

Actually I only sided in the tarmogoys a bit less than half of the games, my sideboarding plan doesn't cover some of the matchups I phased.

Dropping red(except for firespout and 4:th EE colour) is actually what I am thinking aswell. Before I started tweaking the list I had alot more red cards in maindeck in which it all made sense but now the red presence is very low. A garruck seems interesting, although double green is a bit harsh.

The only problem with dropping red is dropping the little lifegain I've got in Ajani and Helix and I really feel both those saved me on some occasions.

Hi and welcome in this thread.

I'll post some considerations when I have more time. Just a flash question: why didn't you just add 3-4 tarmos maindeck if you sided in every match, and some letting humility in? You could've dropped red for green (garruck, tarmo, life from the loam, etc.),or just a 3-1 tropical-volcanic split for a 4th color (EE) and sb firespout.