A 2 damage body can make a huge difference, look how often trinket mage gets there.
Why not max out on the fetchlands?? They feed the stalker and look better in a starting hand than waste tainted field and spells. Running finks instead of bob here, so lifeloss is not an issue and you may be able to up the stalker count.Originally Posted by Mono_Thematic
With as much burn+sligh+aggro running around here, every life point is precious hence only 4 fetches + no bob + max finks.
Hi.
I got to try a deck like this a little while ago, and I really liked playing it. A friend helped throw it together pretty quickly before a tourny so it wasn't exactly polished lol, but the deck played very solid.
What does everyone think about a list like this?
***********
Deadguy Ale *
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v1.1
Land (22)
4 waste
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
4 Scrubland
7 Swamp
1 Plains
Creatures (10)
4 Dark Confidant
4 Hypnotic Specter
2 Exalted Angel
Sorcery (22)
4 Dark Ritual
2 Armageddon
4 Vindicate
4 Sinkhole
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Duress
Instant (6)
2 Extirpate
4 Swords to Plowshare
=SIDEBOARD=
4 Leyline the Void
4 Engineered Plague
4 Engineered Explosives
3 Circle of Protection: Red
Last time I'd used shades & bitterblossoms, which weren't quite as helpful, maybe it was just the matchups.. however, I did use extirpate which got a LOT of use and literally saved my arse a few games lol. I also had used factories over wastelands... and didn't run sinkholes either.
This time I'm sorta thinking of going the other way, total mana denial route. This isn't really too far off from most lists I saw actually, but my idea was to make it so they have a tough time playing their spells, get ahead with BOB/Specter, then Armageddon and ride that ftw.
Any thoughts?
I would use Marsh Flats instead of Mires/Deltas. I am also a fan of SDT with Bob. I might cut the Dark Rituals for them because with my experiences with Dark Ritual. They are a great card in the first 2-3 turns, then becomes a dead draw after that. Top does take away from some explosiveness but I would prefer consistency over explosiveness.
run baneslayer angel... its just straight up better than exalted angel in every way.
My take on Bw confidant lists. First I was designing a Vampire deck but I finally got disappointed with the Dark Depth combo, then with bloodghasts (very good against control, but so bad against aggro...). So that I finally kept only the MVP Gatekeeper of Malakir and Vampire Nighthawk. Let's finish talking. I'm here right now:
I want 2 slots of creatures I could sacrifice without much problem. I tried Orzhov Pontiff, but it's too weak in too many MUs. I could run also Raise the Alarm. It's not bad as a surprise blocker in quite a lot of MUs and as jitte carriers. Jotun Grunt might be the obvious choice: after the last attack, I sac it to cabal therapy. Mother of Runes looks also like a nice option. I really can't make my mind on what's best. I even considered Temple Acolyte as good jitte carrier, and a creature I could sacrifice easily to cabal therapy. What's your oppinion about this?// Lands
6 [P2] Swamp (3)
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
2 [AT] Plains (1)
4 [B] Scrubland
2 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
4 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
// Creatures
4 [ZEN] Vampire Nighthawk
4 [ZEN] Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 [ALA] Tidehollow Sculler
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
2 slots
3 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
// Spells
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
2 [ZEN] Grim Discovery
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
4 [AP] Vindicate
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [6E] Perish
SB: 4 [7E] Engineered Plague
SB: 4 [GP] Mortify
SB: 2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 [US] Planar Void
What about mother of the rune ? It can protect dark or tidehollowI want 2 slots of creatures I could sacrifice without much problem. I tried Orzhov Pontiff, but it's too weak in too many MUs. I could run also Raise the Alarm. It's not bad as a surprise blocker in quite a lot of MUs and as jitte carriers. Jotun Grunt might be the obvious choice: after the last attack, I sac it to cabal therapy. Mother of Runes looks also like a nice option. I really can't make my mind on what's best. I even considered Temple Acolyte as good jitte carrier, and a creature I could sacrifice easily to cabal therapy. What's your oppinion about this?
Yep, Mother of Runes or some persisting creature come to mind. I would add a lone Volrath's Stronghold too.
I tested a lot Volrath and it was more a problem of not having B than a use in long games. I'm not even decided for plains#2.
Finks is maybe another option (but it's a bit expensive). Yesterday I tried a bit Jotun but I've never drawn it, so difficult to say what I would have liked to see.
The deck does not have a lot of good turn 2 play:
- Tidehollow
- DC
- Top (play and activate it)
It odesn't even make it good againt spell snare since I play a lot of 2CC that I don't want by turn 2 (jitte, Grim Discovery, Gatekeeper of Malakir and Jotun if I play it).
Other ideas in these 2 slots:
- Withered Wretch
- Nantuko Shade
Maybe 1 of each, as they are bad in multiple, very mana extensive and both face Tarmogoyf with not much of a problem.
I like your setup of utilizing Therapy and Jitte. It looks good. As to turn two - I would say a decent and realistic play would be Therapy, Swords -if you ran it. I'm sure you have tested and rejected Swords, but are you sure it doesnt fit? Maybe cut back on Vindicates?
How does Grim Discovery feel? Is it stellar or decent or?
I think your list looks a bit heavy on the 3cc + Elspeth, especially running 21 lands. Maybe cut 2 of the 3cc critters, and thereby make room for both full Swords and Vindicates? This of course collides with your desire of getting more creatures in the mix. Raise the Alarm, or if your manabase could support it, Spectral Procession, seems good.
Edit: What about Bitterblossom?
5 SwampThresh
4 WastelandThresh
4 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
4 Tombstalker
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Dark Confidant
4 Dark Ritual
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Torach
4 Sinkhole
4 Vindicate
3 Sensei's Divining Top
Oh my god! A Decklist!
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Jotun Grunt is definitely what I needed. It's good against aggro/sligh, being a tempo factor (it's a 4/4 wall during 2 turns at least). The time I find and play my best cards (Nighthawk, jitte and Elspeth). It's good against control, because it prevents graveyard recursion (or at least it makes it more difficult). It can also end a game pretty fast with Elspeth on the board.// Lands
6 [P2] Swamp (3)
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
2 [AT] Plains (1)
4 [B] Scrubland
2 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
4 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
// Creatures
4 [ZEN] Vampire Nighthawk
4 [ZEN] Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 [ALA] Tidehollow Sculler
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
2 [CS] Jötun Grunt
3 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
// Spells
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
2 [ZEN] Grim Discovery
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
4 [AP] Vindicate
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [6E] Perish
SB: 4 [7E] Engineered Plague
SB: 4 [GP] Mortify
SB: 2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 [US] Planar Void
Moreover, it's ok with cabal therapy (because I can sacrifice it after the last strike) and with Grim Discovery (since I can resurrect it once it's dead).
I'm really enjoying this list. It played a LOT of anti-creatures and it has really nice weapons to beat control (discard + Vindicate + Elspeth). The MU against combo are clearly its weakness. I've already experienced several times that 12 targetted discards were not enough. I would need some SB solutions, trinisphere and canonist are probably the best options, but as my meta has almost no combo deck, I prefer to keep it as it is.
You are almost exclusively running cc2 creatures. Would not Vial be an interesting addition?
Would even make a green-splash (2 Bayous - 4 Goyfs) supportable.
With 12 discard spells and 2 Grim Discovery, I don't really fear counterspells on creatures and Gatekeeper is definitely not combo with vial. Moreover, my expensive spells are noncreature, meaning that vial could only replace active spells (and not lands). Definitely not a vial deck.
@Maverick: How are you finding Vampire Nighthawk as compares to Hypnotic Spectre? I ended up dropping Hippie due to fragility in my burn heavy meta, but since I like new shiny things Nighthawk caught my eye as a possible replacement.
-Mono
Hello,
greeting all.
As I have said in “Introduce yourself here”, I play this deck for about four years. With it I went to Eurovino4 of Milan (tournament of 300 players around), more sympathy for it, because I was really convinced to win, in fact I had already almost finished the Eva Green deck building: in Italy long is the conviction that Deadguy is no longer competitive now.
Instead, although the tournament has gone wrong, I was very surprised by the performance of the deck. I lost because I haven’t assembled Tormod’s crypt, & I chose to use the version Bw with nantuko shade, instead of Bwg version, with Tarmogoyf. The nantuko shade is a useful card only around the fifth turn, therefore it’s unable to deal all new fast beaters of the format.
For this reason I decided to try again to develop this project, but since in Italy it does not receive consideration, I hope to find in you the most interested speakers.
I ask only one thing: you don’t tell me to give up hypnotic specter & sinkhole, without a very good argument, becouse for this reason I decided to get away by Brian Kowal deck-list (top 8 to Chicago GP).
In summary, the deck builds its cards on four areas:
- Mana-denial (sinkhole, vindicate, wasteland)
- Hand-denial (hymn to tourach, thoughtseize, hypnotic specter)
- Board control (swords to plowshares, vindicate, hypnotic specter)
- Manabase.
For this reason it has a bad top deck, becouse it will always statistical average of one good card on four, however the deck remedy it, because, for same average, I will be sure to drow at least 2-3 game-breaker spells in ten cards of first three turns of game.
In this card advantage strategy, specter & sinkhole have the merit, for various reasons, to have a constant trend in the deck even in advanced stage of the game; I have tried many lists without specter & sinkhole, but the deck has proven to be unable to compete with the strategies of metagame's card advantage.
Actually I had already taken countermeasures to improve the drow-engine in mid-late game:
1_ Sensei’s divining top: there is not much to say about this card.
2_ A Nassif-style sideboard: this kind of sideboard can add to 7-8 cards in each match up. More particulary Deadguy can maximize this side to get 2 benefits:
One quality, because it improves the drow-engine.
One in time optical, becouse it adds one or two bombs to be used in early-mid game.
After Eurovino 4, the last point concerned the addition of Tarmogoyf. Even this case I don’t think I have to many explanations.
This is my deck-list:
MANA: 21 slots
4 marsh flats
3 bloodstained mire
3 swamp
1 plains
3 scrubland
3 bayou
4 wasteland
BEATERS: 13 slots
4 dark confidant
4 tarmogoyf
4 hypnotic specter
1 tombstalker
SPELLS: 26 slots
1 engineered explosives
4 thoughtseize
4 dark ritual
3 swords to plowshares
2 sensei’s divining top
4 hymn to tourach
4 sinkhole
4 vindicate
SIDEBOARD: 15 slots
2 engineered plague
2 infest
2 extirpate
1 perish
1 duress
1 tomb of urami
1 enlightened tutor
1 bitterblossom
1 tormod’s crypt
1 circle of protection: red
1 umezawa’s jitte
1 trinisphere/sadistic sacrament
I don't think have to much explanation, in the sense that many choices are intuitive, like having 2 extirpate, 1 enlightened tutor, 1 tormod’s crypt vs Ichorid or 1 duress, 2 extirpate, 1 enlightened tutor, 1 trinisphere vs Ad nauseam. I explain the most important choices (and relevant doubts):
- Infest: Engineered Plague needs a support in the Merfolks match up. Infest is also very useful against Kira and Magus of the moon.
- Tomb of Urami: is one of the most important cards of my side, for that I believe we need a minimum of interaction with the manabase. It function is to set the manabase vs. time-deck (also vs. Stax and Loam) with 22 slots, allowing one hand to circumvent the manadenial to Stifle & Wasteland, and on the other side to death cards like daze (with mana more advancing in each round), spell snare (with dropp 1 and 3), possibly it get out tombstalker from Relic of Progenitus. Urami is not necessary, but often have a chance to activate the demon in response to a fetch, with ritual, or maintain 2 or 3 lands between the hand and the top of the library. I consider it the best mana-fixer available, but now I use a tricolor list & I ask if basic swamp is better.
- Bitterblossom: I need another hate to support Tarmogoyf vs aggro.deck. Some time I used Jotun Grunt, but its slow collides with a Nassif-style sideboard.
I was thinking of using it vs Landstill, Dragon Stompy, Stax & Zoo, but for now I am not able to test it.
- Trinisphere: I need a new combo-hate, some time I used thorn of amethyst, it worked very well, but it was the failure to raise the converted mana cost of Vindicate. Sadistic sacrament does not exploits enlightened tutor, but I haven’t tested it.
Last edited by Morgothar; 11-08-2009 at 08:22 AM.
@Morgothar:
Your deck looks solid to me so I'm just going to throw out some possible substitutions that you could try...
Mirri's Guile instead of Sensei's Divining Top
(-) its easier to disrupt
(+) less mana investment
Gargoyle Castle instead of Tomb of Urami
(-) smaller creature, more mana to activate, doesn't make B, doesn't fill GY for tombstalker or tarmogoyf
(+) doesn't wipe out your lands
Thats all I got...
I would agree with mirri's guile for most decks, but he runs a decent amount of fetches and Top is infinately better once the SB comes in as it can get the tutored object for on that turn.
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